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#1
First post here so hello guys
I want to go back to everyday guitar practice after work. I realized I don't play as much as I'd like because my old amp - Marshall MG15 with reverb - is atrocious. I mean, overdrive is so bad that I don't even turn it on nowadays.
So I'd like to spend 400 or maybe 500 bucks to buy something new.
Since I live in small apartment and have elder neighbours, I really want to have 'good' sound with minimum volume. I rarely turn my s**tty MG15 volume over 9 o'clock position. Are those two things not exclusive? I want to have tight, 80s thrash/OSDM distortion: anything from Coroner and Artillery to Death and Pestilence. But most of all, tight, piercing THRASH sound.
I don;t know too much about equipment, but some people advise me to check Yamaha THR10X, Peavey Vypyr or Blackstar ID Core. Are those good suggestions?
#2
If you don't mind going used you'd have a lot of options that would all pulverize your MG.

Marshall Dsl 40 combo
Peavey 6505+ combo
Peavey JSX/XXX II combo
Hell, even a Peavey Valveking would destroy an MG for thrash.

Get an overdrive pedal for any of those above. That will help especially at low volumes. Don't listen to any bullshit that says you can't get good tone at bedroom volumes out of a tube amp. They merely sound better the louder you crank them ( and don't kid yourself, you WILL crank it eventually, and it'll be awesome) . But they still beat solid state at whisper volumes.
Atmospheric dark metal w/ black and death metal influences:
(My Soundcloud page):

Pestilential Flood
Last edited by KailM at Jan 29, 2016,
#4
What those guys said. And I know a lot of people are wary about going used; trust me, it's better to go used on a tube amp and risk the rare chance that one'll break because they're usually fairly simple/cheap to repair. And that's much better than getting a significantly worse amp for a lot more
#5
So I have a Peavey 5150, Mesa Dual Rectifier Roadster, and the Vypyr.

They all have volume knobs that work well. The 5150 and Mesa sound good at low volumes, but. . .

How low of volumes are we talking here? Like silent or whisper? For that low of a volume the best tone I get is from amp simulations on the computer with nice monitoring headphones. I can not wake a baby beside me with headphones on while having awesome tones and have my ears ring when I'm finished.

For amp sims check out Peavey ReValver and my interface is a $20 Rocksmith cable with Audio-Technica ATH-M50X headphones.
Guitars:
Jackson Kelly KE3 - MIJ (Distortion/Jazz)
Jackson DKMGT Dinky (EMG 81/85)
ESP E-II Eclipse Custom (JB/'59)
ESP LTD EC-1001FR (EMG 81/60)
Fender MIM Strat

Amps:
Mesa/Boogie Dual Rectifier Roadster 212
Laney IronHeart IRT-Studio
Peavey Vypyr 30
Peavey ReValver Amp Sims
TOOOO many T.C. Electronic Pedals. . .
#6
Yea at whisper volume, analog setups usually dont sound very good. The highs dont show and the lows are thick / have no energy. At talking volume (or pretty much the volume that you can still sing un-mic'd over the guitar amp), tube amps can certainly sound really good, especially hi gain with a boost. I agree tube amps sound better louder; however you need the space for it. If youre outdoors or in a venue, loud sounds great- but in a small room with louds of reflections, loud tends to just sound harsh and be very reflective and not pleasant
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#9
Oldschool Thrash and Death Metal calls for something Marshally or any vintage style high gain oriented amp to my tastes. Blackstar might actually work really well here but they are WAY overpriced new. But check out if you can find a used Jet City JCA2212c for cheap. Add in a tubescreamer style overdrive to boost it and you should be golden.

Here is the head version of the amp in action with and without boost, although through a cab with much better speaker than what the combo comes with stock (might want to change it at some point, hint hint )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbfLsUmXprY

*edit* linked the wrong video.

ESP LTD F-50 + Tonezone
Cort EVL-Z4 + X2N
Cort EVL-K47B

Marshall Valvestate 8100
Randall RG1503
Bugera 333
Peavey Rockmaster preamp

Line6 Pod X3
Last edited by MaaZeus at Jan 30, 2016,
#10
Thanks for all replies, you guys are really helpful!
I sometimes practice with 'whisper' volumes, but most of the time it's 'talk' volume - meaning I can have a conversation over the guitar playing, but all notes are audible and can be heard in other room. (poor description, I know)
Where can I read more about amp simulations, are they good investment? I might use them before money for real amp comes around.
And back to amps, I'm sure all Peaveys and Marshall DSL would kick ass compared to MG. But which would sound least 'modern'? I mean, David Sanchez from Havok uses Peavey XXXii head and his sound is too 'new' to my years, almost like 2000s metalcore (although riffs are great). I've heard many times that most thrash in the 80s was recorded on JCM800, but it's definitely out of my reach.
In other words, how would you describe distortion on XXX combo, DSL, 6505, or 5150? What would work best in home environment? Thanks in advance.
#11
The DSL would get a better oldschool tone out of those 4.

The 6505 and 5150 are the exact same amp with a different name (EVH owns the rights to the 5150 name) and are pretty modern sounding

The XXX could do it, but you would not use the lead channel, the Crunch channel is the more old school flavor channel.

The Jet City suggestion is also worth looking into.
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2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
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Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#12
Quote by thi4f
Where can I read more about amp simulations, are they good investment? I might use them before money for real amp comes around.


Here and here.

The good news? You can get very good results with free stuff. No need to pay for retail amp sims when you can get good results with Lepou's and TSE's stuff and free IRs. Hell, even the retail amp sims offer demo versions which can yield good results as well as long as you're just using them for practicing. Just check the links above for more info.

Now, you still need to invest on a good interface. You have recommendations on interfaces on one of the links above, I would personally recommend a Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 or a Mackie Onyx Blackjack if you decide to go the amp sims route.
Last edited by DanyFS at Jan 30, 2016,
#13
Quote by thi4f
Thanks for all replies, you guys are really helpful!
I sometimes practice with 'whisper' volumes, but most of the time it's 'talk' volume - meaning I can have a conversation over the guitar playing, but all notes are audible and can be heard in other room. (poor description, I know)
Where can I read more about amp simulations, are they good investment? I might use them before money for real amp comes around.
And back to amps, I'm sure all Peaveys and Marshall DSL would kick ass compared to MG. But which would sound least 'modern'? I mean, David Sanchez from Havok uses Peavey XXXii head and his sound is too 'new' to my years, almost like 2000s metalcore (although riffs are great). I've heard many times that most thrash in the 80s was recorded on JCM800, but it's definitely out of my reach.
In other words, how would you describe distortion on XXX combo, DSL, 6505, or 5150? What would work best in home environment? Thanks in advance.



The DSL would probably be best for your needs -- it's got very much of an upper-mids classic high-gain Marshall sound. Perfect for thrash, especially with a boost pedal.

As for 5150s/6505s -- the lead channels are pretty modern, but if you run an EQ pedal in their loops you can dial that "modern-ness" right out. I do a cut to the 500hz slider while boosting the upper and lower mids with my MXR 10-band in the loop, and that gets rid of the 'metalcore' sound right away. I can get an absolutely brutal death metal/black metal tone out of it that way.

But the reason I recommended looking into the 5150/6505 series is for their rhythm/clean channels. The rhythm channel with the crunch boost on my 6505+ is definitely awesome for old-school thrash such as Slayer, older Metallica, etc. It's got a more "Marshally" vibe and flavor and sounds damned good for that genre. The gain knob on that channel is a lot more usable too; as you can go from pretty much bluesy crunch all the way back to death-metal territories if you dime it.

Anyway though, all of them are so much better than your MG you will probably cry the first time you play one.
Atmospheric dark metal w/ black and death metal influences:
(My Soundcloud page):

Pestilential Flood
Last edited by KailM at Jan 30, 2016,
#14
I was after the same types of tones as you, and I ended up with the Jet City. I like
It quite a bit. The DSL would be a good option as long as it's an older one. The 6505 is modern sounding to me, but it pulls off an old school Thrash tone just fine IMO
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#15
Quote by thi4f
Thanks for all replies, you guys are really helpful!
I sometimes practice with 'whisper' volumes, What would work best in home environment? Thanks in advance.


I know we've got a lot of tube addicts here, who jump on these weekly threads (a modest search would have netted you a hundred or more of the same thread) waving 6505s and the like, but I fought the same fight and ended up with a modeler.

I paid about $100 (it's been a while) for a used Pod XT, another $100 for a good set of headphones (AKG 240s), and I bought a pair of KRK Rokit 8 monitors (used). The result is that when I have to practice at "whisper" volumes, I can actually blast out my eardrums with the headphones. And when I have more freedom to turn it up a bit, those monitors have a wider range (more bottom end if you want it and the ability to fill a room.
#16
Quote by Robbgnarly
The DSL would get a better oldschool tone out of those 4.

The 6505 and 5150 are the exact same amp with a different name (EVH owns the rights to the 5150 name) and are pretty modern sounding

The XXX could do it, but you would not use the lead channel, the Crunch channel is the more old school flavor channel.

The Jet City suggestion is also worth looking into.


In case of XXX even the lead channel is old school but taken to extremes. Where 6505 is a ballsy modern thundering monster XXX is a compressed chainsaw, a tone lot of OSDM fans like. It is pretty much Suffocation tone in a box (not surprisingly they actually used this amp at some point) and without a boost. And as said, Crunch channel with boost pedal is perfect for Thrash.

ESP LTD F-50 + Tonezone
Cort EVL-Z4 + X2N
Cort EVL-K47B

Marshall Valvestate 8100
Randall RG1503
Bugera 333
Peavey Rockmaster preamp

Line6 Pod X3
#17
Quote by dspellman
I know we've got a lot of tube addicts here, who jump on these weekly threads (a modest search would have netted you a hundred or more of the same thread) waving 6505s and the like, but I fought the same fight and ended up with a modeler.

I paid about $100 (it's been a while) for a used Pod XT, another $100 for a good set of headphones (AKG 240s), and I bought a pair of KRK Rokit 8 monitors (used). The result is that when I have to practice at "whisper" volumes, I can actually blast out my eardrums with the headphones. And when I have more freedom to turn it up a bit, those monitors have a wider range (more bottom end if you want it and the ability to fill a room.


i do have Pod X3 and to be honest, its not that good when it comes to really high gain. It has this fake digital tone and a fizz that is hard to dial out without neutering the treble bite. It might be me and lack of skill to dial it but i'd take any of my amps and turn them down any day over the pod, which is reduced to be my traveling equipment i use to practice during holiday trips. Any of my amps sound good both silent and loud with very little tinkering. Now, digital modeling may have come a long way since the early days of Pods but you usually have to pay for it.

ESP LTD F-50 + Tonezone
Cort EVL-Z4 + X2N
Cort EVL-K47B

Marshall Valvestate 8100
Randall RG1503
Bugera 333
Peavey Rockmaster preamp

Line6 Pod X3
#18
Quote by MaaZeus
i do have Pod X3 and to be honest, its not that good when it comes to really high gain. It has this fake digital tone and a fizz that is hard to dial out without neutering the treble bite.


Very typical statement when I mention Pods. Took me a while to figure that out. And eventually, I didn't -- someone showed me the solution. I've got it written down somewhere, but I'm using the HD series these days, and Meambobbo's Tone Guide has those covered in .pdf form.

I'm sure you're aware that folks like Dino Cazares have been using Pods (including the XT) to record entire albums that feature high gain. That said, modelers remain a great solution to the TS's issue of practice at volumes that won't have the neighbors knocking on his door holding torches and pitchforks.
#19
So now I understand there are three paths mentioned above:
- amp simulation (software) + interface + headphones
- modeler (i.e. Pod) + headphones/monitors (i.e. KRK Rokit 8)
- combos (i.e. DSL, XXX, 6505, Jet City)
Much to think about. I must do some research because I'm sure I won't play with any band whatsoever - I'm looking purely for bedroom practice gear. Which can be done in several ways, as described above.
Lots of good suggestions, thanks so much, and keep 'em coming!
#20
Quote by thi4f
So now I understand there are three paths mentioned above:
- amp simulation (software) + interface + headphones
- modeler (i.e. Pod) + headphones/monitors (i.e. KRK Rokit 8)
- combos (i.e. DSL, XXX, 6505, Jet City)
Much to think about. I must do some research because I'm sure I won't play with any band whatsoever - I'm looking purely for bedroom practice gear. Which can be done in several ways, as described above.
Lots of good suggestions, thanks so much, and keep 'em coming!


And remember, none of those options are mutually exclusive. Its good to have choices when you get bored of one equipment and want change things a bit. Despite my problems with a Pod it is versatile piece of equipment that is good to have. Standalone amp modeling or multiFX tool for your real amps it covers a lot of ground. Plus XT and X3 bean models are cheap used.

ESP LTD F-50 + Tonezone
Cort EVL-Z4 + X2N
Cort EVL-K47B

Marshall Valvestate 8100
Randall RG1503
Bugera 333
Peavey Rockmaster preamp

Line6 Pod X3
#21
What speakers would you recommend in my situation for amp simulations? I think I might try free software and, who knows, maybe there are some nice thrash distortions available. I just need to know what types and models of speakers would fit nicely.
#22
Quote by thi4f
What speakers would you recommend in my situation for amp simulations? I think I might try free software and, who knows, maybe there are some nice thrash distortions available. I just need to know what types and models of speakers would fit nicely.


A good pair of headphones or monitors would be the best bet. If you are in an untreated room or need to be quiet, headphones would be your best bet in my opinion.

Cheaper headphones can give nice results for practicing and just playing at home. If you're willing to have a little home studio and do some mixing, then you would have to spend a bit more.
#25
Since it's my thread I don't see anything wrong with a lil' bit necromancy I purchased Presonus Audiobox and had some fun with VSTs. Couple months later I also invested in Yamaha THR10X to have an actual practice amp. So here is my question:

how can I improve its sound to get more thrashy tone?

I usually crank up mids and highs, keep bass and gain relatively low and play on bridge pickup (TB4). It's nice, cutting and ok for thrash, but I'd like to get even sharper sound. Of course it's also a matter of my skills and palm muting, but outside of that, what would be a good solution? Any particular effect to get that 80s piercing tone, a la Megadeth? Would Tube Screamer do the trick? Or maybe I should stick with VSTs and PC software dedicated to Yamaha THR and just get those sounds on my headphones (don't have studio monitors)?
Thanks!
#26
Definetly tubescreamer or a cheap clone. Alternatively Boss SD1 or clone for bit different tone. In both cases set the Level/volume max, distortion off and put it into front of your amplifier. That gives your palm muted thrash rhythm that aggressive pick attack tone.

ESP LTD F-50 + Tonezone
Cort EVL-Z4 + X2N
Cort EVL-K47B

Marshall Valvestate 8100
Randall RG1503
Bugera 333
Peavey Rockmaster preamp

Line6 Pod X3
#27
I actually use my 6505+ head with very good success at "bedroom" volumes. Loud enough to have some fun, but not piss off my wife with the door closed.

I've actually been trying to figure out a good 1-5 watt amp that can do it all, but not having the best success. If ALL you're looking for is a Thrash tone, and don't really care about cleans, the Randall RD1h has got the crunch and only gets to a volume where you can shout and still hear someone. There's also the Laney IRT15h ... it's a 15 watt with a switch to go to what they call "<1watt". I was actually skeptical about getting a 1 watt amp until I actually heard one. Done well, they're awesome bedroom/apartment amps.

Actually the first time I heard one, it was a Laney IRT15. He had it cranked, it was really thrashy and LOUD. I was like "That's awesome, ok, let me hear the 1 watt setting." He said "That is the 1 watt setting .... "
Last edited by Xander_X at Feb 17, 2017,
#28
Xander_X I picked up the Peavey 6505MH this week as a bedroom playing alternate to my XXX. I can't get over how loud it is on the 1 watt setting. And with the speaker defeat switch, and a headphone jack, what more could you need? Direct outs? It's got those too. XLR and USB. My only complaint would be the shared EQ for both channels. Otherwise an amazing amp.
Last edited by n3cr0p57 at Feb 18, 2017,
#29
I think i'd want an amp that was actually all tube if it was advertised as a tube amp..but if you like it...
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#31
Quote by n3cr0p57
AcousticMirror That's why I chose the 6505MH. All tube goodness.


Nope. That circuit is impossible with 3 preamp tubes.

The 5150 lbx has 5.

The mh has at least a solid state pi
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#32
He right. The 6505mh is not 100% tube. But that doesn't make it a bad amp.

Just gotta watch. The older ones have over heating issues
#33
Took some serious digging to find that the Phase Inverter is a transistor. Is that what we are talking about? Why did it take so much digging? Probably because it's a non-issue with a high gain Metal amp. It's definitely a non-issue for me. Doesn't seem to be a vital component in achieiving the legendary 5150/6505 tone. The whole issue just seems so nit-picky when you consider it has a tube pre-amp and a tube power amp. How many amps on the market today don't have a single transistor anywhere inside them? The 6505MH gets me closer to my ideal tone than my XXX ever could.
And that's the bottom line.

Back on topic, I've always been a Peavey fanboy, So my top 3 choices for thrashy bedroom amps would be:
1) Peavey 6505MH (despite it not being made entirely of 100% recycled vacuum tubes)
2) Peavey Bandit 112 (I've owed 2 of these and regret selling both)
3) Peavey Vyper (as a last resort, too many on board effects for my liking)
#34
Quote by n3cr0p57
Took some serious digging to find that the Phase Inverter is a transistor. Is that what we are talking about? Why did it take so much digging? Probably because it's a non-issue with a high gain Metal amp. It's definitely a non-issue for me. Doesn't seem to be a vital component in achieiving the legendary 5150/6505 tone. The whole issue just seems so nit-picky when you consider it has a tube pre-amp and a tube power amp. How many amps on the market today don't have a single transistor anywhere inside them? The 6505MH gets me closer to my ideal tone than my XXX ever could.
And that's the bottom line.

Back on topic, I've always been a Peavey fanboy, So my top 3 choices for thrashy bedroom amps would be:
1) Peavey 6505MH (despite it not being made entirely of 100% recycled vacuum tubes)
2) Peavey Bandit 112 (I've owed 2 of these and regret selling both)
3) Peavey Vyper (as a last resort, too many on board effects for my liking)


I think FX Loop is also solid state but that definetly is not an issue. Tube FX loop is a waste of tube in my opinion. However even on preamp driven high gain amps PI is important and switching tubes there does have a noticeable effect on tone. But yeah, that does not mean SS PI is bad. Probably the worst it does is take away an option in fine tuning your sound.

But you like 6505MH over XXX? That I find surprising. What aspects you liked/disliked between those two? Interested because I am very suspicious of all lunchbox amps, so far I'd always take the big one even for bedroom practice.

ESP LTD F-50 + Tonezone
Cort EVL-Z4 + X2N
Cort EVL-K47B

Marshall Valvestate 8100
Randall RG1503
Bugera 333
Peavey Rockmaster preamp

Line6 Pod X3
Last edited by MaaZeus at Feb 19, 2017,
#35
Quote by n3cr0p57
Took some serious digging to find that the Phase Inverter is a transistor. Is that what we are talking about? Why did it take so much digging? Probably because it's a non-issue with a high gain Metal amp. It's definitely a non-issue for me. Doesn't seem to be a vital component in achieiving the legendary 5150/6505 tone. The whole issue just seems so nit-picky when you consider it has a tube pre-amp and a tube power amp. How many amps on the market today don't have a single transistor anywhere inside them? The 6505MH gets me closer to my ideal tone than my XXX ever could.
And that's the bottom line.

Back on topic, I've always been a Peavey fanboy, So my top 3 choices for thrashy bedroom amps would be:
1) Peavey 6505MH (despite it not being made entirely of 100% recycled vacuum tubes)
2) Peavey Bandit 112 (I've owed 2 of these and regret selling both)
3) Peavey Vyper (as a last resort, too many on board effects for my liking)


it's not really a tube power amp if the pi is a transistor. the pi is part of the power amp.

but if you like it. it's all good. I just think the 5150 lbx sounds better in almost every way.
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#36
Not sure if OP is still looking for a big amp, but here goes.

I find the 6505 a little too much for bedroom, and the tubes are expensive, contrary to what was said about them being cheap to maintain and repair. It's all relative.

I'd recommend a solidstate or hybrid Blackstar which maybe does a better job at low volumes. Kinda depends whether or not you wanna use said amp for gigs, in which case the 6505 has a bit more of a case.

MG15 was one of my first amps, I can agree it's pretty awful, but it has its uses being portable. Well... no, even that doesn't redeem it. I wrote it a scathing review on here, and apparently my feelings were a little too strong as it was never published.
#37
Quote by MaaZeus
In case of XXX even the lead channel is old school but taken to extremes. Where 6505 is a ballsy modern thundering monster XXX is a compressed chainsaw, a tone lot of OSDM fans like. It is pretty much Suffocation tone in a box (not surprisingly they actually used this amp at some point) and without a boost. And as said, Crunch channel with boost pedal is perfect for Thrash.


Pretty much this. Nothing wrong with the XXX, it has great distortion, just seems to be lacking the low end growl that rhe 6505 is known for.
#38
Hi, there are some new options opening before me so I wanted to ask for your advice.

I have opportunity to buy Marshall Valvestate 8100 for cheap. It looks rugged but should be fine inside. I love Schuldiner tone so that's where I got the idea - but is this amp also good for less distorted thrash sound?

Secondly, I don't have cab yet so what would you suggest? I think 4x12 is too much for practice in the apartment.

Last thing, many guys mentioned crunch channel with tubescreamer. Should I get ts9 or the 808? I guess the first one should do the trick in old school metal, but what do I know.
#39
thi4f

If you can get it for cheap, go for it. Its not really a "good" amp (its quite thin sounding, as you can tell from Chucks sound. Feel free to crank the bass knob) but it does have a slight Marshall thing going and does work for Thrash. The single tube inside may need changing though.

Regarding which TS, it does not matter. The difference between them is minimal. Hell, I say ignore official TS and get a cheaper clone. See a green pedal labeled as overdrive? 9/10 times it is a tubescreamer straight clone or slight modification of it. Like Joyo Vintage Overdrive (clone) or Bad Monkey (modified).

ESP LTD F-50 + Tonezone
Cort EVL-Z4 + X2N
Cort EVL-K47B

Marshall Valvestate 8100
Randall RG1503
Bugera 333
Peavey Rockmaster preamp

Line6 Pod X3
#40
I seem to be in a pretty similar situation as you dude, except I literally just bought a Marshall MG thinking I was in the clear because the Google reviews were so positive, and instantly regretted it. I also want a bedroom practice amp that gets that 80s Thrash/OSDM sound, although after I return the MG my budget's going to be in the $200-$300 range so I may just have to go for a Peavey Vypyr. Sorry I can't contribute much as I'm far from an expert, but I wish you well man. I'll be sure to watch this thread for amp suggestions too.
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