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#1
Attawapiskat First Nation. Give it a google if you care to. Literally under a state of emergency due to an ongoing suicide crises. Basically no access to safe drinking water, deplorable housing conditions, education, food prices and access to food are major issues, along with a massive number of other social, political, domestic and environmental issues. I left 15 years ago, and I want to go back and try to help, but I have no idea what i could do, and taking my family there is not an option. /blog

pic for reference
#5
That sounds terrible man

Forgive my ignorance, but why do people choose to live there? Is it cultural heritage?
Come back if you want to
And remember who you are
‘Cause there's nothing here for you my dear
And everything must pass
#7
Quote by i_lovemetallica
That sounds terrible man

Forgive my ignorance, but why do people choose to live there? Is it cultural heritage?


It is that. Traditional territory for the last 1000 years or so. The town itself is a federal reserve.
#8
Quote by mastodon1919
nah go back to school bud

School is where I learned about eskimos being the earliest known inhabitants of that snowy part of the world.
If they are teaching something different now I'd love to hear it

I just took a guess about the geography based on the snowy picture
because that school place never taught me much about Canadian geography
Last edited by EyeNon15 at Apr 18, 2016,
#9
Quote by mastodon1919
It is that. Traditional territory for the last 1000 years or so. The town itself is a federal reserve.

We have similar issues in Australia with small Aboriginal reserves......I honestly have no idea what the solution is, but the Government keeps pouring in all this money to try and assist and it somehow goes nowhere, and eventually they're just left with no option but to relocate the inhabitants, which is far from an ideal solution
Come back if you want to
And remember who you are
‘Cause there's nothing here for you my dear
And everything must pass
#10
Quote by EyeNon15
School is where I learned about eskimos being the earliest known inhabitants of that snowy part of the world.
If they are teaching something different now I'd love to hear it

I just took a guess about the geography based on the snowy picture
because that school place never taught me much about Canadian geography


Sorry man i thought you were deliberately throwing out a slur. "Eskimo" isn't really a thing. Traditional name for those peoples is Inuit. Attawapiskat is part of Cree Nation, which is a different native nation all together.
#11
Buffalo canucka
huskie rider
Buffalo canucka
from the heart of Canadia

If you know your history
then you will know where you're coming from
Go back and fix up your shit
and you find it makes a lot of sense

Buffalo canucka
huskie rider
Buffalo canucka
from the heart of Canadia
#12
Quote by mastodon1919
Sorry man i thought you were deliberately throwing out a slur. "Eskimo" isn't really a thing. Traditional name for those peoples is Inuit. Attawapiskat is part of Cree Nation, which is a different native nation all together.

Wikipedia needs to be told that I guess because it's still using "eskimo"
#13
why do people choose to stay there?

I understand pride and heritage, but I also understand lack of jobs, non drinkable water, crime, mass suicides, rampant alcoholism and drugs.

Not meaning to sound like an ass but this is a completely isolated spot in the middle of the forest. Making your life there even without those aforementionned problems would very difficult at best, no?

I understand why first nations hate the reservation system and what happened to their culture during colonization but why do they still stay there? It would seem to be counterintuitive since the reservations are the prisons that the english built for your people. Why choose to stay there when you can just move to toronto or any one of the hundreds of fully functionnal ontario cities.

Moving to toronto wouldn't make them any less of a Cree
#14
Quote by flexiblemile
why do people choose to stay there?

I understand pride and heritage, but I also understand lack of jobs, non drinkable water, crime, mass suicides, rampant alcoholism and drugs.

Not meaning to sound like an ass but this is a completely isolated spot in the middle of the forest. Making your life there even without those aforementionned problems would very difficult at best, no?

I understand why first nations hate the reservation system and what happened to their culture during colonization but why do they still stay there? It would seem to be counterintuitive since the reservations are the prisons that the english built for your people. Why choose to stay there when you can just move to toronto or any one of the hundreds of fully functionnal ontario cities.

Moving to toronto wouldn't make them any less of a Cree

It's because of the Indigenous attachment to the land. Many of the people that live on the reserve would be descended from people who lived and hunted on those lands for a very long time.

It would be like if in our cultures, we had a house handed down to us to live in when our parents died, for generations and generations, until one day the government just cuts off your water and gas and forces you to leave. It's your birthright? Why should you leave?

I get the point your making, and the analogy I used is kinda crap, but hopefully that gives you some idea, however poorly I've phrased it.
Come back if you want to
And remember who you are
‘Cause there's nothing here for you my dear
And everything must pass
#15
yeah i've been reading a bit about this this weekend. really tragic stuff
will someone carry me across ten thousand miles under the silence
#16
@flexiblemile: you don't sound like an ass, its'perfectly reasonable actually. I left for those very reasons, and I wouldn't want to have to bring my son up there, no matter what history and heritage might dictate. I still wish i could do something to help.

@metallica: Exactly this. Good analogy and that's exactly the point/problem. Why would they leave? This is their home, this has always been their home. The government made it their responsibility by force and now refuses to take responsibility.
#17
Also, moving to another place is pretty difficult if you are broke.
Not to mention that coming from relatively isolated places and jumping directly into a big city can be a bitch to integrate.

Ya know the priveledged big city liberals are always lurking and waiting to chastise someone for not having the same social skills as them and conservatives always ready to tell you to go back where you came from.
It's like asking people in trailer parks in Alabama "why don't you move to Atlanta!"
With what car and what rent money?
Some people do it but it's very difficult and not some "just do it" thing
Last edited by EyeNon15 at Apr 18, 2016,
#18
Quote by EyeNon15
Also, moving to another place is pretty difficult if you are broke.
Not to mention that coming from relatively isolated places and jumping directly into a big city can be a bitch to integrate.

Ya know the priveledged big city liberals are always lurking and waiting to chastise someone for not having the same social skills as them and conservatives always ready to tell you to go back where you came from.
It's like asking people in trailer parks in Alabama "why don't you move to Atlanta!"
With what car and what rent money?
Some people do it but it's very difficult and not some "just do it" thing

For sure man. Good points. Its definitely not a "just do it" kinda thing. There's a lot more to it than that.
#19
Quote by mastodon1919
@flexiblemile: you don't sound like an ass, its'perfectly reasonable actually. I left for those very reasons, and I wouldn't want to have to bring my son up there, no matter what history and heritage might dictate. I still wish i could do something to help.

@metallica: Exactly this. Good analogy and that's exactly the point/problem. Why would they leave? This is their home, this has always been their home. The government made it their responsibility by force and now refuses to take responsibility.

Why blame the government when the people themselves there are too lazy to better their community on their own? You can't expect handouts all the time.
#20
Quote by mastodon1919
It is that. Traditional territory for the last 1000 years or so. The town itself is a federal reserve.

that was kind of my point. i just can't imagine what would possess those people centuries ago that that would be a good place to live.
#21
Quote by darkcheef
Why blame the government when the people themselves there are too lazy to better their community on their own? You can't expect handouts all the time.


You're ignorant as hell bud and have no idea what you're talking about.
#22
What are you talking about??? Building a safe water supply is just basic knowledge that everyone should know. I'm mean come on you are just super lazy if you can't build that.
#23
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
this is where this thread falls apart
#24
Quote by Jackintehbox
that was kind of my point. i just can't imagine what would possess those people centuries ago that that would be a good place to live.


Well the traditional territory encompasses about 250,000 square kms. The reserve itself is now about 1.5 square kms.
The land supplied the people with everything they needed to live and thrive for hundreds and hundreds of years. Game, fish, fresh water, tributary access, wood, earth, security, shelter, knowledge. Those are pretty good reasons. I expect the same is true for for any native population for any country on earth if you go back far enough.
#25
@OP: Sorry, but it sounds like a lost cause. In addition to the problems experienced by the people culturally it sounds like there are some massive economic problems due to the remoteness of the location. I don't think the problems can be resolved unless the economics is squared away first, and that isn't going to happen unless a valuable resource is discovered in the area.

Read about the economics of the area in Wiki, and I was shocked.
#26
Quote by mastodon1919
You're ignorant as hell bud and have no idea what you're talking about.

I guess your people can keep living off welfare and not working to make your own situations better if you want I guess, keep blaming the government for all of your problems
#27
Clean water should definately be government responsibility for everywhere in a nation rich as Canada.
Thats basic utilities, not a handout
#28
The Attawapiskat thing is a national embarassment (like the time we let over a thousand aboriginal women get murdered without an investigation).

We treat our native people like animals (but not the kind you like).

As an Ontarian I am deeply sorry for our underfunding and ambivalence toward this issue.
#29
Ultimately, it's about survival. If you choose heritage over survival, that's your choice. The government may have fucked up, because that's the nature of government. It would be a mistake to rely on them to fix their own mess. Unfair, but that's reality. Idealism...or survival?

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#30
Quote by Xiaoxi
Ultimately, it's about survival. If you choose heritage over survival, that's your choice. The government may have fucked up, because that's the nature of government. It would be a mistake to rely on them to fix their own mess. Unfair, but that's reality. Idealism...or survival?

Yah, I've seen it here and near where I grew up as well, although not nearly as bad as what is happening in the OP. Some reservations will be more liberal, they can bring in business and they are doing alright, but generally the more closed and autonomous the worse off the community is. Trade is survival and modernity is Pandora's box to the traditional way of life.

All that being said, and I don't know what the right answer is, but the reservation system was a terrible idea.


"Every day I wonder how many things I am dead wrong about."
#31
I'd say it's unfair to put it as idealism vs survival. How'd we get here?

1. Native communities have their land taken and are relegated to small reserves.
2. The government sponsors mass abduction of native children and places them in "residential schools". In these schools they are beaten, raped, and forced to be "Canadian". See: 60's Swoop.
3. These children return a generation later, unable to speak their own language, unable to hunt and work the land as their forebears. They find themselves in a grey area between "Canadian" and "Cree", unable to find work, unable to find themselves.
4. Those who do move away not only contribute to the (inevitable?) end of their people and culture but often find themselves in Toronto, sitting outside of a Starbucks at Bathurst and Queen drinking listerine, unable to find work or themselves.

Lazy Indians!
#32
Yeah, i don't think its idealism. That would entail some level of unreality, which i can assure you, there is none.
Aside from the modern atrocities of res schools, forced medical experimentation ,forced familial separation and systematic murder and abuse, good old fashioned racism is still a huge barrier, one that isn't going away anytime soon.
#33
Quote by mastodon1919
Yeah, i don't think its idealism. That would entail some level of unreality, which i can assure you, there is none.
Aside from the modern atrocities of res schools, forced medical experimentation ,forced familial separation and systematic murder and abuse, good old fashioned racism is still a huge barrier, one that isn't going away anytime soon.


you'll forgive me for not know the demographics of UG (yet!), but I worry that Americans don't understand the remoteness and hopelessness of these communities.

Ours has not been a Custeresque series of massacres, but rather a war of attrition and assimilation that has been very unkind to these peoples.
#34
Quote by sixgunsound
I'd say it's unfair to put it as idealism vs survival. How'd we get here?

1. Native communities have their land taken and are relegated to small reserves.
2. The government sponsors mass abduction of native children and places them in "residential schools". In these schools they are beaten, raped, and forced to be "Canadian". See: 60's Swoop.
3. These children return a generation later, unable to speak their own language, unable to hunt and work the land as their forebears. They find themselves in a grey area between "Canadian" and "Cree", unable to find work, unable to find themselves.
4. Those who do move away not only contribute to the (inevitable?) end of their people and culture but often find themselves in Toronto, sitting outside of a Starbucks at Bathurst and Queen drinking listerine, unable to find work or themselves.

Lazy Indians!
I understand all of that and it is important to consider, but the bolded attitude is one which I think is a hindrance to the flourishing of any community. Idealism vs survival is an over-simplification, but it's just a point of reference. There's no answer here that will make everyone happy.


"Every day I wonder how many things I am dead wrong about."
#35
that's shitty as fuck dude

you think the government will end up doing anything if this gets enough exposure?


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
#36
Quote by sixgunsound
you'll forgive me for not know the demographics of UG (yet!), but I worry that Americans don't understand the remoteness and hopelessness of these communities.

Ours has not been a Custeresque series of massacres, but rather a war of attrition and assimilation that has been very unkind to these peoples.


I hear you man, but i wouldn't expect anyone to realize the geographical factors of a place they've never heard of. Shit there's people in south Ontario, the farthest north they've gone is Ottawa. But I agree none the less
#37
Quote by JamSessionFreak
that's shitty as fuck dude

you think the government will end up doing anything if this gets enough exposure?


I really don't know man. It's gotten quite a bit of exposure especially in the last several years.
#38
Quote by mastodon1919
I really don't know man. It's gotten quite a bit of exposure especially in the last several years.


A group of Inuit walked 1,000 miles to Ottawa to visit the Prime Minister (Harper) maybe a year ago? When they arrived he, despite knowing of their trip, had left to visit the newly arrived Panda bears at the Toronto Zoo. He did not meet with them.
#39
Quote by mastodon1919
I hear you man, but i wouldn't expect anyone to realize the geographical factors of a place they've never heard of. Shit there's people in south Ontario, the farthest north they've gone is Ottawa. But I agree none the less


I'm definitely guilty. I have been no farther north (in Ontario) than Algonquin Park. Road Trip to Moose Factory? Haha, just kidding. There's no roads that go there....
#40
Quote by sixgunsound
I'd say it's unfair to put it as idealism vs survival. How'd we get here?

1. Native communities have their land taken and are relegated to small reserves.
2. The government sponsors mass abduction of native children and places them in "residential schools". In these schools they are beaten, raped, and forced to be "Canadian". See: 60's Swoop.
3. These children return a generation later, unable to speak their own language, unable to hunt and work the land as their forebears. They find themselves in a grey area between "Canadian" and "Cree", unable to find work, unable to find themselves.
4. Those who do move away not only contribute to the (inevitable?) end of their people and culture but often find themselves in Toronto, sitting outside of a Starbucks at Bathurst and Queen drinking listerine, unable to find work or themselves.

Lazy Indians!

Why the fuck is Canada so accepting of being a bilingual clusterfuck, but okay with making things 'canadian'? The country is kneecapped by multiculturalism and liberals.

Can't say the States are much different, but at least we speak English, except for immigrant ghettos.
Last edited by stratkat at Apr 18, 2016,
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