#1
Hey,
I’m doing a weekly (or every few days) “discussion” on this forum.

By discussion i mean:
- i make a statement and you agree or disagree and give your opinion,
- just 1 post and not a back and forth discussion to keep it clear for forum browsers
- after a week or so i’ll bundle the global opinions in 1 post
- start your post with agree or disagree so i can keep a score

This weeks statement is a bold one:

100 Watt amps are History.
By this i mean who has a use for a 100 Watt tubeamp these days?

My opinion:
I think there is no more use for these amps.
Or the venue is to small or it has a PA system.
I personally use a 30 Watt amp and have never had to gun it to the max to be loud enough.
I think lower output gives you a more useable volume knob on the amp.

NOW YOUR OPINION?
#2
Disagree

100 Watt tube amps have there place

My opinion
I agree that in most settings that 100 Watts is overkill.I personally used a 60 watt tube combo for all gigs.However the old stadium rockers of the eighties and nineties are not dead yet and their fans still like to see and hear that full stack on stage.Not to mention some people just still like them.Are they necessary? No.
Do people still like them?Of course.
They are not yet dead.
#3
Disagree

They are still there and sell
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#4
I disagree with the notion that 100 watt tube amps are "history". Sure, not everyone needs a massive 100 watt beast, I mainly use a 20 watt all tube head into a 1x12, but it all comes down to preference and how one uses their gear.

A 100 watt amp will obviously have the advantage in clean headroom over my 20 watter, and for those who are using a modeling platform or even just a large traditional pedalboard this headroom is nice to have.

Don't forget about attenuators, either. A co-guitarist of mine will often pull out a vintage 100 watt Marshall Plexi for a gig and run it with an attenuator. He can get all the tones he needs, from clean to blistering lead, just from rolling the volume knob up or down.

Sure, if you personally don't have a use for a 100 watter, it can be overkill. But, that doesn't mean they still don't have their place.
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#5
Disagree.

More power = more headroom, which typically translates to a more wide open dynamic range and more clearly defined transients, compared to a lower powered amp operating at the same volume.

This even applies when using a lot of preamp distortion - if the power amp is completely clean and uncompressed you're going to get a much tighter hi-gain sound with better definition in the mix.

For that reason, as long as people still use tube amps, people will continue to use high wattage tube amps, because there will always be situations in which the extra headroom is beneficial.
I like analogue Solid State amps that make no effort to be "tube-like", and I'm proud of it...

...A little too proud, to be honest.
#7
Disgree

I don't play gigs where I need that kind of power but I think there are people who have reached a level of performance where they think it is necessary. For myself personally I don't want to drag around and 100 watt power heads and 4X12 cabs to play the kind of gigs I play but as long as there are players buying them they won't history. There will always be a market for them.
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#8
Disagree.

Volume has nothing to do with it. Nobody runs them full-tilt anyway. In a modern metal setting, players these days are playing intricate rhythms and want it to sound massive, yet tight. 100 watts provides the headroom to keep the power tubes clean so that you can hear everything clearly, even with heavy low-end.
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#9
A lot of guitar and amp designers try out stuff on bassists who are a bit less conservative in their tastes. In the bass world, high power tube amps are basically dead except for the particularly nostalgic. I personally don't think it'll be too long before guitarists embrace the type of thing MarkBass and Eden do.
#10
Quote by smb
A lot of guitar and amp designers try out stuff on bassists who are a bit less conservative in their tastes. In the bass world, high power tube amps are basically dead except for the particularly nostalgic. I personally don't think it'll be too long before guitarists embrace the type of thing MarkBass and Eden do.


True, but there is an inherent difference between guitar amplification and bass amplification. The bass's signal is generally stronger and carries more information, thus amplification is about the truest representation of the signal. Guitar is weak in comparison, and relies on the amplifier to color the tone. Tubes do a great job of that.
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#11
I don't think the 100W tube amp itself as a concept is dead, but I think we will see more lower wattage tube amps enter that market. They have less tubes to replace, and most guitarists don't need more than 50W anyway. People will always keep the 800s, 5150s, JVMs and such alive as long as tubes still exist, but new tube amps will gradually get lower in wattage on average.
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#13
Agreed, with a disclaimer.


The only reason i agree is because 100watt tube heads are THE most frequently rerurned music equipment, because MOST people do not know how they work and they cant crank them so they never get "the sound" and thus it is rerurned.


As far as practical application there isn't much room left for high wattage amplifiers because if the venue is large enough to constitute it, then you can bet your ass its miced.


No nothing will ever be quite like plugging into a roaring full 100watt stack, but the days of it being necessary are long gone.

Unless you are George Lynch with an awsome desert/stone "amp a theater"

The lower wattage brethren of the classic amps the plexi the jcm800 etc...will take the front lines over the high powered siblings without a doubt.

This is sad but true. And i personally own a 800 and a 5150.
#14
There will always be a place for 100 watters. They are probably no longer necessary since a SM57 and 50,000 watt line array house PA system will provide all the dynamic headroom a guitarist could ever want. Folks will always buy em though.
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#15
Agreed. The only tube amps worth having are 85 watt ones


More seriously, I mostly disagree. Are big tube amps ever the most sensible option anymore? Possibly not. But musically, aesthetically or even sentimentally, lots of us love our big, expensive, noisy space heaters, and since we're making music, there's plenty of room for that kind of affectation.
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#16
Someone better notify Peavey they make 6505 heads at 120W

IDK I don't think 100w toobies are as outdated as you may think, I love my 6505+ and Mesa Roadster!

The Roadster is 4 channels all of which have a 100/50W switch, even at lower volumes the 100w sounds different than 50w.

I can get either of mine to sound good at home studio volumes and it's nice to have the headroom if I need it.

Big block V8 engines are in no way shape or form fuel efficient, but try telling a hot rodder the big block V8s are dead
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Last edited by Evilnine at Apr 7, 2016,
#17
Quote by JustRooster
True, but there is an inherent difference between guitar amplification and bass amplification. The bass's signal is generally stronger and carries more information, thus amplification is about the truest representation of the signal. Guitar is weak in comparison, and relies on the amplifier to color the tone. Tubes do a great job of that.


Huh?
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#18
It's true. 101 watt amps are the future because they are one louder.
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#19
Quote by Arby911
Huh?


Don't take it as data literally. I don't recall the proper term for it.
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#20
Having more wattage than you need is not necessarily a bad thing. You don't need to crank up your amp (and many times that's not even preferred, unless you are after a specific tone) and amps have a volume control for a reason. If you want to make sure your tone will stay clean, the more wattage, the better. To my understanding high wattage amps are preferred in heavier genres because the tone is mostly based on pre-amp distortion and people want the power amp to stay clean. And of course if you need clean tones at high volumes, high wattage is preferred.

But of course if you are after a cranked up tone, a high wattage amp is an overkill.
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#21
not dead yet. maybe a candidate for the endangered species list but not dead. what is perhaps dead is the need to crank those 100 watters at full blast. many smaller venues no longer allow you to do this nor is it needed most of the time. a 100 watter with a master volume maybe goosed with an overdrive can provide you with great sound and some headroom which may be needed to keep the sound consistent.

OP perhaps you need to consider trying topics that haven't been beat to death and might actually spark some actual conversation
Last edited by monwobobbo at Apr 7, 2016,
#22
Disagree.

Diezel VH4 = 100 W
Bogner Uberschall Twin Jet = 150+ W
Orange Thunderverb 200 = 200 W
Soldano SLO = 100 W

Quote by JustRooster
Don't take it as data literally. I don't recall the proper term for it.

You need more power for the Low end.
#23
Quote by Vincesax


This weeks statement is a bold one:

100 Watt amps are History.
By this i mean who has a use for a 100 Watt tubeamp these days?



This works out to be a weekly *troll*.
#24
disagree. bigger amps often sound better at really low volumes. they also have more headroom for cleans or high gain preamp distortion.
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#25
Quote by Evilnine
Someone better notify Peavey they make 6505 heads at 120W

IDK I don't think 100w toobies are as outdated as you may think, I love my 6505+ and Mesa Roadster!

The Roadster is 4 channels all of which have a 100/50W switch, even at lower volumes the 100w sounds different than 50w.

I can get either of mine to sound good at home studio volumes and it's nice to have the headroom if I need it.

Big block V8 engines are in no way shape or form fuel efficient, but try telling a hot rodder the big block V8s are dead


Hate to burst your bubble big dawg but the big block v8s you speak of HAVE mostly been replaced with LS engines and hair dryers (turbos)

But honestly i own 4 big block chevys and i always will because nothing SOUNDS better and its pure nostalgia......and easy to work on.
Last edited by Dick Savage at Apr 7, 2016,
#26
Quote by Ippon

You need more power for the Low end.


I think Nial from Hovercraft would disagree. Look at his 20W Dwarvenaut. Tons of Sunn Model T like low end.
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#28
Quote by Vincesax
By this i mean who has a use for a 100 Watt tubeamp these days?


If I have to prop a door open, a 100 watt amp is better than a 10 watt amp. The accompanying 4×12 cab would be great to stamp on to reach the top shelf if you don't have a stool. If you have a burglar coming up the stairs, pushing your 100 watt half stack would surely stop him. I don't know about you, but I rather like the idea of not being killed by a burglar. So yeah. I have many uses for a 100 watt amp beyond their intended purpose and I think that others probably can and have found similar uses for them.
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#29
From a recording standpoint (that's my job):

bigger wattage amps have bigger transformers (translates to cleaner, bigger low end) and a whoooooole lot more headroom.

For hard rock, high wattage amps just plain work better.
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#30
disagree.


they'll always have a place in the amp market.
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#31
Agree and disagree.

I agree that 100 watt heads are overkill for most situations (i.e - a small venue isn't going to let you crank it up).

But I also disagree that 100 watt amps are useless, because more wattage = more headroom/bigger low end (from larger transformers, etc.).

Personally, I'm a big fan of 50/60-watt heads. Still offers big low end and plenty of headroom, but also offers a more useable power band (You can turn it up and hit the sweet spot a bit sooner than you can w/100+ watt heads). Also, having 2 power tubes instead of 4 = slightly cheaper maintenance.
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#32
Seems like many said the same about temperamental tubes amps in general during the transition from vacuum tubes to diodes and transistors in the electronics industry.
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#33
No more dead than an acoustic guitar, classical violin or grand piano.
#34
Quote by Seriden
No more dead than an acoustic guitar, classical violin or grand piano.




I have over 1000 watts of tube power in my personal studio. Few hundred more in my house.

bite me bitchesssss.
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#35
Quote by Vincesax
Hey,
I’m doing a weekly (or every few days) “discussion” on this forum.

By discussion i mean:
- i make a statement and you agree or disagree and give your opinion,
- just 1 post and not a back and forth discussion to keep it clear for forum browsers
- after a week or so i’ll bundle the global opinions in 1 post
- start your post with agree or disagree so i can keep a score

This weeks statement is a bold one:

100 Watt amps are History.
By this i mean who has a use for a 100 Watt tubeamp these days?

My opinion:
I think there is no more use for these amps.
Or the venue is to small or it has a PA system.
I personally use a 30 Watt amp and have never had to gun it to the max to be loud enough.
I think lower output gives you a more useable volume knob on the amp.

NOW YOUR OPINION?


Agree:

1) I think they are effectively obsolete as far as a necessity and they tend to have a sweetspot that is too loud for nearly any venue, even larger venues like concert halls etc. I also use a 30 watt Mesa and I have never had to crank it past 6, even on a outdoor Festival stage. You get a better stage sound as a band if the guitar amps aren't too loud on stage, which makes things infinitely easier for the soundman to mix the band properly, which results in a better sound out in the audience.

2) 100 Watt amps can sound different and that sound is still sought after - so I think that as far as a studio tool it's still relevant, especially for larger studio facilities. Also, some 100 watt amps are very well designed ( i.e. boutique amps etc.) so that you can great tones at lower volumes levels, so it's not really fair to paint them all with the same brush.