#1
http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2016/01/28/oklahoma_anti_gay_bills_on_conversion_therapy_and_blood_testing_are_crazy.html

Several red states are trying to fight against marriage equality by passing discriminatory laws against homosexuals. “Aversion therapy” is banned in many states, but Oklahoma is dead set on allowing parents to try to electroshock their kids into being straight.

"HB 1598 explicitly states that mental health counselors may engage in “sexual orientation change efforts” with any patient—including those under 18 who are forced into the “therapy” by their parents. The bill also consciously refrains from outlawing* the use of “aversion therapy” to change patients’ orientation, then helpfully outlines what such treatments might involve:

“Aversion therapy” means any counseling by a mental health provider that exposes or asks a client or patient to undergo physical pain, such as electroshock or electroconvulsive therapy, touch therapy, pornography exposure or vomit-induction therapy, in order to change sexual behaviors or gender-identity expressions and/or to eliminate or reduce sexual or romantic attractions or feelings toward individuals of the same sex.”*



good thing i live in Texas
thoughts?
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I'm looking for professional bongo-ists and triangle-ists to make a Progressive Technical Brutal Death Metal band
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(Don't even ask what it means)


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#2
RIP brad
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#4
Quote by ErikLensherr
RIP brad

LOL

...modes and scales are still useless.


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Voted for Patron Çıldırdı.

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#5
Aren't there several studies already that prove aversive conditioning just doesn't work at all.
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We all have the rights to be mad

So does you
#6
Quote by Victory2134 at #33801956
Aren't there several studies already that prove aversive conditioning just doesn't work at all.



Scientific laws do not apply in red states.
#7
Quote by ErikLensherr at #33801946
RIP brad

hahaha
___

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she was saying things like... do you want to netflix and chill but just the chill part...too bad she'll never know that I only like the Netflix part...
#10
Quote by Victory2134 at #33801956
Aren't there several studies already that prove aversive conditioning just doesn't work at all.

I doubt it, because (1) it's an extension of the well validated principle of classical conditioning and (2) a study that could outright disprove, or even provide evidence for/against, aversive conditioning for homosexuality in humans isn't easy to get past an ethics committee. Aversive conditioning is still accepted as valid in more neutral experiments, and AFAIK studies haven't proven it doesn't work- in fact, IIRC, it's strongly supported that it works.

Here's the one I read last semester:

Delgado, M. R., Labouliere, C. D., & Phelps, E. A. (2006). Fear of losing money? Aversive conditioning with secondary reinforcers. Social Cognitive and Affective Neuroscience, 1(3), 250-259.
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#11
Quote by k.lainad
good thing i live in Texas
thoughts?
I came to post similar thoughts (was gonna say "Boy, sure makes us look better.") but now I feel defeated.
#12
Pornography exposure? Lofuckingl
Originally posted by Joshua Garcia
I just come here to dick around.
And maybe occasionally wave my dick around.


My D is major
#13
Quote by chrismendiola
I doubt it, because (1) it's an extension of the well validated principle of classical conditioning and (2) a study that could outright disprove, or even provide evidence for/against, aversive conditioning for homosexuality in humans isn't easy to get past an ethics committee. Aversive conditioning is still accepted as valid in more neutral experiments, and AFAIK studies haven't proven it doesn't work- in fact, IIRC, it's strongly supported that it works.

Here's the one I read last semester:

Delgado, M. R., Labouliere, C. D., & Phelps, E. A. (2006). Fear of losing money? Aversive conditioning with secondary reinforcers. Social Cognitive and Affective Neuroscience, 1(3), 250-259.


The APA has come out strongly against aversion/conversion/reparative therapy as both unethical and ineffective and comes down harshly on APA-affiliated clinicians who engage in it.

http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/resources/therapeutic-response.pdf
#17
Quote by MeGaDeth2314
Scientific laws do not apply in red states.

Yup
BOOM-SHAKALAKALAKA-BOOM-SHAKALAKUNGA
#18
Quote by Aeolian Harmony at #33802020
The APA has come out strongly against aversion/conversion/reparative therapy as both unethical and ineffective and comes down harshly on APA-affiliated clinicians who engage in it.

http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/resources/therapeutic-response.pdf

Way to make me eat shit. I'm gonna read this later.

EDIT: I read a bit of it now and it doesn't seem like I was 100% wrong.

None of the recent research (1999–2007) meets methodological standards that permit conclusions regarding efficacy or safety. The few high-quality studies of SOCE conducted recently are qualitative (e.g., Beckstead & Morrow, 2004; Ponticelli, 1999; Wolkomir, 2001) and aid in an understanding of the population that undergoes sexual orientation change but do not provide the kind of information needed for definitive answers to questions of safety and efficacy. Given the limited amount of methodologically sound research, claims that recent SOCE is effective are not supported. We concluded that the early high-quality evidence is the best basis for predicting what would be the outcome of valid interventions. These studies show that enduring change to an individual’s sexual orientation is uncommon.


To me, it reads like few studies are scientifically sound/not experiments but the best guess they have from the research that are is that it isn't effective.
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Last edited by chrismendiola at Jan 29, 2016,
#19
Quote by chrismendiola
Way to make me eat shit. I'm gonna read this later.


Wait that's not how the internet works.
#20
Quote by chrismendiola
Way to make me eat shit. I'm gonna read this later.

You have to flame him and discredit his source. You're doing it wrong.
Quote by Carmel
I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

ಠ_ಠ
#21
Quote by Paroxysm
I'm still waiting for the sex-with-hot-women to cure homosexuality...

I'll say I'm gay if it means I get to have sex with hot women over and over to cure it.
#22
How can this be legal? Homosexuality is not a mental disease.
Quote by Carmel
I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

ಠ_ಠ
#23
Quote by Neo Evil11
How can this be legal? Homosexuality is not a mental disease.

States can do what they want regardless when it comes to healthcare. There are states where its legal for parents to use faith healing as a defense when they refuse to take their dying child to a hospital.
#24
There's a difference between not taking a cure to a real disease, and giving a horrible cure for a fake disease.

One is freedom, the other is torture.
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I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

ಠ_ಠ
#25
Quote by Neo Evil11
There's a difference between not taking a cure to a real disease, and giving a horrible cure for a fake disease.

One is freedom, the other is torture.

If you're child is dying and you decide to just let them die, that's not freedom. I've heard stories of children with broken legs who eventually went gangrenous because parents refuse to help their child.
#26
Quote by WaterGod
If you're child is dying and you decide to just let them die, that's not freedom. I've heard stories of children with broken legs who eventually went gangrenous because parents refuse to help their child.

I am not advocating for it. But once people invoke god they can get away with a lot. But at least in the broken leg case, they didn't break the legs themselves...
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I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

ಠ_ಠ
#29
Quote by seanlang01
In Oklahoma, no one can hear you scream.

Is that due to the pounding techno coming from the gay bars?
#30
Quote by ultimate-slash
Is that due to the pounding techno coming from the gay bars?

No, it's because it's a barren wasteland where your nearest neighbor is 5 miles away.
BOOM-SHAKALAKALAKA-BOOM-SHAKALAKUNGA
#32
Quote by Weaponized
Oklahomos got it rough


Oklahomans, period, have it rough. You have no idea the incompetence of the political leaders in that state unless you've lived there for awhile.

When I was a teenager a news story broke that 77 county commissioners in Oklahoma were indicted for corruption (bribes, kickbacks, etc). Guess how many counties are in Oklahoma? 77.
#33
Quote by Neo Evil11
You have to flame him and discredit his source. You're doing it wrong.


#34
Quote by RAB11 at #33802475
Wait that's not how the internet works.

Quote by Neo Evil11 at #33802481
You have to flame him and discredit his source. You're doing it wrong.

See: Edit.
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#35
Quote by Paroxysm
I'm still waiting for the sex-with-hot-women to cure homosexuality...

That exists, it's just only available to homosexuals who can't talk because their mouths are always full of dong.
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#36
Quote by chrismendiola
Way to make me eat shit. I'm gonna read this later.

EDIT: I read a bit of it now and it doesn't seem like I was 100% wrong.

To me, it reads like few studies are scientifically sound/not experiments but the best guess they have from the research that are is that it isn't effective.


You weren't wrong, you just didn't know.

The APA Ethics Committee decided that those "therapies" are traumatizing as well as ineffective (no surprise). Similarly, that they can have iatrogenic effects trying to cure something that isn't pathological (e.g., gay/lesbian kids end up with PTSD from when they were kidnapped away to straight camp and made to watch porn or something).

Also keep in mind that there's no DSM-5/ICD-10 classification for homosexuality and that in these situations, it's more about using therapeutic techniques to enforce social/moral norms. So the APA is really against its use, though some hick pastor might try it out. There's still that issue with the term "therapist" being unregulated.
#37
Quote by Aeolian Harmony
You weren't wrong, you just didn't know.

The APA Ethics Committee decided that those "therapies" are traumatizing as well as ineffective (no surprise). Similarly, that they can have iatrogenic effects trying to cure something that isn't pathological (e.g., gay/lesbian kids end up with PTSD from when they were kidnapped away to straight camp and made to watch porn or something).

Also keep in mind that there's no DSM-5/ICD-10 classification for homosexuality and that in these situations, it's more about using therapeutic techniques to enforce social/moral norms. So the APA is really against its use, though some hick pastor might try it out. There's still that issue with the term "therapist" being unregulated.

From what little I've read, it says there can be no definitive conclusion made on whether or not SOCE works. Just that from the few studies that can be considered high quality testing it, the best guess they can make is that it doesn't.

I get that they discourage SOCE as a whole, but I'm not so sure there's any indication as to a conclusive answer to the efficacy of a treatment.

I'll read more of the article later.
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