#1
I'm getting a JCA22H soon, and I'll want to upgrade the stock tubes before long. On The Tube Store, they don't have Guitar Amp Packages for Jet City. The amp uses 5 12AX7s and 2 EL84s. Is there any reason why I can't just order this package?
http://www.thetubestore.com/Shop-by-Amp/Mesa-Boogie-Mini-Rectifier-Twenty-Five-Amp/Mesa-Boogie-Mini-Rectifier-Twenty-Five-Value-Package

Tung Sols and JJs are exactly the brands I want, by the way.
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#2
I'd grab a 5751 for v1 and an extra 12AT7 to test out (probably in the phase inverter), in addition to the 5 12AX7s and the EL84s
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#3
I'm down for experimenting. Just curious. What kind of differences would that make?
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#4
Less gain, different tone. Put it this way, the 12ax7s are 100% gain, the 5751 is about 90%, and the 12AT7 is about 70%.

Edit: and that is just for the given stage in the amp, a 12at7 won't make your amp have 70% of its total gain.
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Last edited by Kevin Saale at Feb 4, 2016,
#5
I'll see how the preamp breaks up and decide whether or not to go that route after I get a chance to test it.
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#6
You are kind of over paying. You can go all JJ (or not buy over-margin complement sets) and pay around $70 USD, minus tax and shipping. Even doing the exact same set on TubeDepot individually is less money, too. $90. TubeDepot does not charge for matching, either. Get a matched pair of the EL84's.

V1 generally has the most impact on your tone. So if anything maybe try the TS or Mullard in there or some NOS stuff if you want to go that route.
Last edited by Will Lane at Feb 4, 2016,
#7
When I put that set individually in my cart earlier, it totaled at right under $140. I picked the Tung-Sols because I was seeing a lot of recommendations of those over JJ 12AX7s.

Edit- Just noticed you said Tube Depot. I'll check on there.
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Last edited by Haha, Crackhead at Feb 4, 2016,
#8
You can get regular JJ 12AX7's for $10 from tube depot.

pick up four of JJ12AX7, a JJ12AT7 and a JJ5751. and if you want one more, get a tung-sol 12AX7. you will have a lot of flexibility, and lots of extras (regarding the stock preamp tubes in the JCA).

for EL84's i have typically gone JJ, BUT i have heard of few issues with them a while ago. mainly isolated, at least i didn't see a ton on it, but you may want to weigh that.
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#9
I'll keep that in mind. It'll probably be a while before I swap out the tubes. I'm definitely gonna get an Avatar cab for it first. Just gonna be running it through a Valve Jr. cab until then.
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#10
Quote by Haha, Crackhead
I'll keep that in mind. It'll probably be a while before I swap out the tubes. I'm definitely gonna get an Avatar cab for it first. Just gonna be running it through a Valve Jr. cab until then.


[for the sake of converstaion and further advice] what speakers are you going with?

i had one of those ages ago, and it did not like V30's or K85's (same as K100's). legends are supposedly better.

and also, i wouldn't bother swapping your power amp tubes right away. its good to have extras (as with everything), but they don't make as much of an audible difference as preamp tubes and speakers do.
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#11
I've tried both JJ's and Tungsol's in my JCA50H, and found that the JJ 12ax7's sounded really, really muddy in that amp (I like them in other amps). To me, the Tungsol's sounded a lot better, and gave the amp more presence in a band setting.

I haven't tried the 22H specifically, but I know my 50H sounds great with V30's. I had a cab with the V12's in it, and it did sound good, but I just like the way the amp seems to cut through better with the V30's. Just my opinion...
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#12
^That's one of the reasons posters on other forums were saying to go with Tungsols. I really prefer a tighter low end. I can't stand tube rectifiers in a higher gain setting.

Quote by trashedlostfdup
[for the sake of converstaion and further advice] what speakers are you going with?

i had one of those ages ago, and it did not like V30's or K85's (same as K100's). legends are supposedly better.

and also, i wouldn't bother swapping your power amp tubes right away. its good to have extras (as with everything), but they don't make as much of an audible difference as preamp tubes and speakers do.


I'm hoping to get a 2x12 with a Governor and Man O' War. They don't offer Man O' Wars on their site right now, but I'll e-mail them and see if they can do it. If not, I'll probably just get 2 Governors. I've listened to several comparisons, and that's the combination that sounds the best to me. I don't really like V30s in any amp. I figure I'll go ahead and grab the power tubes at the same time just for the sake of it. The amp's for home use, so I'll rarely ever get to crank it. Probably makes the power tube swap almost pointless. But, you never know. I may wind up playing with a few people down the road.
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#13
Quote by red.guitar
I've tried both JJ's and Tungsol's in my JCA50H, and found that the JJ 12ax7's sounded really, really muddy in that amp (I like them in other amps). To me, the Tungsol's sounded a lot better, and gave the amp more presence in a band setting.

I haven't tried the 22H specifically, but I know my 50H sounds great with V30's. I had a cab with the V12's in it, and it did sound good, but I just like the way the amp seems to cut through better with the V30's. Just my opinion...


i had a JCA50h for a few days, but i hated it with V30's... lol. i tried both my mesa and orange cabs. i liked it with the two emi legends i had. i don't remember what tubes were in there, but i just couldn't gel with it. that is just me though.

i liked the 2112rc i had much better than the JCA50 i had, yes they were different, but i found more usable tones (for me) in the 2112rc. i don't recall what tubes were in it.

as far as JJ's being dark, yeah they kind of are, yeah. i have JJ's in dark amps though, and i like it.
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#14
Quote by trashedlostfdup
i had a JCA50h for a few days, but i hated it with V30's... lol. i tried both my mesa and orange cabs. i liked it with the two emi legends i had. i don't remember what tubes were in there, but i just couldn't gel with it. that is just me though.

i liked the 2112rc i had much better than the JCA50 i had, yes they were different, but i found more usable tones (for me) in the 2112rc. i don't recall what tubes were in it.

as far as JJ's being dark, yeah they kind of are, yeah. i have JJ's in dark amps though, and i like it.


To each their own

I'm normally a fan of JJ's, but I really just thought that they were god awful in the JCA. Swapping from the stock to them, it was honestly like someone had thrown a thick blanket over my cab. The amp just sounded dull and dead. It was one of the first times I'd ever messed with tubes, and I honestly thought I might have broken my amp The JJ's sound a lot better sitting in my 5150
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#15
Quote by red.guitar
To each their own

I'm normally a fan of JJ's, but I really just thought that they were god awful in the JCA. Swapping from the stock to them, it was honestly like someone had thrown a thick blanket over my cab. The amp just sounded dull and dead. It was one of the first times I'd ever messed with tubes, and I honestly thought I might have broken my amp The JJ's sound a lot better sitting in my 5150


i don't know what i have in my 5150. i haven't changed them. lol. i have only had it for a month though.

my rockerverb sounded really good with a few tung-sols in. i didnt like all JJ's as much. and i REALLY didn't like all tung sols etiher... lol.

i am generally a JJ fan though, but applications do vary.

______

I, personally would get a variety of tubes (as extras) so you can swap and see what you like. i have a little bit of everything. and that is what i would do if i were to start my tube collection again.
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#16
Quote by trashedlostfdup
i don't know what i have in my 5150. i haven't changed them. lol. i have only had it for a month though.

my rockerverb sounded really good with a few tung-sols in. i didnt like all JJ's as much. and i REALLY didn't like all tung sols etiher... lol.

i am generally a JJ fan though, but applications do vary.

______

I, personally would get a variety of tubes (as extras) so you can swap and see what you like. i have a little bit of everything. and that is what i would do if i were to start my tube collection again.



Good call with having a little variety of spares on hand...Thats how I usually guage what might work better/best in an amp.

You have the RV MK1 right? I'm really digging the new EH 12ax7's & 6V6 I threw in mine a few months back. I found that Tungsol's worked pretty well, but where a little too bright, and the JJ's seemed too dark. The EH's seem to sit right in the middle; to my ears anyways. Which 5150 do you have?
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Peavey Ultra 112
Jet City JCA50H
66' Bassman
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#17
Quote by red.guitar
Good call with having a little variety of spares on hand...Thats how I usually guage what might work better/best in an amp.

You have the RV MK1 right? I'm really digging the new EH 12ax7's & 6V6 I threw in mine a few months back. I found that Tungsol's worked pretty well, but where a little too bright, and the JJ's seemed too dark. The EH's seem to sit right in the middle; to my ears anyways. Which 5150 do you have?


yea, the 50mki. i haven't thought of trying EH's in there, God knows i probably have 30 of them that i have pulled out of other amps... lol. i have JJ6V6's in there now. i haven't tried any different. the 50mki is my favorite rockerverb. period. it is just nasty and mean compared to the EL34 models.

i have the origional 5150 head. i forgot what the call it, but it is an earlier version. i think its the one after the block letters (or maybe it is a block letter???) i don't remember... lol.

you and i have great tastes in amps
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#18
OP SORRY FOR THE THREADJACK.

Fank, PM me or get at me in the WTLT thread or something. i don't want his thread to be derailed too far.
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#19
It's all good. I pretty much got what I needed out of the thread. I'll check back on it in case anyone has any further input, though. I'm always open to suggestions around the board, as I'm very inexperienced in experimenting with amps.
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#20
Quote by Haha, Crackhead
It's all good. I pretty much got what I needed out of the thread. I'll check back on it in case anyone has any further input, though. I'm always open to suggestions around the board, as I'm very inexperienced in experimenting with amps.


i pretty much just advise to get a variety of tubes.

here is what i keep on hand for me that are new as far as gain: 12AX7's, 12AT7's, 5751's, and a 12AU7.

as far as brands, a combination of JJ's, tung sol's, mullard's, and maybe sovtek's would give you a ton of variety.
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#21
Also I think the JCA22H is fixed bias. So when you change the power tubes you will have to manually adjust the bias. Look up how to do that (and also double-check my info).

Often V2 is a cathode follower position, although I am not sure where it would be on your amp or if it has a CF. New Sensor Tubes (TungSol RI, Mullard RI, some others) do not like CF positions and will die quickly which is why I suggest JJ for most other positions except for V1.
Last edited by Will Lane at Feb 4, 2016,
#22
^I'll make sure to check on that before I mess with the tubes. And I'll definitely keep that info about V2 at heart.

Quote by trashedlostfdup
i pretty much just advise to get a variety of tubes.

here is what i keep on hand for me that are new as far as gain: 12AX7's, 12AT7's, 5751's, and a 12AU7.

as far as brands, a combination of JJ's, tung sol's, mullard's, and maybe sovtek's would give you a ton of variety.


Yeah, I'm not sure I really need that much variety. I just want something that sounds good to me. I don't really want to spend all that money and time looking for the perfect tube complements.

Edit - I think I've set my sights on what I want to try out.
V1 - Tungsol 12AX7
V2 - Tungsol 12AX7
V3 - JJ5751
V4 - JJ12AX7
V5 - JJ12AT7

And 2 JJEL84s

The Cathode Follower is split between V3 and V4, if you're wondering.
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Last edited by Haha, Crackhead at Feb 5, 2016,
#23
crap, i ordered the JJ set lol.
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#24
just to make you even more confused on the speaker front i liked emi v12s best (i haven't tried governors or man o wars) but i also liked v30s. that was with the 50 watt head, though, i haven't tried the 20.
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#25
With this specific amp, I've only found one clip with a V30. It was a comparison video between that and the stock speaker that comes with the combo version. It definitely did sound better, but it didn't compare to the couple of videos I found running Governors with this amp (or the other videos with Governors through different amps). Obviously, Youtube isn't gonna do justice in comparing sound with all the added compression, but it just seems like my best bet. Governors, Man O Wars, and the combination are popular choices on other boards with players that use higher gain amps. If it's good enough for them, it's probably maybe hopefully good enough for me. I'm still open to suggestion, though. I have a ways to go before I really need to make a final decision.
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#26
does anyone know if its a must to bias the tubes when switching them out for this amp?
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#28
thanks, ill have to figure out how to do that or have someone do it.
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