#1
Greetings.

Im pretty much aware of In EAr Monitoring System but it costs alot around 700-800 euros. So i am searching for more inexpensive ways to hear myself Live using Headphones/earbuds while still playing through an amplifier.

As much as possible i want to achieve this without relying to much to a sound guy (like asking for aux out send for general mix) because my past experiences told me that some are not very cooperative. No offense to those cooperative sound guys out there (you are as important as the band members)

What im going for is
1. to hear myself live on stage while playing with my band. it is a plus if i can also hear what the others is playing.
2.i want to play through an amp because my gear is supposed to go into an amp and not direct. (i use wampler triple wreck for my main distortion)

Im thinking of buying rolls pm50s. but im not sure if i can send the balanced output from rolls to the amp using xlr to 1/4 adapter.

any other ways in achieving this? Thanks in advance.
#2
I think you're going to struggle without help from the sound guy, though I understand why you want him out of the loop. I have no experience of using a personal monitor setup but I do think by the time you crack this, you'll wish you'd just spent 700 Euros on proper kit or tried something different.

That being said, your proposed setup would possibly work for you. I think you'll struggle to get any other instruments into your headphones easily. If all the amps have separate line outs, you could maybe plug them into your own mixing desk and then put that signal through the pm50s so you'll hear it. But this will lengthen your sound check time, since you'll have to sort out those levels, as well as letting the sound guy sort on and off stage levels. You also might need a DI box with two outputs so both you and sound guy can have the bassist's signal if the amp only has a single Line out or DI ouput. I doubt you'll get vox without sound guy's help, as most venues provide the mics. Again, if you use your own mic gear e.g. wireless, you may need to split the output signal so both you and sound guy can have it.

Then there's the personal/political matter of your band mates being happy with you plugging cables into their gear, complicating the setup process, adding more points of failure to the rig and needing more power. From experience, band mates are picky and some venues are pushed for available plug sockets, so tripping the fuse box is a real possibility.

Lastly, you'd need some pretty decent headphones to hear the mix well over the drums. There's a reason monitor speakers are big and loud. This in itself my cause you hearing trouble, as all that noise in your ear long term will cause tinnitus.

Please note, I'm not a sound guy, so the above is just what I might try.

On a side note, I often struggled to hear myself on stage. I purchased some ER20 Musicians Earplugs a few years ago and things got much better on stage. They're under 20 Euros. You might want to try something similar before attempting to re-invent the wheel.
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#3
Maybe if your amp has a line out you can feed that into headphone amp and then to yourself.

There's really no easy way to mix your band with it as well, there are splitter snakes which can basically feed the stage and your mixer which then you can operate for your mix but that is also a nightmare.

I have over 20+ years of stage experience and I can count on one hand the times I've had a good sound. After a while you just learn to live with it and know what to listen to. Towards the end with my last band, I didn't even bother doing monitor adjustments, we were so used to the songs so as long as we could hear the drums behind us we were on.

You could possibly think of getting a small wedge monitor and putting that in front of you, facing toward yourself. Some soundguys might not be happy but then they're paid to be there for you. You could also turn up. Honestly, after one or two years of bad mixes I just cranked my sh*t up the way I want to hear it on stage. Most of the time they barely needed to mic my amp in the PA which made some of them unhappy. We had a roadie that kept on hounding them to fix stage the room mix when it was out of balance. Some good venues had separate monitor and FOH engineers, in that case we've worked harder to make it balanced, but after several attempts I never let them dictate to me, if I can't hear it - I turn up!
#4
guitar to radial pro direct box (the green one about $99) Output to amp and come out of the "thru" on the direct box to a powered monitor on a mic stand. I use this on stage at my church at I have complete control over hearing myself.
#5
A few clarifications first: In order to get all the musicians in your headphones, you are going to need a mix from somewhere. Either the house sound guy gives you one or you must mic and mix all the instruments yourself. Doing it yourself would cost about $10k for the mics and mixer plus a long setup time before each gig. It could work but it is not practical.

These are the different ways I control my stage sound in order of personal preference. Other musicians have different preferences but these work for me.

1. Keep my guitar amp close and point it at my ears, mic it for large shows. Put only vocals, a little keys and a little guitar in the monitor mix to a powered wedge or personal monitor that I can adjust the overall level. We need to hear the vocals clearly and just enough keys and guitar for cues. Never drums or bass because they tend to muddy the monitors with a lot of LF energy. We can always hear these guys on stage anyways. With this setup I can hear everything I need to sing and play with confidence and setup is fast and easy. I can also interact with the audience better which is important to me.

2. Keep amp close and get a house mix in the monitors. Not as tidy as plan #1 with often too much bass and drums in there. Sound guys will often give you this feed for monitors. Less than ideal, I can work with it though.

3. IEM using an Aviom mix or similar system. This setup is very expensive and gives every musician complete control over their IEM mix. I have used this method for over 10 years in P&W bands. A lot of young players love it but I still feel pretty cut off from the audience. I can get my sound but prefer a more live stage monitor.

These are probably the most common monitor choices around. On a high $$$ show with on stage monitor engineer, each musician can get a custom mix in their monitor but this is usually only found at the A list touring level with a monitor engineer on the band payroll.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
Last edited by Cajundaddy at Mar 18, 2016,
#6
Quote by G-Dog_666
I think you're going to struggle without help from the sound guy, though I understand why you want him out of the loop. I have no experience of using a personal monitor setup but I do think by the time you crack this, you'll wish you'd just spent 700 Euros on proper kit or tried something different.

.

On a side note, I often struggled to hear myself on stage. I purchased some ER20 Musicians Earplugs a few years ago and things got much better on stage. They're under 20 Euros. You might want to try something similar before attempting to re-invent the wheel.


first of all, thankyou for your reply. to hear what my band members plays is secondary. my primary goal is to hear myself. because on stage. we all know that we can hear the drums VERY well and the bass too. I find it hard to hear myself onstage as aguitar player. I tried cranking my amp to hear myself but at the end they almost muted my sound because of what i did. I checked on ER20, is it suppose to make guitar frequency clearer or just to lower the volumes? It seems to be a good idea.
#7
Quote by diabolical
Maybe if your amp has a line out you can feed that into headphone amp and then to yourself.

There's really no easy way to mix your band with it as well, there are splitter snakes which can basically feed the stage and your mixer which then you can operate for your mix but that is also a nightmare.

Most of the time they barely needed to mic my amp in the PA which made some of them unhappy. We had a roadie that kept on hounding them to fix stage the room mix when it was out of balance. Some good venues had separate monitor and FOH engineers, in that case we've worked harder to make it balanced, but after several attempts I never let them dictate to me, if I can't hear it - I turn up!


Your advise to me to turnn it up is my last resort. if i cant do anything about then Ill crank it up! but first i want to see if i can do something about it. Cheers!
#8
Perhaps a stupid idea, but wouldn't a buffed audio splitter help?
As in you'd split the audio signal from your guitar, make one go through a headphone amp and let the other go to the main amp itself.

If you're a bit handy with electronics:
http://www.muzique.com/lab/splitter.htm

I don't have any experience with PA systems, just a thought that came to mind.

edit: with this solution you would only hear yourself through the earpiece
Last edited by luke.geelen at Mar 18, 2016,
#9
Quote by Bob Sherwood
guitar to radial pro direct box (the green one about $99) Output to amp and come out of the "thru" on the direct box to a powered monitor on a mic stand. I use this on stage at my church at I have complete control over hearing myself.


I also thought of this setup using a DI box. the link of DI to the amp and the mic thru. but the difference is i get the mic thru to a small behringer mixer in which there is a headphone out and plug headphones ( just to hear my own guitar). Any idea about this? do you think it will work?

or if I may ask, what powered amp do you use? portability is my issue because i commute my way to gigs. Thankyou
#10
Quote by luke.geelen
Perhaps a stupid idea, but wouldn't a buffed audio splitter help?
As in you'd split the audio signal from your guitar, make one go through a headphone amp and let the other go to the main amp itself.

If you're a bit handy with electronics:
http://www.muzique.com/lab/splitter.htm

I don't have any experience with PA systems, just a thought that came to mind.

edit: with this solution you would only hear yourself through the earpiece


Thanks for your input. I thought about this as well but i read that splitting that way will make the signal somewhat weaker. As long as i hear myself in a live situation that I will be happy. like i mentioned before there is no problem hearing my bandmates onstage. So not hearing myself and sometimes they turn the lights off so i cant also see what im playing. Nice eh?
#11
Quote by vinsotnas2
Thanks for your input. I thought about this as well but i read that splitting that way will make the signal somewhat weaker. As long as i hear myself in a live situation that I will be happy. like i mentioned before there is no problem hearing my bandmates onstage. So not hearing myself and sometimes they turn the lights off so i cant also see what im playing. Nice eh?


As far as I know the buffered ones don't make the signal weaker, they can however change the sound a bit, this site gives information about the sound change through a single output buffer but if I remember correctly its the same for buffered with multiple outputs:
http://screaminfx.com/tech/why-and-when-to-use-a-guitar-buffer-pedal.htm
#12
Quote by luke.geelen
As far as I know the buffered ones don't make the signal weaker, they can however change the sound a bit, this site gives information about the sound change through a single output buffer but if I remember correctly its the same for buffered with multiple outputs:
http://screaminfx.com/tech/why-and-when-to-use-a-guitar-buffer-pedal.htm


i stand corrected then. But some of the guys recommended using DI to split the signal.
#13
i searched the internet. will these work?

1. Guitar>floor pedals> DI box with link and xlr output> link output goes to amp> xlr output goes to a small mixer with headphone out> Headphones

OR

2. Guitar> floor pedals>1/4 to xlr adapter> Rolls PM50s (with only 1xlr input and 1 xlr output)> xlr to 1/4 adapter> amplifier then from rolls pm50 will plug headphones

will 1 these do the trick? thanks
#14
SM57 - Cheap Behringer Mixer - Headphones. You can set it your self, and even tell that sound guy he's using YOUR feed.

The look on their faces when you say that is worth 40keks.
Quote by Watterboy
Do you have any dilithium crystals or fresh warm dumps for sale
#15
Quote by the chemist
SM57 - Cheap Behringer Mixer - Headphones. You can set it your self, and even tell that sound guy he's using YOUR feed.

The look on their faces when you say that is worth 40keks.

+1
That'll work.
What about amp direct out to headphone amp?
#16
Quote by diabolical
+1
That'll work.
What about amp direct out to headphone amp?


I guess that also works, but for me it would drive me insane. I hate the sound of 'Simulated Output' driven guitars.

Like, how do people use the RedBox for hi-gain sounds? It sounds so fuzzy and turd.
Quote by Watterboy
Do you have any dilithium crystals or fresh warm dumps for sale
#17
Depends on the amp, the Redbox sounds fantastic on some and horrid on others.
He needs to be heard we weren't talking type of ourput. If amp has direct out then he can use, it'll blend with the rest of the din so it won't be so bad.
#18
Just get your amp close to you and point it at your head. Done. No other gear needed. If you 1/2 the distance to your amp you increase perceived volume by 6db. Half it again? Another 6db. It's a physics thing.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#19
Or you could simply arrange your amp like a wedge so that none of it goes to FoH and hang a mic in front of it.
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#20
Quote by Cathbard
Or you could simply arrange your amp like a wedge so that none of it goes to FoH and hang a mic in front of it.


"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#21
You would need a wireless IEM setup. You would also need a some sort of monitor board, that you would run the instruments you want into the board, then run the output of the board into your IEM system, which would then send the signal to your receiver. That's going to cost you some money.
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