Page 1 of 2
#1
Greetings,

I have been hyping myself up for the new Tremonti album, 'Dust' and by looking at the reviews it has been getting on this website and others, it seems for good reason.

Unfortunately what has been irritating me is that I am only tied to one streaming service (my main source of music) Spotify. And this album will not be on it for a few months apparently. I cannot buy it on Google play since I am not a subscriber and I do not even want to think about Apple Itunes. I am sure this is a way of maximizing sales and what not.

I am forced to buy a hard copy of the album which I am more than happy to considering the situation.

Being a heavy music listener I really cannot buy albums like groceries. But the following questions pop regardless.

Do I even have the right to be irritated since streaming services are known to not pay the artist well?

Should I resort to buying physical copies and curb my nature of listening (of which streaming services have facilitated).

How do the citizens of Ultimate Guitar consume their music and how expensive does it get for you?
@((0_o))@
#2
well i mean you don't have a right to be irritated because the problem isn't ethical at all, but rather on how you balance your budget.
it's all just coming back
it's all coming back

it's all coming back to me
#3
Quote by Baby Joel
well i mean you don't have a right to be irritated because the problem isn't ethical at all, but rather on how you balance your budget.


So you mean to say that getting irritated about not having an album on a streaming service is not ethical on my part?

If so, I cannot really disagree with you. I see your point. Which was why I wanted to get a feel as to how all of your guys purchase music.
@((0_o))@
#4
I still buy CDs & records -- it's not like they are super expensive or I am buying them everyday.

but I also download mp3s.
#6
Quote by neidnarb11890
I still buy CDs & records -- it's not like they are super expensive or I am buying them everyday.

but I also download mp3s.

Ya.

I tried Spotify a few months ago and it was hot garbage. Maybe it's just me, but it refused to work properly. Took 2-3 minutes to skip a goddamn song.

This is why I don't find any new music.
mugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmug
#7
paying for music is unethical. I only listen to 3 artists and one of them is me, the other one is a friend's band and the third has said they don't care how you hear their music as long as you hear it.
If there is a God, it's me.
#10
It is impractical to expect people to buy individual albums or songs to get their music fix. Consider that there are millions of songs from all throughout history, and thus if you want to be able to listen to any arbitary number of them you would technically have to spend millions of dollars.

Anyways, if the album won't be on Spotify but it will be in 1-2 months then it's not that big of a deal. The worst thing is when there are artists or labels who will never (at least in the foreseeable future) be on your streaming app because they refuse to licence their music to it
#11
I usually just pick out the songs from the album I like the most and convert them from YouTube.
Sometimes if I'm lazy I'll just buy them on iTunes.
Unless it's a band I really really like. In which case, I'll buy the album.
Quote by snipelfritz
You lost me at "Lubricate."

I'm raw, like nature. Nature boy. Big jungle leaves are my cum rags.

Sometimes I fuck a bamboo shoot.


There's nothing left here to be saved
Just barreling dogs and barking trains
Another year lost to the blue line
#13
Quote by institutions
i have 7k songs in my music library atm and the only album in it that i actually paid for was Vince Guaraldi Trio's A Charlie Brown Christmas


We all stopped pirating music in like, 2012. Didn't you get the memo?
OBEY THE MIGHTY SHITKICKER
#15
nah it's still standard over here, i need the actual files to feel happy


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
#16
okay i just checked, apparently i finally broke the 100 GB mark and currently have 117 GB of music in my music folder


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
#17
Quote by JamSessionFreak
nah it's still standard over here, i need the actual files to feel happy


That sucks. I'm not a big fan of the idea that intellectual property is worthless. I used to download a bunch of music like 8 years ago. I supposed I had the thought process that companies respond to money, and if the bands I dug weren't getting money then I would probably get less content from them out of that label, or they'd swap to a label that wouldn't get support in a way that I could find their material easily.


Quote by Bleatch
How do the citizens of Ultimate Guitar consume their music and how expensive does it get for you?


I stream, but I also go to a lot of shows. I had a friend who was showing me how much money he made from Spotify and Bandcamp, and it was predictably low. His outlook, and the outlook he told me many have, is that you use them as marketing tools to get people to want to show up to your shows where the real money is. Ticket sales and Merch are how musicians generally get the bulk of their income.

Like I said, though. Giving them the spotify plays or album sales their due cues their label to give that artist more support. Pirating their album misrepresents how much they're being listened to and could cause them to get dropped because sales are low.
OBEY THE MIGHTY SHITKICKER
Last edited by JustRooster at May 2, 2016,
#18
Quote by JamSessionFreak
nah it's still standard over here, i need the actual files to feel happy

So basically those who work to produce the music you enjoy are not entitled to remuneration for their efforts on your behalf?
#19
Quote by JustRooster
That sucks. I'm not a big fan of the idea that intellectual property is worthless. I used to download a bunch of music like 8 years ago. I supposed I had the thought process that companies respond to money, and if the bands I dug weren't getting money then I would probably get less content from them out of that label, or they'd swap to a label that wouldn't get support in a way that I could find their material easily.

Nah it's pretty great.

Labels are tiny and in small numbers here and there's really no such thing as a 'music industry'.

The whole consumerist rhetoric about the free market and supply and demand isn't even present among students, or 95% of the general population for that matter. Sure, people who support neoliberal policies like you're used to are present, and I feel like they're becoming more common, but generally they are a very small minority. One thing I like here is that I can talk to a traditional leftist and a traditional rightist and while they'll disagree on a whole bunch of stuff they'll probably agree on two things - capitalism and the US are shite.

Music publishing is usually independent and self-financed or supported by non-profit student labels like ZARŠ and ŠKUC. These tend to follow a principle of self-management and while they still have to have some sort of hierarchy established they always make sure that financial pressures do not interfere with the freedom of expressions of the 'employees'.

The trend that I've observed is that young musicians either don't want to focus on money and just want to keep playing and making music, or in many cases openly express their beliefs that creativity is stifled by financial capital and that the capitalist mode of production should not interfere with art or intellectual property. And if you think this is just edgy kids being edgy, the professors I work with have quite a few not-so-nice things to say how America handles 'intellectual property' around the world.

While this might seem just like empty words to you and you're probably already preparing some remark about Starbucks hipsters, you have to realize that the urban student population, who is the main producer and consumer of music and art in general here, has a strong tradition of self-management socialism and Marxism from the times of Yugoslavia.

Places like Metelkova and Tovarna Rog are old government owned buildings which have been taken over by artists, students and activists, and constantly provide the means to anyone who wants to produce and record music there, without charge, and serve as venues for musicians who wish to play there. Similar studios are offered and organized for painters, sculptors and other types of artists as well. I've been told that there are up to 30 such 'autonomous collectives' across Slovenia although I've only been to three altogether.

You also have Radio Študent which is a government owned (and to an extent financed) non-commercial radio station and student organization which also includes politics, philosophy, history and art related material, lectures and activities. ZARŠ is its record label and it organizes or endorses a lot of music events throughout the year. ŠKUC is similar to ZARŠ although it is also non-government.

Youths work actions, anarchist book fairs, books and music being given away for free, free student kitchenss and stuff like that are still a thing here and I hope it will remain like that for a long time.

The reason I'm writing this to you is so that you realise that we live in very different cultures. You talking to me about corporations responding to my money, of which I don't have a lot in the first place, and supporting the kind of culture I want to see is very much like me talking to you about how your favourite record labels should be collectivised and self-managed by students.

edit: typos

Also, here is a nice song from the Yugoslav era celebrating the the youth's adoption of the communist values. The pictures show (voluntary) Youth Work Actions and other aspects of youth social life in Yugoslavia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jxar9FTqldA


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
Last edited by JamSessionFreak at May 2, 2016,
#20
Quote by slapsymcdougal
So basically those who work to produce the music you enjoy are not entitled to remuneration for their efforts on your behalf?

ideally, i'd say no but let's not talk about ideals

in reality, i think they are since we live in a world where people need to profit from these things to survive. and if i feel like their survival and ability to continue to produce music relies on my support, then i will support them

but if we're talking about some well established band who is just racking up a nice pension at this point, i just straight up dont give a shit


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
#21
For the most part - I let YouTube decide what comes next while at home. I let YouTube run and whatever obscurity pops up after 14 Taydolf Swiftler #1's play consecutively gets airtime.

While scary as ever - Moonshine Bandits and Lo Cash Cowboys are 2 memorable names in what genres might not benefit from hybrid and genre-crossover artists.

All things considered though - I ran into a similar issue to OP with visual media streaming services. I wanted to watch 11/22/63 having read Stephen King's book a year ago, so I added an $11 subscription to my Hulu subscription to the $49.99 I paid last year for Amazon Prime atop my $20/mo Netflix sub. Suddenly I'm spending the equivalent of 3 CD's for the ability to rent movies on demand provided they're on the service per month.

But - that's the game we play. Services are going to find ways to differentiate themselves from one another as means to secure the $11 you've got budgeted for streaming service. One service will get Orange is the New Black, one will get Man in the High Castle, and a third will get rights to 11/22/63. And if you want to watch all of them in the same month, it'll cost you $40USD.

********

That being said - last girly I was spending time with wanted to open my eyes to new ways to do things(I'm fairly regimented and find stability in it). We were taking a long car ride, and I'd popped a 4T hard disk, cigarette lighter inverter, and USB powered WIFI router in the back seat of the car. I might not have had internet, but fuck me for bringing 200 gig of music. All I needed was a phone to run VLC to play it within the car. She pulls up Spotify and begins trying to convince me it is better. First 2 songs I request she's able to satisfy. Next 4 she can't - though she wants to switch to EDM ( ::shiver:: ). This worked phenomenally until we lost data coverage between metro areas. My shit never stopped working.

Later that night she asked when I was signing up for Spotify so she could share her playlists.
Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance - Confucius
Last edited by dPrimmy at May 2, 2016,
#22
Quote by JamSessionFreak
Text



Nah, no argument back from me. I was getting a bunch of shit in the Pit here a couple months ago because I didn't like that American pop artists had the image of authorship of their music and I said that it ruined the integrity of the music. Folks seemed to think that "artistic integrity" was a farce. I want to go back and reread that thread now.

I wish it was more like that here. A lot of the local stuff is self produced, but because of the capitalistic nature of the industry here they have no real shot of having their material reach a meaningful amount of people. My views on downloading music are really based on my perspective, and I recognize that my perspective on music has only ever been that in which the music and the financial support were always very closely tied.

I think it's changing, albeit a lot slower than the rest of the world. That is, of course, the American way.
OBEY THE MIGHTY SHITKICKER
#23
To be honest I don't think the capitalist approach has to be all that destructive, even if it tends to be. The problem emerges when, as you said, the industry starts snuffing out the local and self-produced shit.

Mind you, it's not like your average pleb here is too concerned with some avant-garde nu-jazz folk noise or whatever, but not having an overblown industry above it makes it easier to find room for both the mainstream and the underground stuff.


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
#24
I usually buy cds or download albums from bandcamp nowadays and I'll pirate music occasionally. Itunes store is a joke, why would I pay full cd price or more for a digital album with compressed audio quality?
#25
Bandcamp is koo


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
#26
I'm increasingly disinterested in new music. I'm probably just getting old, but nothing I hear anymore really appeals to me. Most of the genres I listened to are dead or dying and new genres, I find, lack anything really appealing for me so I don't really purchase music anymore.
Check out my band Disturbed
#27
Quote by StewieSwan
I'm increasingly disinterested in new music. I'm probably just getting old, but nothing I hear anymore really appeals to me. Most of the genres I listened to are dead or dying and new genres, I find, lack anything really appealing for me so I don't really purchase music anymore.



Old fart!

Sadly, I've succumb to similar fate. I find myself purchasing less and less music, and I'm starting to see bands I loved back in my teens and 20's show up at festivals and fairs.

It was truly a sad day when I found out Everclear, Eve6, Spacehog, Soul Assylum and 311 were playing at a state fair. I promptly purchased the $25 ticket and nostalgia'd to death.

Mainstream crap-rock will always have a speshul place in my youth.
Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance - Confucius
#28
I don't really want Spotify to have the monopoly on music but damned if I can be bothered to get hold of anything that isn't on there or I don't already own.
#29
We are all to blame for the lame state of music today.

Years ago bands wanted hits so they could play bigger shows and put more asses in the seats. They didn't expect and often didn't receive big money from the record companies they just knew that artists with hits on the radio pulled bigger crowds, charged higher ticket prices and got a bigger piece of the pie. For the most part they were happy touring and making money.

The 70 and 80's saw a huge increase in record sales. Records were regularly going platinum and multi platinum and artists got smarter management and better lawyers. Now record sales and song writer royalties were being looked at carefully and actually getting back to the artists. Record labels were financially supporting tours with cash and advertising money. Artists were getting stupid rich and all was good.

The digital revolution came. Songs could be converted to MP3 files of lower quality and sent over the internet often for free. Smaller record labels were going out of business or just got absorbed by the giant music killer SONY. New artists were now being told that there is no upfront money for recording budgets or advertising and the bands are expected to deliver a finished or nearly finished project. There is no money for tour support and in order to even consider mounting a major tour a band needs to get support from companies outside the music world. So we get things like; "Adidas in association with Lays Potato Chips and Pepsi Corporation presents One Direction" at $150 a seat.

On top of it all we have Clear Channel Communications that owns 1,216 radio stations across the US and heavily programs the format so they all sound virtually the same.

We did it. You, me everyone who downloads songs for free. We took the financial rewards out of real music thus putting the business in the hands of American Idol type people who give you what they think a 12 year old will actually get Mom and Dad to pay for.
Yes I am guitarded also, nice to meet you.
Last edited by Rickholly74 at May 2, 2016,
#30
I subscribe to Spotify and I buy physical media. I transfer CDs to a NAS drive, then stream it around the house. I generally buy the albums I really want, and use Spotify for the odd song. For example, I'm probably not going out of my way to buy another Disturbed album, but fuck me the Sound of Silence cover is going to get listened the hell out of somehow.
#31
Quote by Rickholly74
We are all to blame for the lame state of music today.


Personally I feel as though music is at the best point it's ever been in all of music's history. Most of my favorite albums are from 2012 to 2015 or so. The remaining favorites are from 1999-2009 or so. I've never been happier about the state of music than I am right now, with the industry being killed off by the internet. I'm excited to see what happens next.
If there is a God, it's me.
#32
Quote by Rickholly74
We are all to blame for the lame state of music today.


I'm with you on this as it's defined to be the way the "dollar vote" concept works. You buy Taydolf's album/show, she gets a percent of the profits, she continues making music. You cease to buy Taydolf's album/show, she no longer is being funded and is unable to fund her music career. This is as simple as the laws of supply and demand.

Quote by Rickholly74
The digital revolution came. Songs could be converted to MP3 files of lower quality and sent over the internet often for free. Smaller record labels were going out of business or just got absorbed by the giant music killer SONY. New artists were now being told that there is no upfront money for recording budgets or advertising and the bands are expected to deliver a finished or nearly finished project. There is no money for tour support and in order to even consider mounting a major tour a band needs to get support from companies outside the music world. So we get things like; "Adidas in association with Lays Potato Chips and Pepsi Corporation presents One Direction" at $150 a seat.


Not sure I'm with you on this. The digital media revolution certainly changed the distribution mediums music as it offered digital acquisition methods. Advertising allows corporations to reduce risk. If an artist blows a show, or the show doesn't hit the break-even for the arena, all investors would stand to lose, not just the promoter/organizer/band/label. Think of Shark Tank, where 2-3 sharks go in on one product investment to mitigate risk.

Also - There have been numerous studies done (willing to dig up a few if requested to do so - BBC was big on reporting these) that indicated that individuals prone to procure music through illegal means were not inclined to purchase the music in the first place. While I am skeptical of the conclusions of these pieces - bootlegging is a function of efficient resource use. It'll take less time to hit the "buy" button on iTunes or Google Play store, than it will to root around and find a respectable copy of the album on a torrent site or among friends and neighbors.

For quality - the first rule of business strategy is "only put as much quality into a finished product as the customer is willing to pay for". For the majority of users 256kbps or 320kbps pumped through their Apple Beats headphones is more than sufficient. Why would record companies push out larger files? Bandwidth and distribution costs money. Lossless media takes bandwidth and server space. Hooray tradeoffs!

These streaming services just seem to be another method in which to monetize song plays in a perpetuity environment for people who like diverse musical availability and readily have internet access.
Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance - Confucius
#33
I do buy most the stuff I listen to but I am guilty at times of downloading some stuff. For me personally it's not a matter of ethics or any judgment value, it's because I am fanatical about quality and when you compare a downloaded MP3 against a CD there is a huge difference as far as I'm concerned.
Yes I am guitarded also, nice to meet you.
#34
Quote by Rickholly74
We are all to blame for the lame state of music today.

Years ago bands wanted hits so they could play bigger shows and put more asses in the seats. They didn't expect and often didn't receive big money from the record companies they just knew that artists with hits on the radio pulled bigger crowds, charged higher ticket prices and got a bigger piece of the pie. For the most part they were happy touring and making money.

The 70 and 80's saw a huge increase in record sales. Records were regularly going platinum and multi platinum and artists got smarter management and better lawyers. Now record sales and song writer royalties were being looked at carefully and actually getting back to the artists. Record labels were financially supporting tours with cash and advertising money. Artists were getting stupid rich and all was good.

The digital revolution came. Songs could be converted to MP3 files of lower quality and sent over the internet often for free. Smaller record labels were going out of business or just got absorbed by the giant music killer SONY. New artists were now being told that there is no upfront money for recording budgets or advertising and the bands are expected to deliver a finished or nearly finished project. There is no money for tour support and in order to even consider mounting a major tour a band needs to get support from companies outside the music world. So we get things like; "Adidas in association with Lays Potato Chips and Pepsi Corporation presents One Direction" at $150 a seat.

On top of it all we have Clear Channel Communications that owns 1,216 radio stations across the US and heavily programs the format so they all sound virtually the same.

We did it. You, me everyone who downloads songs for free. We took the financial rewards out of real music thus putting the business in the hands of American Idol type people who give you what they think a 12 year old will actually get Mom and Dad to pay for.


I think this just isn't true. Look at TLC. There was no-one bigger in 1994 - a few years later the Spice Girls outsold them but at the time they were literally the pinnacle of pop success. They filed for bankruptcy within 18 months of their most successful album release. There was no Napster or Pirate Bay in 1994. It is 100% the music industry's fault no-one but label owners make significant money.
#35
There has been and always will be a pre-teen market. The 60's had The Monkees, the 70's had The Bay City Rollers, the 80's had New Kids On The Block, and the 90's produced acts like TLC and Spice Girls. There will always be a spot in the market place for these kinds of bands. but in the past we still saw decent rock being played in the Top 20 and Top 10. I can't say that's happening in today's market. Maybe I'm just not listening to the right radio stations but I don't hear any of the bands or artists generally talked about here on UG being played on the radio today.
Yes I am guitarded also, nice to meet you.
#36
Quote by smb
I think this just isn't true. Look at TLC. There was no-one bigger in 1994 - a few years later the Spice Girls outsold them but at the time they were literally the pinnacle of pop success. They filed for bankruptcy within 18 months of their most successful album release. There was no Napster or Pirate Bay in 1994. It is 100% the music industry's fault no-one but label owners make significant money.


They should have taken their own advice and stopped chasing waterfalls. It's an expensive hobby, there's a lot of them to travel to.
Last edited by Deliriumbassist at May 2, 2016,
#38
i jus buy records now and hope that they come with a download code (they usually do). I use spotify a lot too if i'm checking out new stuff, revisiting older stuff. exclusives are lame but they were inevitable weren't they
Quote by ErikLensherr
Did you hear about the cockney Godfather?

He made them an offer they couldn't understand.
#39
Spotify/YouTube to check out a new band. Buy the CD at a local record shop if I can, if not in a chain store, if not Amazon.

Don't let your boat be empty, don't be a sunken dream
Don't let the boat regret thee, for what you could have seen

#40
Quote by Rickholly74 at #33953664
We are all to blame for the lame state of music today.

Years ago bands wanted hits so they could play bigger shows and put more asses in the seats. They didn't expect and often didn't receive big money from the record companies they just knew that artists with hits on the radio pulled bigger crowds, charged higher ticket prices and got a bigger piece of the pie. For the most part they were happy touring and making money.

The 70 and 80's saw a huge increase in record sales. Records were regularly going platinum and multi platinum and artists got smarter management and better lawyers. Now record sales and song writer royalties were being looked at carefully and actually getting back to the artists. Record labels were financially supporting tours with cash and advertising money. Artists were getting stupid rich and all was good.

The digital revolution came. Songs could be converted to MP3 files of lower quality and sent over the internet often for free. Smaller record labels were going out of business or just got absorbed by the giant music killer SONY. New artists were now being told that there is no upfront money for recording budgets or advertising and the bands are expected to deliver a finished or nearly finished project. There is no money for tour support and in order to even consider mounting a major tour a band needs to get support from companies outside the music world. So we get things like; "Adidas in association with Lays Potato Chips and Pepsi Corporation presents One Direction" at $150 a seat.

On top of it all we have Clear Channel Communications that owns 1,216 radio stations across the US and heavily programs the format so they all sound virtually the same.

We did it. You, me everyone who downloads songs for free. We took the financial rewards out of real music thus putting the business in the hands of American Idol type people who give you what they think a 12 year old will actually get Mom and Dad to pay for.


To be fair, it's great that artists nowadays can get their music heard around the world with the internet without the need of record labels forcing creative control to get radio play. I couldn't care less about the current state of radio, it's a long outdated way of finding music.

It does suck though that smaller artists aren't getting payed as much anymore though, but what can you do? Times have changed.
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