#1
Howdy chaps and chappettes of Ultimate-Guitar. Haven't posted on here in ages but I've returned to see if anyone can help solve my problem.

Never been much of a gear customiser but I recently got a 1998 Korean made Epiphone les paul custom for £175. Few scratches here and there and there's sadly a small chip in the back of the headstock but other than that bargain!

The tuner's aren't really up to much though and I'd like to change them. Annoyingly it seems the tuners screw holes are at the side rather than at the bottom of each tuner so finding the right ones to change to is seeming to be a problem. Ideally I'd love to keep the tulip/keystone shape but failing that grovers would be great... If I could find a set that had the screw holes on the side and not facing downwards. I'd prefer not to have to drill any new holes in the headstock if possible.

Anyone had this problem changing tuners on 90's korean epiphones? If so what did you do and what tuners would you recommend? Not wanting to skimp out either, they need to be gold too

Thanks in advance
1980 Gibson Silverburst Les Paul Custom
Gretsch G5445T Electromatic Double Jet
De Armond MT-75
1978 Aria Pro 2 Les Paul Standard (Lawsuit)

Orange Rockerverb 100 Head
Orange Rocker 30 Head
Orange 4x12 Cab
Vampower 4x12 Cab
Ampeg 2x10 Cab


Ain't telling you my pedals!
#2
grover, schaller, gotoh or sperzel trim-lok tuners are 4 choices

so the big concern is make sure your tuners are the right size holes if you have grommets like on vintage les pauls you need to keep it vintage sizing which is approximately 9.14mm

if you see nuts and bushings like on modern guitars that understand it isn't the 50s any more you're in luck as the industry standard is 10mm.

some ideas, it's a lot i know but compare prices and see what jumps out at you.

grover 18:1 rotomatics , regular works excellent , locking has some pros but many will agree they aren't end game, If your guitar is vintage go with the vintage grovers, the last two customs had 10mm rotomatics on it if i remember right.

schaller has a few such as the M6, M6 locking or da vinci

sperzel - trim-lok seems to be the most popular, they lock and cut excessive slack off the strings.

the only new one to really catch my eye was graphtech which goes to a 40:1 gear ratio. Gear ratio is precision by the way not stability. As in it'll take 40 twists of the tuners button (part you twist) to go 360 degrees around. I haven't tried gotoh myself but some guys I know swear by them.

also a new nut does wonders like a graphtech tusq or bone nut to improve tuning stability. Saddles play an important role too. There are a ton of ways to get better tuning stabillity, when I was 16 I thought it was just tuners but you'd be surprised. Some even boast the way you wrap strings around the post makes a difference. That I do believe but yeah hope I could help.
#3
What is the exact problem with the tuners? You might only need to tighten the screws that go through the handle into the head proper to stiffen them up a bit and put on a new nut to fix any tuning stability problems.

This way no new holes and you still keep the tulips.
My Gear:
Ibanez Jet King 2
Ibanez RGDIX7 MPB
Ibanez GRG 7221
OLP John Petrucci
Epiphone Les Paul Custom Pro
Squier Stratocaster (modified)
Harley Benton CLD-41S (Acoustic)

Peavey Vypyr 30.

Boss CH-1 Super Chorus
Boss DD-3 Digital Delay
Boss FRV-1 '63 Fender Reverb
#4
Thanks for all that info Tallwood,very helpful. I think I may have found a set of grovers that would do the job but finding them in the UK is seeming to be a bit of a bitch so far, found chrome ones but need the buggers in gold!

I THINK these would be right minus being the wrong colour.
http://www.thomann.de/gb/grover_406c_mini_locking_rotomatics_c.htm?ref=search_rslt_grover+406_139482_0

That was my first thing to try Nightmare, it seems that on two of the tuners what looks like plastic washers have worn away, they seem to be poking all the way through and are quite loose now, they didn't seem that great before I took all the strings off to be honest so I reckon it'd be worth upgrading the tuners regardless. Like I said I'd like to keep the tulips but push come to shove I could live with a grover shape, I used to have a chinese version of the same guitar when I was younger (part ex'ed to help pay for my Gibson) and it had grovers on it. I like the tulip shape because it just resembles my Gibson way better but I could live without them if need be! Thanks for your input
1980 Gibson Silverburst Les Paul Custom
Gretsch G5445T Electromatic Double Jet
De Armond MT-75
1978 Aria Pro 2 Les Paul Standard (Lawsuit)

Orange Rockerverb 100 Head
Orange Rocker 30 Head
Orange 4x12 Cab
Vampower 4x12 Cab
Ampeg 2x10 Cab


Ain't telling you my pedals!
#5
Yeah that seems like they are completely paggered, I will have a look around for you though.
My Gear:
Ibanez Jet King 2
Ibanez RGDIX7 MPB
Ibanez GRG 7221
OLP John Petrucci
Epiphone Les Paul Custom Pro
Squier Stratocaster (modified)
Harley Benton CLD-41S (Acoustic)

Peavey Vypyr 30.

Boss CH-1 Super Chorus
Boss DD-3 Digital Delay
Boss FRV-1 '63 Fender Reverb
#6
legend! appreciate it bud, these seem like they could be the boys but I'm not sure the "mini" part of it means they aren't right. Right colour and the angled part for the screw is right too though

http://www.hotroxuk.com/grover-mini-locking-rotomatics-gold-205g.html
1980 Gibson Silverburst Les Paul Custom
Gretsch G5445T Electromatic Double Jet
De Armond MT-75
1978 Aria Pro 2 Les Paul Standard (Lawsuit)

Orange Rockerverb 100 Head
Orange Rocker 30 Head
Orange 4x12 Cab
Vampower 4x12 Cab
Ampeg 2x10 Cab


Ain't telling you my pedals!
#7
Well the screw hole seems to be in the right place, I think the mini part just refers to the size of the bit you twist, I just compared the proportions in the picture to the Grovers on my Les Paul and that certainly seems to be the case .

25/64 inches is 9.9219 mm according to google (pesky Americans still using ancient measurements lol)

Measure up your holes on your headstock and see if they match, if they do I think they will be your best bet for now. I don't think there will be an issue since Epiphone has been using Grovers on their Custom Les Pauls for as long as I can remember.

Edit: Actually the whole unit seems to be smaller, the screw holes should be correct however, just need to double check the post size.
My Gear:
Ibanez Jet King 2
Ibanez RGDIX7 MPB
Ibanez GRG 7221
OLP John Petrucci
Epiphone Les Paul Custom Pro
Squier Stratocaster (modified)
Harley Benton CLD-41S (Acoustic)

Peavey Vypyr 30.

Boss CH-1 Super Chorus
Boss DD-3 Digital Delay
Boss FRV-1 '63 Fender Reverb
Last edited by N1ghtmar3C1n3ma at Feb 13, 2016,
#8
Quote by qotsakyuss
legend! appreciate it bud, these seem like they could be the boys but I'm not sure the "mini" part of it means they aren't right. Right colour and the angled part for the screw is right too though

http://www.hotroxuk.com/grover-mini-locking-rotomatics-gold-205g.html

You don't want mini tuners, they are smaller for headstocks with less space on them. get a regular set of tuners. Damn Grovers are stupid prices over there, they are $40 a set here

Wilkinson makes a nice tuner and they are cheaper in the UK than the US brands, deff worth a look
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#9
Found these too but I've had to email the site to ask if they definitely have the screw holes at an angle as out of the two photos shows the opposite! Pricey but they look like they'd do a great job with the locking part so I'd be happy to pay it if they're right. They need to be more careful with their website photos!

http://www.andertons.co.uk/guitar-parts/pid19192/cid708/grover-rotogrip-locking-machine-heads-3-a-side-in-gold.asp

Thoughts assuming they have the right angle for the screws?
1980 Gibson Silverburst Les Paul Custom
Gretsch G5445T Electromatic Double Jet
De Armond MT-75
1978 Aria Pro 2 Les Paul Standard (Lawsuit)

Orange Rockerverb 100 Head
Orange Rocker 30 Head
Orange 4x12 Cab
Vampower 4x12 Cab
Ampeg 2x10 Cab


Ain't telling you my pedals!
#10
Taken the tuners off now too and measured the hole width and they seem to be 11mm wide
1980 Gibson Silverburst Les Paul Custom
Gretsch G5445T Electromatic Double Jet
De Armond MT-75
1978 Aria Pro 2 Les Paul Standard (Lawsuit)

Orange Rockerverb 100 Head
Orange Rocker 30 Head
Orange 4x12 Cab
Vampower 4x12 Cab
Ampeg 2x10 Cab


Ain't telling you my pedals!
#11
you will use modern 10mm post tuners.

Those you linked from Andertons do not have the set screw at an angle, they are straight down. here they are on the Grover site
www.grotro.com/Grover/2154a941-6e5d-484f-a28c-2640779e7038/LOCKING-ROTOMATICS/Roto-Grip-Locking-Rotomatics-502-Series

They will work, you will just have to drill a small pilot hole for the set screw, it is not a big deal.

The Gotoh makes a great tuner also
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#12
Modern 10mm are basically the size that covers older guitars is it? Sorry if I'm a bit noobish on this, 13 years of playing and I've never really customised guitars before!

I'd ideally rather not have to put any new holes in the back of the headstock if I can help i, does seem like barely anyone makes tuners with that angle in them now though, kinda annoying, i'm sure there's plenty of people out there in he same predicament I am.

I shall have a look into Gotoh now too! Thanks for your help Robb
1980 Gibson Silverburst Les Paul Custom
Gretsch G5445T Electromatic Double Jet
De Armond MT-75
1978 Aria Pro 2 Les Paul Standard (Lawsuit)

Orange Rockerverb 100 Head
Orange Rocker 30 Head
Orange 4x12 Cab
Vampower 4x12 Cab
Ampeg 2x10 Cab


Ain't telling you my pedals!
#13
I think trapezoid tuners are the ones with smaller tuner hole radius, almost all electric guitar are 10. If the plastic washers are worn away, unscrew the button, and borrow a plastic washer from another guitar (your just checking size) if the small plastic washers fit.. If they do.. You can buy an affordable set of tuners and make them doner parts.. You can always try the hardware store and look for small teflon washers (you will need to widen the washer radius to make it fit, If you want to forgo the process of making replacement tuner washer.. Buy Grover Rotomatic 18:1 gear ratio, select the tuner model that is suitable to existing screw hole pattern.. Tallwood13, hit the nail on the brands you can check out, I would add that since it is an upgrade, get locking tuners.. Anderton's in UK seems to have good service, as well as thomann in DE.

I forgot to say, if you have a small music instruments store near you, maybe you can ask if they have extra tuner washers.. They usually have a bunch of parts laying around from upgrade projects. Good luck with your search.
I have Washburn guitars 'Maverick Series' and bass 'Bantam Series' and a few pedals and amps, but man I wish to have more patience and drive practicing my playing, if it's equal to the modding itch, then I'm golden.
Last edited by psp742 at Feb 14, 2016,
#14
Quote by qotsakyuss
Modern 10mm are basically the size that covers older guitars is it? Sorry if I'm a bit noobish on this, 13 years of playing and I've never really customised guitars before!

I'd ideally rather not have to put any new holes in the back of the headstock if I can help i, does seem like barely anyone makes tuners with that angle in them now though, kinda annoying, i'm sure there's plenty of people out there in he same predicament I am.

I shall have a look into Gotoh now too! Thanks for your help Robb

Modern 10mm tuners have been around for a long time and use a nut to fasten them to the headstock, but there are smaller style tuners that have a press in bushing to keep the tuner stable, these are called vintage style tuners.


Schaller also makes a great tuning machine.
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#15
Quote by Robbgnarly
You don't want mini tuners, they are smaller for headstocks with less space on them. get a regular set of tuners. Damn Grovers are stupid prices over there, they are $40 a set here

Wilkinson makes a nice tuner and they are cheaper in the UK than the US brands, deff worth a look


Everything to do with guitars is more expensive here unfortunately. I think the only exception is Marshall amps since they are made here.

+1 on the Wilkinson hardware, I have a bridge on my Stratocaster from them and it's pretty damn good, especially since it was about 30 quid.
My Gear:
Ibanez Jet King 2
Ibanez RGDIX7 MPB
Ibanez GRG 7221
OLP John Petrucci
Epiphone Les Paul Custom Pro
Squier Stratocaster (modified)
Harley Benton CLD-41S (Acoustic)

Peavey Vypyr 30.

Boss CH-1 Super Chorus
Boss DD-3 Digital Delay
Boss FRV-1 '63 Fender Reverb
#16
You may be able to replace the tuner buttons on your new Grovers with tulip buttons; it seems to be a regular thing with the LP crowd. When you get settled on new tuners, I can check on MLP to see where they're getting them.
#17
What do you guys reckon on these? doesn't look like there's any screw holes on them at all, I guess that would still leave me with empty holes though.

http://www.thomann.de/gb/sperzel_mechanik_33_trimlok_gd.htm?ref=search_rslt_10mm+tuners_104814_7

I'm also guessing if I wasn't as bothered about having to drill new holes and having some on the back of the hesdstock then these would be the boys

http://www.thomann.de/gb/grover_m102g_rotomatic.htm

Yeah I'd imagine that'd be the same with a lot of LP players Dspellman! I think they just look odd with anything else, I can get on with the normal grover shape if need be though, just way prefer the tulips.
1980 Gibson Silverburst Les Paul Custom
Gretsch G5445T Electromatic Double Jet
De Armond MT-75
1978 Aria Pro 2 Les Paul Standard (Lawsuit)

Orange Rockerverb 100 Head
Orange Rocker 30 Head
Orange 4x12 Cab
Vampower 4x12 Cab
Ampeg 2x10 Cab


Ain't telling you my pedals!
#18
The Sperzels still require a hole, but they use a pin (you can see it in the pictures) instead of a screw. Those would be harder for an amateur to install since there would be less room for error regarding the hole location.

I'd go with the Grovers or similar design.
#19
Oh, and I wouldn't worry about drilling new holes, you can barely see old ones anyhow and it's not like you're working on a rare and expensive instrument

I speak from experience in this case, I've swapped a few tuners on various guitars.