#1
Hey all! After playing guitar for over 10 years I’ve finally decided to start taking my rig seriously and dive into the world of gear. I’ve always taken the approach that the “player is more important than the gear” but playing a $99 guitar (ESP M10) through a Crate vintage club 50 2x12 combo amp (in dire need of repair) is unsurprisingly not letting me get the tones I’d like. But I know nothing about gear.

I’m currently splitting my time between two styles: indie rock and doom/stoner metal. So my question is this:

Is there any standout gear that can truly give me a good sound in both styles or am I going to have to more or less build toward two separate rigs?

Thanks!
#2
You can definitely do it with one rig, although you may have to compromise your indie tone. Depends what sort of indie rock you mean though. I would ask in this thread if I were you, most if not all of the posters love good clean tones and heavy doom tones, they will be able to help you out. https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?p=33901644#post33901644

Personally I would just get the Crate repaired and get a high gain fuzz or distortion pedal to run into the drive channel. I've got a cheap Chinese Rat clone that works great for doom (this thing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRkC5oZ2nwk). And a new guitar obviously. I find p90 pickups get a good middle ground between good indie tones and good heavy tones. They won't do brutal metal so well but doom/stoner is usually better with a more vintagey sound. Or just a normal les paul type guitar would work, wouldn't do proper jangly indie though, which p90s will juuuust about do. A telecaster with a humbucker in the bridge could work also (or just with single coils, listen to Mouth Of The Architect for an example of how doomy stuff sounds with standard tele pickups). So yeah again depends what you mean by indie rock.
Last edited by korinaflyingv at Mar 30, 2016,
#3
My amp with no fx turned on is a beautiful, glassy clean (Randall RM with Blackface module) and I use a frickin' Mustang and it gets pretty hefty and chuggy with just a Suhr Riot or MI Audio Crunch Box or Tech 21 Sansamp GT2. A DS1 or Rat won't do it with single coils, it turns into a can of bees. With humbuckers it works even better, you just need a good distortion pedal. And an amp with a good clean tone.
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#4
P90s are an excellent suggestion. Lots of indie bands use them, and they were a part of the original heavy metal tone of Tony Iommi.

They come in all forms, too: there are singlecoil and HB sized P90s, as well as the Seymour Duncan P-Rails. IOW, there are P90 options for any kind of guitar you prefer.
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#5
It's actually very easy. A lot of doom and stoner metal is based on really loud clean amps with fuzz pedals or powerful amps with fuzzy overdrive. Either of those kinds of amps would work wonderfully for indie rock. A good example of an amp currently in production that works perfectly for this application is the Orange OR100 or the Thunderverb 200. Orange is one of the best and most accessible brands for doom and stoner. Other amps include Ampegs, Sovteks, Verellens, Sunns, Matamps, and Hiwatts but many of them are out of production and hard to come by. You can make due with any loud and punchy amp though. Just add a fuzz pedal.

Guitar doesn't matter much. The only thing I would stay away from are Strat bridge pickups and EMGs.
Last edited by JELIFISH19 at Mar 30, 2016,
#6
I think the Crate you're currently using s a good clean to crunchy tonal palette. Maybe swap for better speaker, say Eminence. Then pick a Rat pedal and maybe something like a Fly rig by Sansamp or CM Quattro
https://carlmartin.com/quattro/

There's really nothing special about Stoner tone, dull eq setting, fuzz and distortion or overdrive piled onto it.
#7
LP Classic or similar would work well since they have coil tap. Can't really go wrong with that; it'll never be the same sound as a tele with singles but it'll do the job.
#8
That amp should be fine... Get it repaired. Get a decent guitar (style isn't terribly important for either genre) and a fuzz pedal and/or a heavy overdrive.
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#9
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Hey all! After playing guitar for over 10 years I’ve finally decided to start taking my rig seriously and dive into the world of gear. I’ve always taken the approach that the “player is more important than the gear” but playing a $99 guitar (ESP M10) through a Crate vintage club 50 2x12 combo amp (in dire need of repair) is unsurprisingly not letting me get the tones I’d like. But I know nothing about gear.

I’m currently splitting my time between two styles: indie rock and doom/stoner metal. So my question is this:

Is there any standout gear that can truly give me a good sound in both styles or am I going to have to more or less build toward two separate rigs?

Thanks!


Black Arts Tone Works Fuzz - I run the Pharaoh Fuzz in a fairly clean amp, Mesa Lonestar Special, and it is ferocious. A decent tube amp with a good fuzz and an overdrive will handle both scenarios pretty well.
#10
An Orange Rockerverb would be nice for both.
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#11
Quote by reverb66
Black Arts Tone Works Fuzz - I run the Pharaoh Fuzz in a fairly clean amp, Mesa Lonestar Special, and it is ferocious. A decent tube amp with a good fuzz and an overdrive will handle both scenarios pretty well.


Yep.
I've got the BAT Black Forest and the Sarcophagus (Pharaoh & LSTR) and either would work great for doom.
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#12
I dare say you could get something passable but you run the risk of having to compromise for one (or both!) of those types of music, and getting something versatile enough to sound good for both might cost as much as two separate rigs where you don't need as much versatility.

I'm not saying not to go down the one rig route- it may well be possible, and it depends on other things like how much room you have, whether you need the different tones on the one gig, etc. etc. but I'm just putting that first sentence in so that you're aware of the tradeoff, just in case you aren't.
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#13
Wow thanks a lot everyone!
So the consensus seems to be to fix up my amp for now and save up for an Orange stack down the road? And look for a guitar with P90 pickups.

I recently tried Tony Iommi's signature Epi SG and the Sensei Jr. by Reverend (supposed to be their take on Les Paul Jr crossed with an SG?) but the shop's amp and pedal selection was VERY limited. They both felt good, but I didn't have a chance to experiment with them enough on that trip. Is anyone familiar with either of these two guitars? Are those on the right track?

I've seen the Pharaoh is several Doom and Stoner guys' signal chains so that is on my list to check out.
Anyone tried the Boss fz-2? I heard that was the secret weapon that Electric Wizard used for their signature tone.

Thanks again, guys!
#14
You don't necessarily need the stack, but I agree: a good Orange tube amp will do ya right.

I haven't tried THAT Sensei, but I do have the one with the RailHammer Chisel HBs. Great feeling guitar. Despite being fairly thick, the korina helps keep the weight down. Upper fret access is very good. Neck dive is negligible, especially with a good strap.

I also own a couple other Reverends with P90s, and can say theirs are among my favorite stock P90s. I'd recommend any of their P90 axes for indie, but if it is the doom visual aesthetic that concerns you, your next best bet in Reverend's lineup might be the Sensei 290 or a Ron Asheton sig (a V with 3 P90s). Currently, they only make it in orange, but you might be able to find a used one in white or black.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
Last edited by dannyalcatraz at Mar 30, 2016,
#15
If you're looking for One Rig To Run Them All, you still probably want to consider a Variax and a modeler.
#16
Godin has produced a few nifty P90 equipped guitars. I've been looking at an out of production solidbody LPclone for myself, but saw this, and thought you might dig it:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Godin-Core-CT-P90-P-90-Carve-Top-Sunburst-Chambered-Free-USA-shipping-/301849919577?hash=item4647a84059:g:c~gAAOSw0HVWFT6l

In addition, I got one of these Fret King Esprit IIIs this year. Definitely worthy of consideration:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cT6Nf4Tkp0k&sns=em

In addition to the Reverend Sensei Jrs and 290, I thought you might want to look at the p90 equipped Warhawks (24.75") and Jetstreams (25.5"). Depending on the year, each has been made in a variety of configurations, 290, 390 hardtail, 390 with tremolo. Here's one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFDplwKtUR0&sns=em
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
Last edited by dannyalcatraz at Mar 31, 2016,
#17
I have a Godin LG like this


I swapped the soapbar pickups for Joe Barden and got some really nice detail but it is noisy.
I love the sound but on high gain it is very noisy...which might be part of the esthetic, who knows? Very fast playable guitar, natural wood feel, I honestly recommend that or something similar by Godin, I know they have a humbucker version of the same guitar.

I don't think it will be a need to go for soapbars per se, unless you really want to, but you'd have to have a noisegate handy for the high gain stuff, it is messy.
#18
Well, P90s are singlecoils, albeit big and snarly ones. So yeah, there may be noise.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#19
From what I understand, Gibson introduced them as they wanted to compete against the Fender single coils at the time, but they got dropped after Les Paul started pushing the humbucker pickups. The thing I don't like about soapbar pickups is the fact that they are weirder shape and couldn't be easily swapped with any of the other ones, but from what I hear there are humbucker and single coil versions that have the character of a P90.
I wanted to have one guitar with them though as I've always liked their character, especially on half distorted crunch tones.
#20
Easier to swap those than dog-ears, I'd imagine.

Soapbars are similar in physical dimension to miniHBs, but not exactly. And some miniHBs can sound a lot like P90s.*

And, of course, there are all kinds of pickup makers these days offering HB-sized and singlecoil-sized P90s, with varying results.


* Fret-King has a nifty axe called the Ventura. It has been made in a variety of configurations, including the one I want: bridge HB and miniHBs in the middle & neck positions.
http://www.zzounds.com/item--FRKVENTURA?siid=179567

All of the HB equipped Venturas also have a linear (as opposed to binary) coil-splitting system called Vari-coil. IOW, the more you turn the knob, the more like singlecoils your HBs will sound.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
Last edited by dannyalcatraz at Mar 31, 2016,
#21
The Crate Vintage Club 50 is a really great amplifier. Arguably one of the best amps that Crate produced. If you want to save up for an Orange, by all means go ahead, but your Crate will get the job done perfectly fine for now.

My recommendation regarding the Crate: Get some fresh tubes loaded into it. JJ EL84 power tubes and JJ ECC83 tubes for the preamp. Upgrade the speakers - for both indie and doomy stuff, a greenback style speaker like the Eminence Private Jack would work really well. They can handle the low end of the dooooom and they have that nice woody bark for the indie stuff. I'd also suggest hunting around for a 1x15 guitar cab to run as an extension if you really want to shake the stage (not necessary, but it would be pretty awesome).

As for a guitar - I think an Epiphone ES-339 P90 Pro would be a fine instrument. An Epiphone Casino with P90's would also be pretty cool. Quite a few Indie musicians use the hollowbody Epiphone guitars. Some doom guys as well.
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#22
With 4 channels each with 3 modes, dual rectifiers, and 100/50 watt switching for each channel plus a bold/spongy switch along with a few pedals the Mesa Roadster is the most versatile amps I've ever owned.

Fender cleans to brutal modern high gain !
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#23
Quote by Evilnine
With 4 channels each with 3 modes, dual rectifiers, and 100/50 watt switching for each channel plus a bold/spongy switch along with a few pedals the Mesa Roadster is the most versatile amps I've ever owned.

Fender cleans to brutal modern high gain !


That is an amazing amp but for the stoner style you need a farted out fuzzed up channel, something like fuzz +crunch gain so why go in the 3k range while you can get it simply with 2 pedals. It would be like getting a Ferrari to do pizza deliveries
#24
It would be like getting a Ferrari to do pizza deliveries


That guy is getting a tip.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#25
Quote by dannyalcatraz
That guy is getting a tip.




That's my Doom/stoner time:
http://www.kompoz.com/music/collaboration/512746;jsessionid=FFCCAEC86B758FA881350583041F12EB

Clean amp, distortion and fuzz set before it, all done in Amplitube.