#1
The bass player in my band has a great attitude and is a decent player, but I think his main shortcoming is his lack of musical knowledge and his stubbornness when it comes to learning anything past his comfort zone.

For instance, if he's backing me on rhythm guitar, he'll play the minor chord when it's a minor 7 chord he should be playing. Or he'll play the C major chord instead of a C9 chord. I'll correct him very politely, but he always says something like "it's not that big of a deal," when in reality there's a distinct difference in both cases.

And beyond that, if I introduce a chord progression in something that's not in minor or major, a lot of times he'll freeze up and say he doesn't know what to do. Which is ok, but even after I try to talk him through the progression, he'll just say "I don't care about theory, I play by feel." While I'm in the "knowing a little theory can't hurt" category.

It's not that I'm a theory snob, but he'll introduce 1-4-5 progressions that have been done millions of times over. I want him to strive for more, but he quite frankly doesn't care.

How would you handle it?
#2
Get rid of him.

Problem solved.


Also there is a bandleading subforum
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#3
Kick him in the fuck and tell him to nuts off.

He's not listening to reason or actually improving himself, so you have to be firm.
o()o

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#4
Kill him, dismember the body, and cook it. The inedible parts need to be dissolved in acid.
Last edited by TobusRex at May 10, 2016,
#5
Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
Get rid of him.

Problem solved.


Also there is a bandleading subforum



Bandleading subforum is pretty not-happening to be fair.

Thanks for the perspective. He joined us in the middle of recording our debut album, but we asked our old bass player to keep doing the tracks for consistency's sake. If we ask him to leave, it'll seem a lot like we only used him for live shows which definitely isn't the case. It's just taken me this long to finally realize that maybe we're not on the same page.
#6
Yeah Bandleading or Musician Talk at least would be better for this topic, although Bandleading is not too active as you have seen. Prepare yourself for a lot of non-helpful answers coming up. But a lot of us are nice.

If he really won't "shape up", tell him he will be kicked out of the band.

For the modified chords, if the extra voicing is reinforced elsewhere I would not be too stressed about it. If the voicing on his instrument is integral to the song, then yeah it needs to happen. For the progressions, yeah he needs to be playing the right roots. There are a lot of progressions involving well beyond 1 4 5 6...

The theory thing really grinds my gears. Theory is not some snobbery way of reducing your artistic capabilities by following rules, it allows you to understand and reference how music works, extending your artistic capabilities.

It also helps to vision cast to him, for him. Explain to him why he needs to play the extra voicings on the chord, why to play the written progression, why to learn theory and stop being a punk.
Last edited by Will Lane at May 10, 2016,
#7
Quote by iRock7 at #33964075
Bandleading subforum is pretty not-happening to be fair.

Thanks for the perspective. He joined us in the middle of recording our debut album, but we asked our old bass player to keep doing the tracks for consistency's sake. If we ask him to leave, it'll seem a lot like we only used him for live shows which definitely isn't the case. It's just taken me this long to finally realize that maybe we're not on the same page.


Well I mean, if this guy isn't cooperating with you and refuses to get better so that he can play the material you guys do better, then I wouldn't even waste my time anymore. Finish up whatever the heck you have to do with him and then toss him the boot cause it's obvious you guys aren't on the same page if his responses are like that.


Music is much better when you don't have to worry about if your band-mate is competent enough to keep up.
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
#9
The bass player in my band has a great attitude and is a decent player, but I think his main shortcoming is his lack of musical knowledge and his stubbornness when it comes to learning anything past his comfort zone.

So where is the "great attitude" and "decent player" come from? Sounds like a very limited player with a poor attitude. Time to thin the herd.
Yes I am guitarded also, nice to meet you.
Last edited by Rickholly74 at May 10, 2016,
#10
Quote by iRock7
The bass player in my band has a great attitude and is a decent player, but I think his main shortcoming is his lack of musical knowledge and his stubbornness when it comes to learning anything past his comfort zone.

For instance, if he's backing me on rhythm guitar, he'll play the minor chord when it's a minor 7 chord he should be playing. Or he'll play the C major chord instead of a C9 chord. I'll correct him very politely, but he always says something like "it's not that big of a deal," when in reality there's a distinct difference in both cases.

And beyond that, if I introduce a chord progression in something that's not in minor or major, a lot of times he'll freeze up and say he doesn't know what to do. Which is ok, but even after I try to talk him through the progression, he'll just say "I don't care about theory, I play by feel." While I'm in the "knowing a little theory can't hurt" category.

It's not that I'm a theory snob, but he'll introduce 1-4-5 progressions that have been done millions of times over. I want him to strive for more, but he quite frankly doesn't care.

How would you handle it?
Get a proper rhythm player.
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#11
The bass player in my band has a great attitude and is a decent player, but I think his main shortcoming is his lack of musical knowledge and his stubbornness when it comes to learning anything past his comfort zone.


So where is the "great attitude" and "decent player" come from? Sounds like a very limited player with a poor attitude. Time to thin the herd.


I think his great attitude comes from his willingness to learn all of the songs we already wrote. He came in, learned them all in a timely manner, shows up to practice on time, proactively networks on behalf of the band, and he brings a lot to our live performance. It's just when it comes to being a genuinely better musician, the attitude isn't there.
#12
Quote by Will Lane
Yeah Bandleading or Musician Talk at least would be better for this topic, although Bandleading is not too active as you have seen. Prepare yourself for a lot of non-helpful answers coming up. But a lot of us are nice.

If he really won't "shape up", tell him he will be kicked out of the band.

For the modified chords, if the extra voicing is reinforced elsewhere I would not be too stressed about it. If the voicing on his instrument is integral to the song, then yeah it needs to happen. For the progressions, yeah he needs to be playing the right roots. There are a lot of progressions involving well beyond 1 4 5 6...

The theory thing really grinds my gears. Theory is not some snobbery way of reducing your artistic capabilities by following rules, it allows you to understand and reference how music works, extending your artistic capabilities.

It also helps to vision cast to him, for him. Explain to him why he needs to play the extra voicings on the chord, why to play the written progression, why to learn theory and stop being a punk.


I think you're right, man. I'll have a talk with him. Not quite going to give him the ultimatum just yet.

Agreed on the theory side of things. After really diving into theory, I now realize just how important it is to really know what's happening. I think people are more dismissive out of fear.
#13
Those "1-4-5 progressions that have been done millions of times over" have made countless songs and hits. Sometimes simple is all you need.

Perhaps he thinks you're putting the flourishes on unnecessarily?

In any case it seems you and he have different visions of what is necessary to play music. Either reconcile them or part ways.

No need to be a dick about it, or for anyone to "kick" anyone out, just explain that it's important to you, find out why it's not important to him and see if compromise is possible. If not, part ways amicably if possible, never burn a bridge you might want to cross again someday.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
Last edited by Arby911 at May 10, 2016,
#14
Quote by Arby911
Those "1-4-5 progressions that have been done millions of times over" have made countless songs and hits. Sometimes simple is all you need.

Perhaps he thinks you're putting the flourishes on unnecessarily?

In any case it seems you and he have different visions of what is necessary to play music. Either reconcile them or part ways.

No need to be a dick about it, or for anyone to "kick" anyone out, just explain that it's important to you, find out why it's not important to him and see if compromise is possible. If not, part ways amicably if possible, never burn a bridge you might want to cross again someday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOlDewpCfZQ
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#16
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Are you the one wrapped in the Union Jack, Slapsy?

I'm not Thomas Soutar, you know.
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#17
Quote by Arby911
Those "1-4-5 progressions that have been done millions of times over" have made countless songs and hits. Sometimes simple is all you need.

Perhaps he thinks you're putting the flourishes on unnecessarily?

In any case it seems you and he have different visions of what is necessary to play music. Either reconcile them or part ways.

No need to be a dick about it, or for anyone to "kick" anyone out, just explain that it's important to you, find out why it's not important to him and see if compromise is possible. If not, part ways amicably if possible, never burn a bridge you might want to cross again someday.


I don't think it's him wanting to make hits because that's not really our genre. I think it's just down to a lack of awareness as to what 1-4-5 even is. He's just writing it cause that's what he knows.
#20
Homework for next band practice/rehearsal/jam/whateverTheCoolKidsCallItNowADays:

Define a personal vision for the band and set goal milestonse.
Share with band
See where everyone is in regard to happiness, growth, etc.

If he's not a fit, he's not a fit. There shouldn't be any ill will in the discussion - but if he's not moving in the same direction as the rest of the band, he's inhibiting your progress. If there's a shred of maturity in him, he should see he's not a fit and act accordingly.
Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance - Confucius
#21
Quote by slapsymcdougal
I'm not Thomas Soutar, you know.


My bad. You'd be wrapped in Tartan
#22
What chords do you know that are neither minor or major? Some people are just doing the best they think they can. Sometimes theyre scared they wont be able to do stuff they havent experienced.
#23
Quote by jrcsgtpeppers at #33964450
Some people are just doing the best they think they can. Sometimes theyre scared they wont be able to do stuff they havent experienced.


Some people don't have the time to wait while those kinds of people get around to figuring out if they should shit or wind their watch.


I'm sure anybody can appreciate somebody doing the best they can but sometimes that's not enough.
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
#25
Do what Metallica did to Dave Mustaine and drag him across the country, fire him, and let him desperately find his way home.
#26
Buy him Rock Band 4 and explain that being a musician isn't for everyone.
#27
How good is his ear? That can make up for what he lacks theory wise. Rather than tell him what chords to play, why not show him a bass line to pay instead. It probably communicates better to him that way.

In a way I feel your pain though. I played in a band where our bass player would play drop d tunes in standard. He'd be chugging away on the E whilst we're all chugging D and he didn't get the difference lol.

Quote by neidnarb11890
just write the bass parts yourself & teach him how to play it


and this
#29
Quote by JDawg
Everyone is so quick to fire people, name one band that ever became famous by firing a troublesome band member.

the beatles
#30
Quote by JDawg
Everyone is so quick to fire people, name one band that ever became famous by firing a troublesome band member.



Metallica after Dave Mustaine wrote a bulk of their first album they kicked out him and got famous and fucking him worse than anybody else has ever been fucked in the history of rock n roll.
#31
Quote by FunkyPunk666
Metallica after Dave Mustaine wrote a bulk of their first album they kicked out him and got famous and fucking him worse than anybody else has ever been fucked in the history of rock n roll.

Just to prove you wrong, I'm pretty sure Vince Neil fucked over Razzle from Hanoi Rocks a damn sight worse than Metallica did to Mustaine.
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#32
Try sexin them.
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#33
Quote by neidnarb11890
the beatles

Shot down in flames
A poem.
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