#1
So I'm in the process of a neck reset on my aria 12 string. Due to its construction the neck needs sawing off as its doweled and epoxied. The saw I've used was half a mm thick but it left about half a mm to a mm of material on the neck block which I need to shave off to get a good contact area for adhering. now losing a mm will probably cause intonation issues and my query is how to rectify that. Do I use a couple slivers of veneer as a shim or can I file the bridge pin side of the saddle slot back a bit to put a rearward angle on the bridge to give back that length lost? The bridge also tore off this guitar and took a thin layer of wood off directly where the bridge mounts so shifting the bridge back when re gluing is not an option without thinning the whole soundboard to the same thickness as the damaged are. My other thinking was to steam off the fret board and move it back on the neck. This will require re fretting and more cost and to be honest I don't want to pour money into it as it only cost me £45. So what would people suggest as the best cheap option? I would leave it slightly shorter and deal with the intonation issues but it's actually a really nice sounding guitar.
Anyway all advice welcome.
Oh and I'm doing a pictorial how to of this that I will post up when complete.
#2
Well first of all, where on earth did oyu get the idea the intonation was right to begin with? The only 12 strings, (AFAIK), which can be "correctly intonated", are electric twelves, which have separate saddles for all 12 strings.

Besides, I have no idea why you're anguishing over this anyway. You said the "bridge was "falling off". Do what you need to with the neck joint, then glue the bridge back on, 1/16" closer the the bottom of the guitar. Problem solved.
#3
Well I know it was damn near perfectly intimated because when tuned properly when each string was played at the 12 fret it was between 2 cents over or 3 cents under pitch +1 octave. If you read the op properly I explain why a bridge move isn't so simple.
#4
Moving the fretboard sounds like insanity to me. If it's a single mm, shim the heel to get it back to where it was or close to. If you need to compensate a bit by shaping the saddle, fine, but angling the slot in the bridge seems like a bad idea because that's a lot of lateral pressure on it of it's canted, which would worry me. Plus the break angle on the angled saddle..etc. My two pence. I'm not a luthier, but those are my first instincts.
Last edited by TomInReno at Mar 29, 2016,
#5
I did a similar reset on my requinto, by sawing down the heel with a fairly wide saw as far as the fretboard. I then filled the gap with epoxy and pushed the neck back by sitting on its belly with blocks at the heel and headstock, and putting a bucket of water on the back to weight it down. I then disguised the repair with black-tinted epoxy, it is a bit wider than it should be, because I bged the cutting and angle the first time.



This method, which I got from Frank Ford's website, frets.com, doesn't affect the intonation, since the fretboard length is not altered.

The nail and the white bog aren't my doing doing, that is Colombian luthery for you.

I haven't tried it on a neck with a truss rod, where you can't saw all the way down, but I think it would be possible to remove the timber from around it with a bit of ingenuity. Something like a very narrow chisel made from a saw blade should do it. Only enough has to be removed so that the neck can be flexed back. Precautions would need to be taken to keep the epoxy off the truss rod.
Last edited by Tony Done at Mar 29, 2016,
#6
I like to think or all possible ways of doing something hence the fretboard suggestion. Just I clarify I mean leaning the saddle away from the sound hole. String tension naturally wants to tip the saddle forwards. Leaning it backwards would actually help counteract that. Leaning the saddle back would also increase the break angle of the strings. to be honest this repair owes me nothing thus far and I can see glue being the only cost so if it kills the guitar then so be it. Also as insane as moving the fretboard sounds I've had to lift over half of it in order to get sufficient clearance to cut around the truss rod without cutting the fretboard. The only how to on aria neck resets i have seen the guy cut the fingerboard off at the 14th fret.
#7
The latest I've seen reported on Franks Fords method is that he saws through the heel as far as he can, then separates the fretboard extension from the body and breaks the last bit of timber that he can't reach with the saw. He used to use a reciprocating bone saw to do it, but he seems to have abandoned that in favour of the simpler neolithic method.
#8
@tony done. That was my initial though for this one but as said the truss rod is in the way. I don't need to worry about epoxying it if I used your method due to its wierd construction. Bending it is the greater issue. Meh, we will see how it goes.
#9
"Just I clarify I mean leaning the saddle away from the sound hole. String tension naturally wants to tip the saddle forwards. Leaning it backwards would actually help counteract that. Leaning the saddle back would also increase the break angle of the strings."

Yeah, no, I get that it's going to be tipped back towards the pegs. Tension comes from both sides so the downward pressure from the strings would still be putting pressure on the saddle down towards the soundboard. The string tension tends to tip the saddle forward when it's set perpendicular to the soundboard, but that would not be the case if it's angled back. It would be pushing it harder toward the pegs. Especially if you're trying to get back a mm or more.

I look forward to seeing some photos of this.
#10
how are you putting the neck back on? also, more then likely you're gonna need a new bridge to cover up the mess the old one left when it de-guitared itself if you feel that you must move it for some reason.

i suggest:
-shim the heel to make up for the lost wood. put the neck back in the correct position.
-slightly larger bridge to cover up the tearout from the old one if needed.
-factory scale and positioning. a good idea since you probably don't wanna drill and ream 12 new pin holes in the through the top and bridge plate slightly offset from the old ones.

you could also try a wider saddle like .250, this might give you additional room to adjust intonation if you have the room.

normal workflow for a new instrument is to establish the bridge location and string height, then set the neck angle to achieve those specs. bridge first, neck second.
Last edited by ad_works at Mar 30, 2016,
#12
Well the bridge fits back where it came out and I've decided to go down a different route as suggested above. I've cut through the heel to truss rod drilled through the heel into the neck block wound it in with a screw and made an angled shim. Im going to wood glue that in screw the heel down and then use the sawdust and some glue to fill the counter sunk hole where the screw is. This solves my intonation issue. Not a particularly great repair but this guitar can now be my new beater.
#13
I was going to suggest that you don't need to saw all the way to the fretboard to get this job done without changing the intonation but I see you got the job done nicely. I have not so far ever sawed a neck completely off. I always like to use a screw or dow on these jobs.
Last edited by skido13 at Mar 31, 2016,
#15
Epoxied necks are just such a pain in the Arse though. I know Eko necks are tone killers but the electric guitar style neck just makes the job of setting neck angle so damned easy. Although the guitar I will be making will use the old as hell technique of glue less dovetail join with a horizontal dowel through the block and dovetail to secure it.