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#1
We ain't exploiting the bees for their honey

Shut up vegans

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#2
I had honey when I was vegan.

Only thing that could make fucking carob tolerable.
O.K.

“There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want.”
~ Bill Watterson


O__o
#3
In fact keeping bees for the purpose of making honey is very beneficial to the environment.
My old signature was too long. Have a daisy.

#5
Quote by RAB11
In fact keeping bees for the purpose of making honey is very beneficial to the environment.

And is taking the honey beneficial to the bees?

EDIT: Oh yea, we're saving them from the dia-BEE-tus.

My bad.
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#8
but anyway the animal welfare argument for veganism is a bit trash in my eyes if you consider all the goofy shit we've done, and still do, to animals to get to a society where people can live into their 90s. (especially because there is a very sketchy line about what is "alive" enough. prob some scientist out there who could argue a colony of mold has more sense than a single be). but all those vegans will die out when someone invents some super life extending pills that work off animal products, or we are all walking around with spare organs grown in labs from using meat slurry growth mediums or something.

environmental argument for veganism is the only valid one in my eyes and bees are generally kept properly and support crop pollination (apparently bees will just overfill their hives on honey and then spazz out and leave en masse when it gets crowded with honey, so taking some of the honey is doing everyone a favour). honey is more removing excess that would otherwise be thrown away rather than a "farming" it like milk.
O.K.

“There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want.”
~ Bill Watterson


O__o
#9
Honey is a by product of bees living

Vegetables are fertilised with animal manure

Manure is a by product of animals living

If honey =/= vegan then vegetables =/= vegan

checkmate vegans

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#10
I am generally vegan and I don't give a shit about honey. Meh, different vegans think and care about different things. I think it's a stupid position too, bees bloody love making honey.
#12
also most vegans I know love peanut butter but the sourcing of palm oil usually used in it is far (the non palm oil, organic stuff is generally nasty though)


also I think you are going to be true vegan for animal welfare reasons, you should abandon anything that indirectly affects animals. so no veggies that involve mass land clearing for crops (*cough* soya *cough* rice *cough* most pulses) and any products that do involve habitat destruction (most paper, plastics, wood, coal, metals (esp rare earth), textiles, dyes, etc, etc)

basically take it all the way and go live some woods and eat bark like a fucking hermit wearing clothes made out of dead leaves.
O.K.

“There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want.”
~ Bill Watterson


O__o
#13
Come back if you want to
And remember who you are
‘Cause there's nothing here for you my dear
And everything must pass
#14
the arguments against milk farming are also very, very dumb and there's so many lies being told about it

I'm from the countryside, one of my mates lives on a farm, his whole family are farmers, have been for generations. Milk cows are worth £3million, and don't produce good quality milk unless they are happy. They are healthier than 90% of household pets, and are treated really well. It's actually extremely cruel to not milk a cow, for reasons i cba to explain rn as I have other stuff to do

I've been on many farms, seen cows being milked, seen chickens being raised/farmed. Its anecdotal I know, but from my own personal experience I can tell you that 90% of most vegan's arguments against farming are absolute bullshit

meat farming however is pretty messed up, and as a society we should be looking at weaning ourselves away from our over-consumption of meat. Mainly because its fucking up the environment, and also because its not sustainable at all

if you actually give a shit about animals then stop attacking people and do something productive, like supporting more ethical meat farming, buying free-range eggs, buying from local farms via farmer's markets ect. Actual farmers care about their animals, the meat producing factories do not. But people like the factories because it means cheaper meat and eggs
Last edited by Bladez22 at Mar 4, 2016,
#15
Quote by EndTheRapture51
Honey is a by product of bees living

Vegetables are fertilised with animal manure

Manure is a by product of animals living

If honey =/= vegan then vegetables =/= vegan

checkmate vegans



also on this note while typing that last post about the forest, I wondered if vegans can eat animal poop


it's kinda byproduct so I guess no, even if the animals leave it there no matter what you do, but if the animal poop goes on your veg (which is pretty much always the case with organic farming) then yup true vegans can't exist. unless they grow all the food in the garden and have methods of keeping cats and birds and squirrels from shitty on things (but then do worms breaking up the soil count here? hmm. where is the line!?)
O.K.

“There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want.”
~ Bill Watterson


O__o
#16
I don't know much about bee farms so I never cared about honey. I care about the welfare of insects as much as that of rocks.


Quote by EndTheRapture51
Honey is a by product of bees living

Vegetables are fertilised with animal manure

Manure is a by product of animals living

If honey =/= vegan then vegetables =/= vegan

checkmate vegans

I've generally understood that veganism is about animal exploitation. Cows shitting in a field isn't as inhumane as groups being put on a milker for several hours.


The funny thing is I don't know very much about farming or its practices, this was just me as a teenager reacting to a bunch of stuff in my life and several documentaries of animal abuse. Prolly should've learned more before denouncing slaughterhouses (which are aptly named for something you perceive as an evil entity, right?) and cattle farms.


Still, I respect the hell outta most vegans. Really anyone taking a stance against animal abuse (before the argument is made, I'm more sympathetic to beings who can't understand suffering, like animals and children).

Quote by theguitarist
also on this note while typing that last post about the forest, I wondered if vegans can eat animal poop


it's kinda byproduct so I guess no, even if the animals leave it there no matter what you do, but if the animal poop goes on your veg (which is pretty much always the case with organic farming) then yup true vegans can't exist. unless they grow all the food in the garden and have methods of keeping cats and birds and squirrels from shitty on things (but then do worms breaking up the soil count here? hmm. where is the line!?)

Isn't it more about disrupting animals' well-being? Like it's not animal product = avoid. Just stuff that came about through our imposition of pain.
Last edited by ali.guitarkid7 at Mar 4, 2016,
#17
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
I don't know much about bee farms so I never cared about honey. I care about the welfare of insects as much as that of rocks.


I've generally understood that veganism is about animal exploitation. Cows shitting in a field isn't as inhumane as groups being put on a milker for several hours.


The funny thing is I don't know very much about farming or its practices, this was just me as a teenager reacting to a bunch of stuff in my life and several documentaries of animal abuse. Prolly should've learned more before denouncing slaughterhouses (which are aptly named for something you perceive as an evil entity, right?) and cattle farms.


Still, I respect the hell outta most vegans. Really anyone taking a stance against animal abuse (before the argument is made, I'm more sympathetic to beings who can't understand suffering, like animals and children).

That's not how manure is gathered for use as a fertiliser, though.
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#18
Quote by Bladez22
the arguments against milk farming are also very, very dumb and there's so many lies being told about it

I'm from the countryside, one of my mates lives on a farm, his whole family are farmers, have been for generations. Milk cows are worth £3million, and don't produce good quality milk unless they are happy. They are healthier than 90% of household pets, and are treated really well. It's actually extremely cruel to not milk a cow, for reasons i cba to explain rn as I have other stuff to do

I've been on many farms, seen cows being milked, seen chickens being raised/farmed. Its anecdotal I know, but from my own personal experience I can tell you that 90% of most vegan's arguments against farming are absolute bullshit

meat farming however is pretty messed up, and as a society we should be looking at weaning ourselves away from our over-consumption of meat. Mainly because its fucking up the environment, and also because its not sustainable at all



I honestly think meat consumption should still exist in the future but cut down to a very small amount, eg once a month. and for the "i need my daily animal protein" jokers we just farm loads of dumb squid (whose population will very likely explode feeding off algae blooms and such that come about from the ocean temperature rises), grind them into flavourless protein pastes and just screw around with dyes and sauces to make it taste like chicken (or even better genetically modify some squid to taste like chicken)
O.K.

“There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want.”
~ Bill Watterson


O__o
#19
Quote by theguitarist at #33864507
I honestly think meat consumption should still exist in the future but cut down to a very small amount, eg once a month. and for the "i need my daily animal protein" jokers we just farm loads of dumb squid (whose population will very likely explode feeding off algae blooms and such that come about from the ocean temperature rises), grind them into flavourless protein pastes and just screw around with dyes and sauces to make it taste like chicken (or even better genetically modify some squid to taste like chicken)


I couldn't agree more, I didn't mean we should all go veggie overnight, just we should all cut down our meat consumption. Most people in the west have meat with 2/3 meals a day, 7 days a week. even 100 years ago this would've been unaffordable. Meat is a luxury, not a necessity

I feel really bad now because I bought some more frozen beef and chicken the other week, I zoned out while doing my shopping. I really do want to go pescetarian (I like fish way too much to give it up...)

@ali, yeah taking a stance against the evil animal abusers by burning down a local farmer's barn, because fuck that evil farmer

vegans/animal rights protesters around my way are fucking imbeciles and it makes me really angry

They burnt a load of people's cars in my village because they worked at Huntingdon Life Sciences (an animal testing center). evil scientists torturing animals and all that. Not like the evil scientists actually develop medicines for veterinary purposes or anything

seriously, they're fucking idiots
Last edited by Bladez22 at Mar 4, 2016,
#21
Quote by Bladez22
I couldn't agree more, I didn't mean we should all go veggie overnight, just we should all cut down our meat consumption. Most people in the west have meat with 2/3 meals a day, 7 days a week. even 100 years ago this would've been unaffordable. Meat is a luxury, not a necessity

I feel really bad now because I bought some more frozen beef and chicken the other week, I zoned out while doing my shopping. I really do want to go pescetarian (I like fish way too much to give it up...)

@ali, yeah taking a stance against the evil animal abusers by burning down a local farmer's barn, because fuck that evil farmer

vegans/animal rights protesters around my way are fucking imbeciles and it makes me really angry



yeah.

also I feel as bad about eat dairy & meat as I do things like rice.

rice and other grains and pulse (but rice especially because of the water consumption) take up a huge amount of land to produce enough for our population. I see quite a few veggie heavy diets tend to load up on these foods to compensate for the faster filling effect of meats but there is little consideration to the habitats ruined in production (either land clearing/habitat destruction or things like natural water sources being diverted to irrigate land, ruining the habitat it was flowing through originally (some countries try to combat this by making conservation zones but foods like white rice comes from places in asia where there is regular flouting of these rules))
O.K.

“There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want.”
~ Bill Watterson


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#22
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
How's that done?

Well, given that we're supposed to be doing this to fertilise crops for vegans, the cattle are going to be living on much larger expanses of land than they currently do, which will make the process of collecting the manure prohibitively expensive.

Or the final product crop prohibitively expensive. As well as taking up land that could otherwise be used for growing food crops.
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#23
yeah really I'm trying to reduce my meat consumption because eating less meat just feels healthier but i become so bloody gassy eating bean burgers etc. that it just isnt possible really also the amount of land taken up to grow vegetables is also kinda unethical i mean yeah it's better than meat eating but still not good

bring on synthetic meat i say

Quote by ali.guitarkid7
How's that done?


shit farms

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#25
Quote by EndTheRapture51
yeah really I'm trying to reduce my meat consumption because eating less meat just feels healthier but i become so bloody gassy eating bean burgers etc. that it just isnt possible really also the amount of land taken up to grow vegetables is also kinda unethical i mean yeah it's better than meat eating but still not good

bring on synthetic meat i say


shit farms

Well, that'd be more like slurry than manure.

And thus worse in terms of animal welfare.
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#26
eating fish is way harsher than eating meat imo

like the fish are just living happy lives and then theyre caught in a net and suffocate and alone its brutal

also fish stocks being dangerously low etc.

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#27
Fish are also very dumb, so I don't feel as bad. And they're not battery farmed to produce as much babies/meat as possible. Overfishing is a huge problem I do agree though

no food is 100% ethical, it all takes space/land, and something somewhere is always going to suffer because of it. But we should be doing more to stop it. Its just reached a point where we need to produce so much food to support our growing populations that people are willing to turn a blind eye to all the shit going on. That and most people don't even stop to think about where their bacon has come from, they know its from pigs, but they don't like to think about it because of the poor little pig being killed :'( :'( but that doesn't stop them from eating bacon every morning, and buying the cheapest packs of bacon, which is so cheap because of the inhumane way the pigs are bread and raised
#28
Quote by EndTheRapture51
eating fish is way harsher than eating meat imo

like the fish are just living happy lives and then theyre caught in a net and suffocate and alone its brutal

also fish stocks being dangerously low etc.



everyone is going to be eating loads of squid and jellyfish in the future.


and synthetic meat that is fed from vast fields of giant genetically modified plants.


all the cute animals would be extinct though (except the ones we clone and keep in zoos or for personal use for shits and giggles like in "do androids dream..")

Quote by Bladez22
Fish are also very dumb, so I don't feel as bad. And they're not battery farmed to produce as much babies/meat as possible. Overfishing is a huge problem I do agree though



srsly, I think fishing would work a lot better if consumers across the world were flexible about what they were getting and the fish stocks could be properly cycled to ensure there are heathly populations. but that's not gonna happen, so we better just wait till we run certain popular fish into the ground and move on to something more common and so on until we master fish farms.
O.K.

“There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want.”
~ Bill Watterson


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#29
Quote by Bladez22
Fish are also very dumb, so I don't feel as bad. d


Bladez advocates the slaughter and consumption of Down's Syndrome people

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#31
yeah, could happily have squid all the time in place of chicken.


though jellyfish is barely eaten, even though those goofy things are everywhere. not sure if I've ever actually tried it myself.
O.K.

“There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want.”
~ Bill Watterson


O__o
#32
There's a lot wrong with jellyfish mate. I love/hate them. They're 97% water, and live in the water. They are a collection of cells loosely connected, they have a nerve net that acts as a basic input/output model. They do nothing but float about the sea, and yet they have stingers that fuck shit up



they are not okay
#33
Quote by Bladez22
There's a lot wrong with jellyfish mate. I love/hate them. They're 97% water, and live in the water. They are a collection of cells loosely connected, they have a nerve net that acts as a basic input/output model. They do nothing but float about the sea, and yet they have stingers that fuck shit up



they are not okay



lets fucking kill them all then in boiling oil/water/chilli sauce


come on


look what we did to all those scary boars and bulls.
O.K.

“There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want.”
~ Bill Watterson


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#34
Quote by K'Nuckles
There's nothing wrong with squid or jellyfish


Just saying

Yea there is. It's way easier to ruin squid than chicken.
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#36
Quote by chrismendiola
A more interesting conversation would be about veganism and Western medicine.



I pretty much alluded to that in one of my rambles above.


Putting aside the animals and their products used in research, there are surprising amount of drugs derived from animal sources.
O.K.

“There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want.”
~ Bill Watterson


O__o
#38
Quote by ChucklesMginty

As far as milk/eggs, whatever.


for me:

milk is whatever by itself but cheese is so good (though I only properly eat it maybe once a month, getting a small fancy block/wedge that is gone in a day or two. I can easily see my meat eating going that way some day)

eggs make desserts great but if a proper substitute that acts exactly the same as eggs under all uses to the same quality turns up, I can ditch them (though I'd miss the quick easy breakfast of sunny side eggs on toast)


Quote by K'Nuckles
I eat jellyfish fairly oftenish, every couple of weeks. It's something you can just buy in Chinese shops, ready to eat out of the pack yo.



actually I'm sure I've tried dried ones a bunch of times. I was thinking more cooked fresh in a dish initially. forgotten about all the dried snack stuff you can get in chinese/japanese/whatever shops.
O.K.

“There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want.”
~ Bill Watterson


O__o
#39
Quote by Bladez22
@ali, yeah taking a stance against the evil animal abusers by burning down a local farmer's barn, because fuck that evil farmer

vegans/animal rights protesters around my way are fucking imbeciles and it makes me really angry

They burnt a load of people's cars in my village because they worked at Huntingdon Life Sciences (an animal testing center). evil scientists torturing animals and all that. Not like the evil scientists actually develop medicines for veterinary purposes or anything

seriously, they're fucking idiots

Do I have to #NotAllVegans you? Cuz bruh it's self-evident that I was talking about people who limit their consumption of animal products as much as possible, not eco-terrorists. My joke was in reference to an adolescent perception of evil in the term 'slaughterhouse'. I don't know how or why you made this connection, but I swear to god if it's cuz I'm Arab...

Quote by EndTheRapture51
bring on synthetic meat i say

Good god this please. I want my bacon synthesized, none of that gross natural shit

Quote by slapsymcdougal
Well, given that we're supposed to be doing this to fertilise crops for vegans, the cattle are going to be living on much larger expanses of land than they currently do, which will make the process of collecting the manure prohibitively expensive.

Or the final product crop prohibitively expensive. As well as taking up land that could otherwise be used for growing food crops.

I meant how does manure collection work on a large scale, but I shoulda guess shit farms.
Last edited by ali.guitarkid7 at Mar 4, 2016,
#40
Quote by MadClownDisease
I am generally vegan and I don't give a shit about honey. Meh, different vegans think and care about different things. I think it's a stupid position too, bees bloody love making honey.


"Generally" vegan? Meaning what, exactly? You're vegan when you can resist temptation to have gravy with your potatoes, but not when you're too hungry?

i have no problem with vegetarians, but veganism is fucking weird and stupid.
Quote by yellowfrizbee
What does a girl have to do to get it in the butt thats all I ever wanted from you. Why, Ace? Why? I clean my asshole every night hoping and wishing and it never happens.
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