#1
Guys I believe I would enjoy a tube amp, I never had one in my life (so heartrending right).. but I want very many things at once
things I'd like to have:
Good tube sound at apartment low volumes
Good cooperation with my Pod (need an fx loop? -I am definitely a non-tech personl)
Good take on pedals (I can get rid of the pod in the long run, I guess a few good quality pedals would do my thing)
It must simply sound brilliant on its own as well, clean and overdriven.. I am not a heavy effects guy actually... but presently the pod is a fact of my life
I am drawn to Laney cubs and Blackstar ht's....
I think the most important question would be the one about the fx loop....
thanks good people of the forum I know this is a great place
Last edited by highwaystar30 at Feb 25, 2016,
#2
i haven't tried either but are you aware the blackstars are hybrid? they have a fair bit of tube stuff in the circuit, to be fair, but also a fair bit of solid state stuff (the phase inverter, the input stage, etc.).
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#4
Quote by Dave_Mc
i haven't tried either but are you aware the blackstars are hybrid? they have a fair bit of tube stuff in the circuit, to be fair, but also a fair bit of solid state stuff (the phase inverter, the input stage, etc.).

Nope I wasn't aware of that thanks for mentioning... how essential is an fx loop if someone could bother explain shortly?
#5
An effects loop lets you put pedals after the preamp. Some things like reverb and delay sound terrible if you have distortion after them, so the effects loop lets you put them after the preamp where most of the distortion takes place. You don't need one to use your POD, and if you don't use many effects it probably isn't something you need to prioritize.

How essential it is depends on what you have and what you want to do. If you only use effects with a clean amp, or after a distortion pedal into a clean amp, you probably don't need to use an effects loop. If you're going to want to play into a distorted preamp and still use delay/reverb/whatever, you may want a loop.
#6
Blackstar HT series amps have some ss components with tubes, but saying Blackstar amps are hybrid amps is like saying Orange amps are hybrid amps, it depends on the model.

TS, you should pick the amp that sounds better to you.

A couple of points to consider, the Blackstar HT-1 does not have an effects loop, the HT-5 does. The HT-5 does not have a master volume, and is quite loud to produce hi gain. May be too loud for the apartment. The Laney club has a separate gain and volume knob, also a 1 watt setting; therefore, you should be able to drive gain in lower volumes. Keep in mind, an overdrive pedal in front of the HT-5 would be similar. For the price and what you list as important, the Laney seems to be the better fit, but I have not played that amp and couldn't tell you what it sounds like.

Lastly, using the Pod for effects will work through the effects loop, but it will color the amp's tone a little as it is also an amplifier emulator.
#7
Nobody said anything about Blackstar across the board. Just those ones mentioned in the first post.

You can turn amp emulation off on the POD.
#8
Quote by MAChiefs
Blackstar HT series amps have some ss components with tubes, but saying Blackstar amps are hybrid amps is like saying Orange amps are hybrid amps, it depends on the model.

How? Do any of the Orange tube amps (so disregarding the Micro Terror) have SS components in the signal path? The HT series has shitloads - and that's what a hybrid is by definition; a combination of both technologies. Nobody is talking about the Series One here, just the HT series and those are definitely hybrids.
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#9
Some very informative answers thank you, I am open to suggestions for alternatives as well..
I understand: I can use the processor without the fx loop, only that the modeller will obviously color the sound, but it wont be a mess up... For analog effects, only a delay/reverb unit requires an fx loop. Which means I may have problems with that on Laney cub 10, which has neither a reverb nor an fx loop . Do I get that right?
Last edited by highwaystar30 at Feb 23, 2016,
#10
Cool thing about blackstars for me is the headphone capability, and I suspect they will be more reliable. Laneys seem to me to sound more authentic tube. Some people seem to favor Cub 10 rather than 12 in terms of sound. And then the fx loop issues obviously...
Last edited by highwaystar30 at Feb 23, 2016,
#11
Quote by MAChiefs
(a) Blackstar HT series amps have some ss components with tubes, but saying Blackstar amps are hybrid amps is like saying Orange amps are hybrid amps, it depends on the model.

(b) The HT-5 does not have a master volume, and is quite loud to produce hi gain. May be too loud for the apartment.


(a) I used the definite article so I assumed it was clear I was talking about the blackstars that highwaystar30 mentioned in the opening post. If it wasn't clear, then that's what I meant. As you said, some of the Blackstars are genuinely all-tube, at least as far as I'm aware (the artisans, for example).

(b) I haven't tried it but it has separate volume and gain controls for the overdrive channel so it should be easy enough to get distortion at low volume? Unless it just doesn't sound good at really low volumes (which sometimes happens depending on the amp in question).
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#12
Quote by highwaystar30
Some very informative answers thank you, I am open to suggestions for alternatives as well..
I understand: I can use the processor without the fx loop, only that the modeller will obviously color the sound, but it wont be a mess up... For analog effects, only a delay/reverb unit requires an fx loop. Which means I may have problems with that on Laney cub 10, which has neither a reverb nor an fx loop . Do I get that right?

No, neither of those things are right.

You can turn the amp modeling off on the POD, so no issue there.

Delay/reverb do not require an effects loop. One can be useful but depending on how you use those effects you may not have any issues without one.
#13
Quote by Roc8995
No, neither of those things are right.

You can turn the amp modeling off on the POD, so no issue there.

Delay/reverb do not require an effects loop. One can be useful but depending on how you use those effects you may not have any issues without one.

Alright... It seems Cub 12 against 10 would be a matter of taste.. or Blackstar for that matter... thanks.. anybody wants to add to this I will be checking the thread..
#14
Quote by Cathbard
How? Do any of the Orange tube amps (so disregarding the Micro Terror) have SS components in the signal path? The HT series has shitloads - and that's what a hybrid is by definition; a combination of both technologies. Nobody is talking about the Series One here, just the HT series and those are definitely hybrids.


How?, the sentence was written clearly. For more clarity, Orange makes hybrid amps but they also make tube amps, so does Blackstar. Not real hard to comprehend.
#15
Quote by MAChiefs
How?, the sentence was written clearly. For more clarity, Orange makes hybrid amps but they also make tube amps, so does Blackstar. Not real hard to comprehend.


blackstar's advertisements imply that their HT amps are tube, and they are not all tube.

what is the point with orange and hybrid amps? they make them just like vox, fender, marshall, etc. HOWEVER none of those brands try to make it seem like they are all tube.

blackstar is overpriced, deceitful and sub-par [regarding their HT amps].

(FWIW the series 1 are pretty nice though)
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#16
ENGL Gigmaster 15 Combo, although it would break my wallet.. maybe some of you got a thing or two to say on it?
#17
What is your budget? What exactly are you looking for as far as tone? Also, where you located?
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Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
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Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
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#18
Quote by trashedlostfdup
What is your budget? What exactly are you looking for as far as tone? Also, where you located?

Well Engl gigmaster 15 would be just within the boundaries of my budget, if gave up my idea of getting a wampler pinnacle OD for now... I am presently playing an EVH wolfgang special and practicing van halen licks, but thats not really my thing, I was drawn into it after I got the guitar. my interests: Blues/Classic rock - SRV to Billy Gibbons to Jimmy Page ... I also got a tele and a strat... I like the Laney cub tones but I am having reliability concerns with Cubs - especially as I am in Turkey. What tone I need? I need everything from SRV to EVH ... at least I would be happy to get... I know its quite a vague answer... Engl and Laney are very popular around here thats why I focus on those
#19
Quote by MAChiefs
How?, the sentence was written clearly. For more clarity, Orange makes hybrid amps but they also make tube amps, so does Blackstar. Not real hard to comprehend.


Mine was written clearly too and you managed to misunderstand that.

it's pretty easy to understand unless you're being deliberately obtuse- the blackstar fanboys like to act like everyone is anti-blackstar, which i guess is true if you can't (or don't want to) understand perfectly clear posts on a forum.

Quote by highwaystar30
ENGL Gigmaster 15 Combo, although it would break my wallet.. maybe some of you got a thing or two to say on it?


it's hybrid too, i strongly suspect.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Feb 24, 2016,
#20
I have the Cub10, nice little amp which takes pedals well. However, it only has a 10 inch speaker with an open back cabinet, which can make it sound a bit thin all the time. I have a few different cabs (1x12, 2x12, 4x12) all closed back. The Cub sounds much better with one of these.

A friend of mine has the Cub 12R, it does sound better, but is 15 watts with a 12 inch speaker. It will be too loud for you to use at home if you want to overdrive the tubes, but using your pod it should be good at low volume levels.

These amps really benefit from a tube upgrade, and the 6V6 power tubes in mine mean it's not expensive to do so. There is only 4 tubes in total in mine, 2 preamp 2 power amp.
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#21
Quote by anguskilminster
I have the Cub10, nice little amp which takes pedals well. However, it only has a 10 inch speaker with an open back cabinet, which can make it sound a bit thin all the time. I have a few different cabs (1x12, 2x12, 4x12) all closed back. The Cub sounds much better with one of these.

A friend of mine has the Cub 12R, it does sound better, but is 15 watts with a 12 inch speaker. It will be too loud for you to use at home if you want to overdrive the tubes, but using your pod it should be good at low volume levels.

These amps really benefit from a tube upgrade, and the 6V6 power tubes in mine mean it's not expensive to do so. There is only 4 tubes in total in mine, 2 preamp 2 power amp.

Thanks... I am hoping the 1 watt power mode will help with the loudness... I am not certain the pod will do great without the modeller -I am not great at tweaking this thing but it doesnt sound good with the modeller off- but I am ready to get some pedals for that.... I would really like to know if it is nonsensical to get a tube amp if one won't be able to 'crank it up' at all...
Last edited by highwaystar30 at Feb 24, 2016,
#22
Quote by highwaystar30
I would really like to know if it is nonsensical to get a tube amp if one won't be able to 'crank it up' at all...


One way to confirm this. Go to a guitar shop & play a Boss DS1 through a cheapo SS amp, then through a small tube amp, like the Cub. The Cub won't sound like the best amp in the world with the DS1, but the difference will be massive, the DS1/SS combo will be epically bad!!
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#23
Pods work fine just as an FX processor with the modelling turned off. Just because a MFX unit has amp modelling doesn't mean you have to use it. I never use the modelling on my GT100, I just use it as a pedal simulator in front of a good tube amp.
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#24
Quote by anguskilminster
One way to confirm this. Go to a guitar shop & play a Boss DS1 through a cheapo SS amp, then through a small tube amp, like the Cub. The Cub won't sound like the best amp in the world with the DS1, but the difference will be massive, the DS1/SS combo will be epically bad!!

Ok, thanks, nice answer... thats what I thought, making sure I dont do something silly...
#25
Quote by Cathbard
Pods work fine just as an FX processor with the modelling turned off. Just because a MFX unit has amp modelling doesn't mean you have to use it. I never use the modelling on my GT100, I just use it as a pedal simulator in front of a good tube amp.

Alright, thanks for the info, I will try to make that work - or simply get a couple of pedals when I can...
#26
I would still appreciate info on the ENGL gigmaster 15 combo.. or anthing good you know for that money...
#27
Quote by highwaystar30
I would really like to know if it is nonsensical to get a tube amp if one won't be able to 'crank it up' at all...


i don't crank mine it's perfectly sensible if you like how they sound at the volume you normally play at, and you can get the tones you want.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#28
^Yup. A lot of the high-powered, modern amp heads don't rely on cranking them up all the way to produce the sounds they are designed for.

That said, I think you need a certain minium of volume to get any amp to sound good, that being roughly the volume your hearing-impaired nan likes to dial in on her tv set. So quite loud.

Quote by highwaystar30
Alright... It seems Cub 12 against 10 would be a matter of taste.. or Blackstar for that matter... thanks.. anybody wants to add to this I will be checking the thread..

They are actually two very different circuits. I didn't like the Cub10 much when I tried it tbh. Haven't tried the 12 myself (only heard some clips), but I've looked up the schematic and it's basically a JCM800 preamp coupled with an EL84 power stage - hard to go wrong with for general rock music use. With the POD in the loop (and maybe a boost/OD up front) it should make for a pretty versatile and competent little amp.
Dunno how good the speaker is, I guess one might want to upgrade it at some point.
Last edited by TheQuailman at Feb 25, 2016,
#29
Quote by TheQuailman
^Yup. A lot of the high-powered, modern amp heads don't rely on cranking them up all the way to produce the sounds they are designed for.

That said, I think you need a certain minium of volume to get any amp to sound good, that being roughly the volume your hearing-impaired nan likes to dial in on her tv set. So quite loud.


They are actually two very different circuits. I didn't like the Cub10 much when I tried it tbh. Haven't tried the 12 myself (only heard some clips), but I've looked up the schematic and it's basically a JCM800 preamp coupled with an EL84 power stage - hard to go wrong with for general rock music use. With the POD in the loop (and maybe a boost/OD up front) it should make for a pretty versatile and competent little amp.
Dunno how good the speaker is, I guess one might want to upgrade it at some point.

Hey... thanks... I dont know if I can do upgrades here in Turkey... what did you dislike about Cub 10, if you like to oblige me?.. some appear to like it better than 12 for some reason... I take an interest in Cub 10 mainly because it is cheaper and these are not known as very reliable, so I lose less if it blows...
Last edited by highwaystar30 at Feb 25, 2016,
#30
Quote by highwaystar30
Hey... thanks... I dont know if I can do upgrades here in Turkey... what did you dislike about Cub 10, if you like to oblige me?.. some appear to like it better than 12 for some reason... I take an interest in Cub 10 mainly because it is cheaper and these are not known as very reliable, so I lose less if it blows...

The 10 is a low-gain kind of amp and considering that, I would have liked some better cleans. The small speaker might be limiting it, I don't know, it just seemed pretty bland. But I'm also picky about cleans, so maybe it's just me. The 12 seems to do okay cleans and also has a lot more drive available, making it a much more versatile amp.

Upgrades shouldn't be a concern for now, it's something to think about far far down the road, so don't worry too much. (I also think there's bound to be some online retailers selling guitar speakers and tubes and such in Turkey. Otherwise you can always import stuff from European shops.)

Never heard of the amps being particularly unreliable.
#31
Quote by TheQuailman
The 10 is a low-gain kind of amp and considering that, I would have liked some better cleans. The small speaker might be limiting it, I don't know, it just seemed pretty bland. But I'm also picky about cleans, so maybe it's just me. The 12 seems to do okay cleans and also has a lot more drive available, making it a much more versatile amp.

Upgrades shouldn't be a concern for now, it's something to think about far far down the road, so don't worry too much. (I also think there's bound to be some online retailers selling guitar speakers and tubes and such in Turkey. Otherwise you can always import stuff from European shops.)

Never heard of the amps being particularly unreliable.

Hey there, thanks alot for the detailed answer... I would care for cleans to be good too, particularly as I intend to get the drive sounds from pedals and such... So it appears, given the couple of reliable verdicts including yours, Laney 12C will be the way to go... unless anyone suggests anything else...
Last edited by highwaystar30 at Feb 25, 2016,
#32
I wanted to note an impression I got from the demos I saw... Cub 12 has more character with the cleans, while Cub 10 sounds a little bland there.. On the other hand, with overdrive tones Cub 12 sounds harsh and trebly - I think I observe that even where OD pedals are used, I don't know if that makes sense.. I believe in 12r's cleans... I am going to be using pod or pedals... comments on these are appreciated...

I am also considering getting stuff from abroad, so possibly Peavey Valveking or Classic and many other stuff I dont know about could be within my reach (financially and physically - thomann.de lists tube amps available in Europe). I dont enjoy appearing like I am making a fuss about or obsessing over a small thing, Laney cub12r is more than 500 dollars where I live (which is not a lot for a tube amp but more than what it costs in the States or Europe) .. I think I can force up to 800...
Thanks everybody...
Last edited by highwaystar30 at Feb 26, 2016,
#33
Quote by TheQuailman
^Yup. A lot of the high-powered, modern amp heads don't rely on cranking them up all the way to produce the sounds they are designed for.

That said, I think you need a certain minium of volume to get any amp to sound good, that being roughly the volume your hearing-impaired nan likes to dial in on her tv set. So quite loud.


yeah
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#34
People I moved to a different position and I am looking to get something better.. Laney VC15 combo is what I can get immediately. I find the tones fine, yet there is little clean headroom for pedals... check it out

https://youtu.be/NmLkCqZUM7Q

yet it seems to do good work with pedals here, I am not sure how to think about it

https://youtu.be/KhBdbkdLubk
Last edited by highwaystar30 at Feb 27, 2016,
#35
i haven't tried it with pedals (nor have i tried one in ages) but if you're talking apartment volumes i'd very much suspect it'll have enough headroom for pedals. don't quote me on that, though, i haven't tried one for years and am a bit hazy about how it sounds.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#36
Quote by Dave_Mc
i haven't tried it with pedals (nor have i tried one in ages) but if you're talking apartment volumes i'd very much suspect it'll have enough headroom for pedals. don't quote me on that, though, i haven't tried one for years and am a bit hazy about how it sounds.

Thanks, yes me suspects so too... but Lionheart might be a better, more versatile if expensive alternative for rock playing. Among the stuff I listened to online, Marshall DSL40 impressed me most (that Marshall grawl is like the epitomic sound of rock right, one wants it). But Laneys I suspect again, probably can do those clean SRV type sounds as well. Both Lionheart 5w L5T 112 , and DSL40 I need to get from abroad (I am not in US or Europe), VC15 is readily available and is nicely priced.
So finally, if things work out as I hope, the final decision will be between DSL40 and L5T (and VC15 still has a slight chance). I hope to handle DSL's loudness with an attenuator. If you have anything to say on that decision you are very welcome... will be appreciated.. everybody..
Last edited by highwaystar30 at Feb 27, 2016,
#37
as i said, it's a good while since i've tried them but i'm not sure those laneys would be my first choice for srv cleans, they're a bit more british-sounding.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#38
Quote by Dave_Mc
as i said, it's a good while since i've tried them but i'm not sure those laneys would be my first choice for srv cleans, they're a bit more british-sounding.



First choice for that would be Fender I guess right? Trying to get as many things as possible at the same time. Looks like very sound advice when I look at it today
I am also interested in Marshall DSL40c and I would like to learn if Marshall clean channel can be used for pedal work effectively. I am mainly a British sound person I believe, but I want to get 'everthing' as much as possible. I am eyeing Peavey classics as well. thanks for taking interest.
Last edited by highwaystar30 at Feb 28, 2016,
#39
Quote by highwaystar30
First choice for that would be Fender I guess right?


yeah i would think so, but i'm not that well up on srv and some of the other regulars could likely help better than I can. There should be amps available with marshally drive channels and fendery clean channels (though probably some compromise between the two), but I'm kind of drawing a blank at the moment
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#40
Quote by Dave_Mc
yeah i would think so, but i'm not that well up on srv and some of the other regulars could likely help better than I can. There should be amps available with marshally drive channels and fendery clean channels (though probably some compromise between the two), but I'm kind of drawing a blank at the moment

Not a problem thank you... there is this Laney L5T that might be a candidate - a compromise - but I would need to get that from abroad...