Poll: house?
Poll Options
View poll results: house?
own / prefer to own
30 52%
rent / prefer to rent
6 10%
want to own but can't see yourself affording it
22 38%
Voters: 58.
Page 1 of 4
#1
Just something I've been mulling over last few weeks. Do you own, or plan on owning a house? That includes condos, townhouses, and single houses.

I'm leaning toward no at this point. Guestimating the economics of it, liable to be a poor form of investment and the cost to utility ratio is not very good. Curious to get other perspectives on this.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#2
I want to own my own home, but the property market is fucked over here atm so I probably won't be able to for a couple of years
#3
what's a condo?

yeah id love my own house one day, renting sucks and you never feel fully able to settle or make a place your own

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#4
Yah ownership is definitely in my future. Can't stand renting, hate dealing with close neighbors, landlords, all of that shit and then not having actually invested anything.


"Every day I wonder how many things I am dead wrong about."
#5
Not anytime soon. I can't really get to a point where I view it as an investment as much as a liability. It's so expensive and I don't spend much time at home anyway (i.e., cost-to-utility ratio issue, as you mentioned)--it's a place to sleep and keep some stuff. Perhaps as I get older and priorities/lifestyle/income changes, I'll want a house.

That said, I'm currently renting a house for a few months, which is okay.
#7
Quote by seanlang01
Yah ownership is definitely in my future. Can't stand renting, hate dealing with close neighbors, landlords, all of that shit and then not having actually invested anything.


yah i hate renting

no idea how long ill be here in terms of years

the landlord can put rent up when they want really

you cant paint the walls or anything

its all a bit annoying and impersonal

just helping to pay off someone elses mortgage, id rather be paying my rent on my own investment

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#8
I bought a new house 3 years ago. 1480 square foot, stucco exterior, southwestern style (but not flat roofed like most homes around here). I had a water softening system installed for $4,000 and 4,000 watts of solar panels for another $22,000 (built a solar "eave" to shade the living room windows). It's the nicest house I've ever lived in and I make money off the electric company every month.

Unless you have a big wad of money I'd recommend against buying a home. I had to drop $55,000 up front to get my place and I still owe $100,000 on it. I could pay it off and have about $80,000 left in my bank account, but I like having some cash liquidity in case of emergencies.
#9
Quote by TobusRex
I bought a new house 3 years ago. 1480 square foot, stucco exterior, southwestern style (but not flat roofed like most homes around here). I had a water softening system installed for $4,000 and 4,000 watts of solar panels for another $22,000 (built a solar "eave" to shade the living room windows). It's the nicest house I've ever lived in and I make money off the electric company every month.

Unless you have a big wad of money I'd recommend against buying a home. I had to drop $55,000 up front to get my place and I still owe $100,000 on it. I could pay it off and have about $80,000 left in my bank account, but I like having some cash liquidity in case of emergencies.


man it must be so hard bein u

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#10
Quote by EndTheRapture51
man it must be so hard bein u


Cut me some slack. I'm working class and worked hard for everything I have. When I bought the house I was looking to my retirement, hence the solar panels. I plan on dying in that house someday (surrounded by dozens of law enforcement corpses).
#11
It's never been an ambition of mine because it's always seemed unobtainable. It'd be nice to have the quintessential family home for my kids to grow up in though. Maybe something to think about when i earn more money.
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#12
I feel like renting is like throwing money down the toilet, which is why I own my own house. Looking back on it though I think I might have been better off getting a condo. I've had so much shit break within the first year of living in my house that it has me wondering what's gonna be next pretty much every day of the week.
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#13
@lyle: condo is an apartment/flat that you own.

My elaboration on ownership:

Aside from "having a place to call your own", people usually point to 2 advantages: it's an investment and it builds equity.

As an investment, it's high risk with low returns. Yes, some people come into luck buying low and selling high, but this is like trying to time the stock market. It's almost pure speculation and luck. By all other measures, it's bad practice as an investment. The amount of principle put in does not yield much net return after factoring in: inflation, property tax, HOA fees, maintenance costs, higher utility, & brokerage fees. Instead of a down payment, let's say you put that 50k in a well balanced, semi conservative index portfolio or across multiple portfolios (401k, roth IRA, etc). Even at a meh growth rate of 8% for 8 years, that's $32,000 just on the initial principle not even factoring in compounding interest! Many people would be lucky to get that much on their net profit when selling the house during the same amount of time...if they're lucky to be breaking even at all. Which also leads to another point, this is a lot of money funded into one asset, which is a huge risk.

As for building equity, it's not a bad way to do so, but is there no other way? Monthly mortgage payments are usually hundreds more than rent (adding both rent and utility). While your rent is "going into a black hole", you could save that difference into investment / tax-efficient retirement accounts, which can grow. Compounding interest works for you instead of against you in the case of 30 year mortgage interest. Again we have to factor in the opportunity cost of the ROI you could be getting against the equity.

As for utility, it doesn't seem to align with my priorities. I like minimalist, uncluttered, and small spaces. Most of my day-to-day is spent in practically 3 rooms total. Aside from working and resting, I prefer to be outside. Don't plan on ever having kids either.

At this point, the only objective reason I'd have for buying a house is to use it as a rental property that has someone else building my equity. But jury's out on the financial balance of that...

The nonobjective reason I'd have is that I'd like a nice garage for my cars

...modes and scales are still useless.


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Last edited by Xiaoxi at Apr 8, 2016,
#14
Quote by Xiaoxi
Monthly mortgage payments are usually hundreds more than rent (adding both rent and utility).


Nope. While that can be the case, it's often not.

There are 2 rental homes that I know of in a several block radius of my home. Both are smaller and worth significantly less than mine. (25% or more less).

Both rent for 15-20% more than my PITI payment, and that does NOT include utilities. There's a waiting list for them. (Both are managed by a friend of mine, who also manages about 25 others.) I could rent my home for twice what I pay for it, require a 2 year contract and a first month, last month and full month security deposit and it would be rented inside 48 hours...

Buying a home can be a great investment if you are in the right place, choose wisely and don't plan on moving for a while. (Or even if you do if being a landlord appeals to you...)

I have a 3 car detached garage...
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Last edited by Arby911 at Apr 8, 2016,
#15
Quote by Xiaoxi
@lyle: condo is an apartment/flat that you own.

My elaboration on ownership:

Aside from "having a place to call your own", people usually point to 2 advantages: it's an investment and it builds equity.

As an investment, it's high risk with low returns. Yes, some people come into luck buying low and selling high, but this is like trying to time the stock market. It's almost pure speculation and luck. By all other measures, it's bad practice as an investment. The amount of principle put in does not yield much net return after factoring in: inflation, property tax, HOA fees, maintenance costs, higher utility, & brokerage fees. Instead of a down payment, let's say you put that 50k in a well balanced, semi conservative index portfolio or across multiple portfolios (401k, roth IRA, etc). Even at a meh growth rate of 8% for 8 years, that's $32,000 just on the initial principle not even factoring in compounding interest! Many people would be lucky to get that much on their net profit when selling the house during the same amount of time...if they're lucky to be breaking even at all. Which also leads to another point, this is a lot of money funded into one asset, which is a huge risk.

As for building equity, it's not a bad way to do so, but is there no other way? Monthly mortgage payments are usually hundreds more than rent (adding both rent and utility). While your rent is "going into a black hole", you could save that difference into investment / tax-efficient retirement accounts, which can grow. Compounding interest works for you instead of against you in the case of 30 year mortgage interest. Again we have to factor in the opportunity cost of the ROI you could be getting against the equity.

As for utility, it doesn't seem to align with my priorities. I like minimalist, uncluttered, and small spaces. Most of my day-to-day is spent in practically 3 rooms total. Aside from working and resting, I prefer to be outside. Don't plan on ever having kids either.

At this point, the only objective reason I'd have for buying a house is to use it as a rental property that has someone else building my equity. But jury's out on the financial balance of that...

The nonobjective reason I'd have is that I'd like a nice garage for my cars


You and I are basically on the same page
#16
With my career, my wife and I don't ever see ourselves staying in the same city longer than 5 years at a time. Makes house ownership hard. Plus, HOA's are fucking lame and generally won't let me play with my powertools with the garage door open.
#17
Most people don't buy a house with the intention that is just an efficient means to make money though. The possibility that you will at least not lose all of your investment as opposed to just renting (by square footage usually more expensive than a monthly mortgage payment, excluding al the other home ownership costs obvs.) is a bonus to having the pride and "freedom" of ownership and the likelihood of more space.

Just depends on what you value more.


"Every day I wonder how many things I am dead wrong about."
#18
Quote by Arby911
Nope. While that can be the case, it's often not.

There are 2 rental homes that I know of in a several block radius of my home. Both are smaller and worth significantly less than mine. (25% or more less).

Both rent for 15-20% more than my PITI payment, and that does NOT include utilities. There's a waiting list for them. (Both are managed by a friend of mine, who also manages about 25 others.) I could rent my home for twice what I pay for it, require a 2 year contract and a first month, last month and full month security deposit and it would be rented inside 48 hours...

Buying a home can be a great investment if you are in the right place, choose wisely and don't plan on moving for a while. (Or even if you do if being a landlord appeals to you...)

I have a 3 car detached garage...

I think the experiences vary widely by area. A starter home where I am that's not a POS and close to the metro highway is like 400k. Mortgage is easily more than rent. My friend has a crappy condo that he wants to rent for more than his mortgage, but for that rent figure one could get a luxury apartment down the street which is much newer and has a lot more amenities.

Like you said, it can work out if you make the right choice, but again this is literally hundreds of thousands of dollars riding on one bet.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#19
(In an investing kind of way) eeehhhhhh probably not.


http://fortune.com/2016/01/11/real-estate-bubble/


Need to get NeoEvil11 in here though


It's a good investment if you actually have the means, and aren't trying to go hard on debt financing. Then you have some great things that can add up like favorable homestead exemptions in your state/large amounts of gain on primary residence sales (with certain rules met) not taxable/etc.


Then it's like: how much work do I really want to do to make these Schedule E's good/etc.
.
Last edited by Fat Lard at Apr 8, 2016,
#20
Mortgage payments seem around the same price or less than an equivalent rent for an area. But then there's the risk of redundancy and repossession which is waaaay scarier than just being unable to pay rent and moving back with the parents.

The problem is saving up for a deposit for the house/flat. Especially on a single persons income.

But yeah I'd love to own my own place. I am 24 now and still without a sense of permanance in my life. I'd like to be saving up for things like a nice dining table, doing DIY on weekends, maybe having a garden and growing my own veg and stuff. The way it is though I'm in a 2 bedroom flat which isn't...bad but I only own a few bits of furniture and I can affect any sort of change in the place beyond non permanent things. Even putting a poster up on the wall is something that could incur charges when I move out, so stuff like painting the wall and making it a truly homely argument is out of the question.

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#21
Quote by Xiaoxi
I think the experiences vary widely by area. A starter home where I am that's not a POS and close to the metro highway is like 400k. Mortgage is easily more than rent. My friend has a crappy condo that he wants to rent for more than his mortgage, but for that rent figure one could get a luxury apartment down the street which is much newer and has a lot more amenities.

Like you said, it can work out if you make the right choice, but again this is literally hundreds of thousands of dollars riding on one bet.


I agree. Would it make financial sense to move?
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
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#22
Yeah, I know the neighborhood I want and everything.
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#23
I built and own my own house. We have 27 acres with 2 acres cleared on oceanfront which is surprisingly affordable in extremely rural Canada.The build took three years to complete. We did it ourselves, contracting out the septic and well and interior plumbing. Could never imagine living in the city or an apartment or condo. That's just me though.
#24
Quote by Fat Lard

It's a good investment if you actually have the means, and aren't trying to go hard on debt financing. Then you have some great things that can add up like favorable homestead exemptions in your state/large amounts of gain on primary residence sales (with certain rules met) not taxable/etc.
Genuinely would like to hear you elaborate on the math here.

If one has the means, why is it a good investment as opposed to putting that same money in a conservative portfolio?

Also I factored tax deductions in my assessment.

Quote by Arby911
I agree. Would it make financial sense to move?
I'm not aware of any place with cheap housing that I would want to move to. Proximity to a major world class city is important to me. Can't stand small / quiet town America

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#25
Quote by Xiaoxi

I'm not aware of any place with cheap housing that I would want to move to. Proximity to a major world class city is important to me. Can't stand small / quiet town America


Dallas, Houston, Austin, San Antonio.

Don't be a "Durr Texas" cunt either, I didn't grow up here but the cities are excellent in many ways.

And suburb housing is cheap. $250K gets you 3,000+ ft^2 of new build with a pool on ~1/4-1/2 acre in a gated community.
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#26
Quote by Arby911
Dallas, Houston, Austin, San Antonio.

Don't be a "Durr Texas" cunt either, I didn't grow up here but the cities are excellent in many ways.

And suburb housing is cheap. $250K gets you 3,000+ ft^2 of new build with a pool on ~1/4-1/2 acre in a gated community.

Actually, you're right. I do have Austin on my radar. Will pay a visit maybe this year or next. Really like the idea of very low income tax. Can't stand 40%+ of my income just flushing down the toilet. And people in TX drive more my speed

Would ideally have liked to move to SoCal but the libtards have ruined it. They suck money and water dry...

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#28
I'd go in on the capital budgeting and whatnot, but uhh, yeah, that's actual work.


(and I don't know anything about real estate investing)


Get a good WACC going and maybe some annuity due thing on the side to deal with the mortgage in a 'bond-sinking' fund kind of way, and mathing (work) the best return, taking advantage of the mortgage interest/points deductions/etc.


Locationing with a bunch of properties and doing Expected Value things with some research/intuition about possibly soon-to-be booming city in a few years to less-risk areas/etc.


Dunno. Real estate is not my specialty, at all, lol. Then again, those as assets are pretty tangible. And could still make you money via rental income/etc.
.
#29
I would rather own my own place than have to deal with landlords for the rest of my life. Where I live rent is ridiculously high for what you get. A small two bed flat costs £1250 per month in rent. Factor in bills and council tax and you're looking at around £1800-£2200 a month.

A mortgage for the property at today's value would be £750-£1000 a month. Much savings to be had. Also, I could actually own a pet, or paint it and live by my own rules instead of abiding by the tenancy agreement.

I cannot wait to be able to own something.
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#30
Quote by Guitardude19
I would rather own my own place than have to deal with landlords for the rest of my life. Where I live rent is ridiculously high for what you get. A small two bed flat costs £1250 per month in rent. Factor in bills and council tax and you're looking at around £1800-£2200 a month.

A mortgage for the property at today's value would be £750-£1000 a month. Much savings to be had. Also, I could actually own a pet, or paint it and live by my own rules instead of abiding by the tenancy agreement.

I cannot wait to be able to own something.


Do ya live in London

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#31
Quote by EndTheRapture51
Do ya live in London


Worse. Surrey.
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#32
Surrey/Sussex must be the worst two places to live in terms of middle class wankers

Like jesus your rent is making Cambridge look cheap

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#33
Quote by Fat Lard

Dunno. Real estate is not my specialty, at all, lol. Then again, those as assets are pretty tangible. And could still make you money via rental income/etc.

Yea but this asset class is even less liquid than stock investments...

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#34
I have to next year. Renting on the free market is too expensive. We're in between two subsidised sectors: social housing and the private homes (mortgage payments are tax deductible). So yeah, I can get a bigger place for less money, but I won't be able to buy untill I get my permanent contract.
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#35
Long-term, I'd quite like to build my own place out in the deep countryside, but I don't expect I'll ever have the skills to achieve that...

Regardless, the further away I am from neighbours or flatmates the better. Flats and apartments are too much of a gamble - one unpleasant neighbour and it's shite. And some neighbours have serious loudness issues even in detached estates.
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#36
lololol I pay $400/month to rent a 1800-sq. ft. house (not counting utilities, but hey) with some friends
#37
I wish I could afford to own my own place. Nothing extravagant—just a condo or a small house. It's an unrealistic dream tbh.
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#38
Quote by EndTheRapture51
Surrey/Sussex must be the worst two places to live in terms of middle class wankers

Like jesus your rent is making Cambridge look cheap


I live in a town that is full of upper middle class and elites. They are the epitome of entitled spoiled shits. They look down on anyone who isn't wealthy. Its full of Tory wankers as well.

Edit: As an example of how cunty people are here, a person was run over and killed and people were more concerned about the potential for their property prices being lowered rather than the person who died. Things like "Its unacceptable for them to have died here, they should have been more careful. What if the house prices lower because of this."

I could have smacked that woman that day....
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Last edited by Guitardude19 at Apr 8, 2016,
#40
Quote by seanlang01
Most people don't buy a house with the intention that is just an efficient means to make money though. The possibility that you will at least not lose all of your investment as opposed to just renting (by square footage usually more expensive than a monthly mortgage payment, excluding al the other home ownership costs obvs.) is a bonus to having the pride and "freedom" of ownership and the likelihood of more space.

Just depends on what you value more.

I take issue with the "freedom" of ownership. While it's under mortgage it ain't yours. It's the bank's. And even after you pay it off, you still have property taxes. So ultimately, who's house is it? The government's.

And the HOA takes much of the other freedom out. Your garage door must be a certain color, your window pane must be a certain style, etc.

And again, depending on the area market, there may be opportunity cost to building equity this way.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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