#1
Hi Guys

I'll keep this short and simple.

Intro: Looking for a practice Amp for home but only valve amps as i don't want to spend any money on digital amps as i just done like their sound unless you can suggest a really really good digital amp which comes close to valve sounds.

Location: UK

Budget: £150 - £200

Condition: New and used (i am happy to buy a used one/prefer this as i believe i will get a better deal)

Genre: Metal/Prog Metal/Rock i.e mainly overdriven sounds and some clean sounds

I know this is impossible but i want to get close to the sounds which Petrucci produces. I know it won't happen in this budget so again want to get close to it.

Guitar: I have a Jackson DK2M with seymour duncan pickups

To summarise, see below video which sums the sound i am looking for:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i24e8icZG1o

Thanks
#2
Used Laney Cub, a quality OD pedal, and speaker of your choice. Probably as close as you can get on a pauper budget.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
Last edited by Cajundaddy at Mar 22, 2016,
#3
You need to expand your budget substantially to get a valve amp that'll cover such a range of tones that well. Even used, you're going to seriously struggle.

Either that or you need to lower your expectations quite significantly and accept a compromise by getting a solid state amp like a used Peavey Vypyr or something.
Quote by TheSennaj
And well yes, I'll enjoy the carpal tunnel and tendonitis, because trying to get one is clearly smarter than any word you have spoken thus far.
Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE at Mar 22, 2016,
#4
Thanks Cajun. Let me look into that.

Toodeepblue, lets put it this way, what's the best valve in your opinion I can get in that budget to produce over driven sounds? If you think the budget is not good enough then what's the best way of putting together a petruccish sound for room practice?
#5
Quote by blue90
Toodeepblue, lets put it this way, what's the best valve in your opinion I can get in that budget to produce over driven sounds? If you think the budget is not good enough then what's the best way of putting together a petruccish sound for room practice?
Vypyr as suggested is your best bet, to add check out Yamaha THR series or the Blackstar ID's (hell even the Fly would do well).

TBH no tube amps of that little power/size and price will get you the tone you're after, better to go modeling.
#6
Maybe look at Orange Micro Dark/Micro Terror? EQ pedal really brings it to life. 20w, but it does well quietly.
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Quote by willT08
Every thread on here to do with audio quality is like walking into a paddock of shit slinging chimps
#7
Thanks guys. I will look into these. It seems like I should probably stick to modelling then. Any other suggestions?
#8
A couple excellent sounding Solidstate amps to consider:

Hughes and Kettner Warp 7
VOX AC15VR

As for tube amps, the list goes on, so does the bill.
#9
Hughes & Kettner TM 5 head. These are out of production now. Try one out if you have a chance. Used ones can sell for $200 or less. You might be able to buy one of these plus a small cab and be close to your max budget number.
#10
Quote by Cajundaddy
Used Laney Cub, a quality OD pedal, and speaker of your choice. Probably as close as you can get on a pauper budget.


i'd just wonder that by the time you spent on all those upgrades you might be within range of the 20 watt 2-channel jet city combo. it'd benefit from a speaker upgrade and an od up front too, but probably not just as necessary.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#11
That's one of these threads that makes me cringe a little. You want to sound like a guy that has a $50,000 rack on a $300 budget. The closest you can probably get to Petrucci is with a small Mesa Mark IV or V:
http://www.sweetwater.com/insync/mesas-mini-mark-v/

Maybe Laney VC15 and some kind of overdrive...but that's probably as cheap as you can go.
Possibly some modeler but not likely to get very close...maybe Tech21 TM30, they had a solid "american" setting that might do the trick, it is not tube though, even though is analog.
#12
I have seen a lot about these hybrid amps ie blackstar ht 1 and micro terror, are they any good? If I can get ht1 for £100, would that sound better or the modelling amps like vypr, Id core etc?
#13
How bout a Randall RD1c or RD5c?
Fender Mustang/Derfenstein DST> Boss Power Wah> Pedal Monsters Klone> Bogner Uberschall> Walrus Audio Janus> Randall RM20> Line 6 M9> Randall RM20
#14
OK, you don't like digital, fair enough, neither do I for clipping FX.

I play at acoustic guitar volume in my man cave, and have found that what works for me is clean plus pedals. The question I would be asking is what inexpensive amp works well with (analog) pedals at low volume? - Forget about whether it is tube or SS, or how big it is.
#16
I owned a 5w amp a while back to use as a practice amp. I found that in a practice setting, it was too loud since you had to crank it to get any kind of tone out of it, but wasn't quite loud enough to use in a band setting. I picked up a Vypyr VIP 1 and found it completely more usable as a practice amp.
#17
Quote by blue90
Which pedals and amp are u using Tony?


My genres are different to yours, but the essentials for me are:

a compressor - Boss LMB-3, though the cheap 2-knob, Behringer Dynacomp-style also works well

an overdrive - Digitech Bad Monkey or Boss SD-1, depending on what kind of sound I want. I also use others as the mood takes me.

a reverb - T-Rex Reverb, but I'm not very happy with it, because it makes weird noises on bright amp settings. Now I would get something a Boss RV-6. These are digital, but I think digital works very well for ambiance FX.

The amps are a H&K StDual El84, and a highly modded first series Epi Vj, both tube, but are really don't think that is essential.
#18
Quote by blue90
I have seen a lot about these hybrid amps ie blackstar ht 1 and micro terror, are they any good? If I can get ht1 for £100, would that sound better or the modelling amps like vypr, Id core etc?

I personally think that these adorable little hybrid amps are a bit of a gimmick. They sound pretty mediocre. And the concept of a valve being amplified with a solid state circuit can be completely self defeating in some cases, depending on how the amp is designed.

Some amplifiers only use the valve as a buffer. They just pass a small amount of voltage and a little bit of the guitar's signal through it without it really having much of an effect on its own of driving the signal. If an amp has valves in it, it needs to have a high-voltage supply built in to power them properly. Otherwise the valve is going to do nothing.

Not all hybrid amps are bad of course. But you tend not to find the good ones for £100.

Get a Vypyr.
Quote by TheSennaj
And well yes, I'll enjoy the carpal tunnel and tendonitis, because trying to get one is clearly smarter than any word you have spoken thus far.
#20
Quote by Marsden
Hughes & Kettner TM 5 head. These are out of production now. Try one out if you have a chance. Used ones can sell for $200 or less. You might be able to buy one of these plus a small cab and be close to your max budget number.


I own a TM5, can can tell you they don't exactly do that tight, modern metal sound that well. Still nice amps, but not incredibly versatile.
Quote by Watterboy
Do you have any dilithium crystals or fresh warm dumps for sale
#21
I have to agree with Tony, clean amp and pedals. That's probably what most pros are using as well. I've tried both tube and solid state, can't stand modeling amps, they're a mediocre imitation of a real amp.

I have a 6 watt 1974 Fender Champ, excellent clean sound, and really loud for bedroom if you crank it. I put mine on a stand to lean it back, and keep it about an inch from the wall so it reflects some bass, and it does a good job. Add a pedal and it sounds great. I usually keep it at a low enough volume you can talk without yelling. The clean Champ with a pedal sounds better than a half dozen solid state practice amps I've tried. I've played Peavey, Fender, RMG, Gorilla and a Ibanez, the Champ with a pedal ran circles around them all.

Here's the stand, with and without the amp. Works great and pretty cheap. PVC pipe and some fittings. Just made one for our other guitar player to use onstage, I use mine every gig...

IMGP27115 by Paleo Pete, on Flickr

Just the stand, so you can see how it's made.

IMGP27118 by Paleo Pete, on Flickr
Hmmm...I wonder what this button does...
#23
#24
Quote by blue90

It's going to sound really crappy with such a small speaker.

For metal tones, you need at least a 1x12" speaker. Anything smaller than that just isn't going to have the bass response by virtue of the laws of physics.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Peavey-Vypyr-75-Watt-Modeling-Guitar-Amplifier-Sanpera-II-MIDI-Foot-Controller-/141935836999?hash=item210c08ff47:g:2HsAAOSwpIdW77ss

This is a really nice deal. The Sanpera II will give you more options for effects than you'll ever know what to do with.

The insistence of getting a Vypyr on this thread is there for a reason. This really is as good as it gets for your budget. At the very least its going to sound a lot more like a Peavey 6505 or a Mesa MkV than any small combo with an 8" speaker ever will.
Quote by TheSennaj
And well yes, I'll enjoy the carpal tunnel and tendonitis, because trying to get one is clearly smarter than any word you have spoken thus far.
Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE at Mar 26, 2016,
#26
nice it's the lower gain one (I haven't tried it) but I imagine with a od pedal as a boost up front it should get pretty heavy. (plenty of nice od pedals under £50, if you want any suggestions just ask)
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#27
Quote by Dave_Mc
nice it's the lower gain one (I haven't tried it) but I imagine with a od pedal as a boost up front it should get pretty heavy. (plenty of nice od pedals under £50, if you want any suggestions just ask)



Not sure if I can connect pedals... It doesn't have FX loop. How would it work and which pedal would u suggest?
#28
don't worry, you don't need a loop to use pedals. pretty much all distortion/boost and wah pedals you plug into the front of the amp anyway, and most other modulation and time-based effects (like chorus, delay etc.) you can put either in the loop or in front of the amp, depending on what you prefer.

the reason loops came about is that if you're using preamp distortion generated by your amp, time-based effects (like delay, reverb etc.) can sound muddy because you normally want them after distortion, and without a loop they're in front of the distortion in your signal chain. But some people still prefer the sound of them in front of distortion, and if the amp is clean it doesn't matter either way. modulation effects (chorus, phaser, flanger) sound a bit different in the loop (normally more exaggerated), but again it's preference as to which you prefer.

you just get another instrument cable and plug your current instrument cable into your guitar and also into the input of the pedal, and then plug the other instrument cable from the pedal's output into the input of your amp.

as i said, i haven't tried your amp so i can only make an educated guess about what would work. boss sd1 is good and cheap but some of them bleed a bit of the signal through in bypass which is a bit of a pain. it's cured by putting another buffered pedal in front but it kind of defeats the purpose of a good value pedal if you have to buy another one to make it work! funnily enough the cheapo daphon clone, the e 20 od, doesn't seem to have the bypass problem and is a good bit cheaper too. it's often sold rebranded under other names. http://www.effectsdatabase.com/model/daphon/e20/e20od (some of the rebranded names are listed there)

really anything that's tubescreamer- (joyo vintage overdrive, digitech bad monkey, digitech/hardwire tube overdrive, mooer green mile and a whole host of others) or sd1-based (as i mentioned above) should work well. you set the drive at or near the minimum amount and the volume control up full, with the tone about 2 o'clock, and that should give you a decent boost to the already overdriven amp (don't do it with the amp clean or it'll blow out your ears).
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#29
Quote by Dave_Mc
don't worry, you don't need a loop to use pedals. pretty much all distortion/boost and wah pedals you plug into the front of the amp anyway, and most other modulation and time-based effects (like chorus, delay etc.) you can put either in the loop or in front of the amp, depending on what you prefer.

the reason loops came about is that if you're using preamp distortion generated by your amp, time-based effects (like delay, reverb etc.) can sound muddy because you normally want them after distortion, and without a loop they're in front of the distortion in your signal chain. But some people still prefer the sound of them in front of distortion, and if the amp is clean it doesn't matter either way. modulation effects (chorus, phaser, flanger) sound a bit different in the loop (normally more exaggerated), but again it's preference as to which you prefer.

you just get another instrument cable and plug your current instrument cable into your guitar and also into the input of the pedal, and then plug the other instrument cable from the pedal's output into the input of your amp.

as i said, i haven't tried your amp so i can only make an educated guess about what would work. boss sd1 is good and cheap but some of them bleed a bit of the signal through in bypass which is a bit of a pain. it's cured by putting another buffered pedal in front but it kind of defeats the purpose of a good value pedal if you have to buy another one to make it work! funnily enough the cheapo daphon clone, the e 20 od, doesn't seem to have the bypass problem and is a good bit cheaper too. it's often sold rebranded under other names. http://www.effectsdatabase.com/model/daphon/e20/e20od (some of the rebranded names are listed there)

really anything that's tubescreamer- (joyo vintage overdrive, digitech bad monkey, digitech/hardwire tube overdrive, mooer green mile and a whole host of others) or sd1-based (as i mentioned above) should work well. you set the drive at or near the minimum amount and the volume control up full, with the tone about 2 o'clock, and that should give you a decent boost to the already overdriven amp (don't do it with the amp clean or it'll blow out your ears).


Cheers Dave. That's quite a comprehensive response. Still waiting for the amp but will definitely look into these and will let you know if I have more questions. Thanks again.
#31
If you're looking for a 1 watt tube head, check out the Wangs head. Pretty neat little thing. However, you're not going to get metal tones out of it. I'll probably buy it for kicks in the future, though.
#32
Quote by blue90
Cheers Dave. That's quite a comprehensive response. Still waiting for the amp but will definitely look into these and will let you know if I have more questions. Thanks again.


no problem, i hope i helped a little
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?