#1
What I mean is like, how (I don't know about other DAWs) Garageband allows you to change the tuning of your guitar via software, so that you hear the notes through the speaker/earphones differently than the guitar actually sounds.

So, is there software to alter the tuning of individual strings?
Like, if I wanted my guitar (set in Drop C) to change the tuning of the 6th (the deepest-tuning string) to sound 1 step higher (C --> D), or to keep my lowest string in C, and use software to downtune the other strings by half a step (so that it'll be in C Standard)
is there software that allows me to do that?

Reason I want to know is because I have a guitar in standard E (for some reason, this guitar doesn't make a sound when plugged into Garageband), and a guitar in Drop C (which actually is audible in Garageband), but no guitar in C Standard (because I want to learn an Arch Enemy song set in C Standard)

Thanks
#3
I don't know of any software aimed specifically at doing that, and stuff like Melodyne DNA wouldn't do it in real time, but to be honest playing along with pitch shifted audio is horrible (you'll still hear resonances from the guitar unless your headphones have industrial-scale noise isolation and the audio is blasting out of them) so I would suggest you just tune to the tuning you want.

Or, find a way around it - I have my guitars in D Standard (it's what my band uses) and just adjust for the song, can even play along with Unearth stuff in B Standard using substituted bass notes in chords where the 5th is actually the lowest note in the chord. You could also import the song(s) you want to play along with and just pitch shift them to suit your most convenient tuning, which is what I do to play along to stuff that would be in E or Eb standard that features a lot of the open low E.
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#4
Quote by DisarmGoliath
I don't know of any software aimed specifically at doing that, and stuff like Melodyne DNA wouldn't do it in real time, but to be honest playing along with pitch shifted audio is horrible (you'll still hear resonances from the guitar unless your headphones have industrial-scale noise isolation and the audio is blasting out of them) so I would suggest you just tune to the tuning you want.

Or, find a way around it - I have my guitars in D Standard (it's what my band uses) and just adjust for the song, can even play along with Unearth stuff in B Standard using substituted bass notes in chords where the 5th is actually the lowest note in the chord. You could also import the song(s) you want to play along with and just pitch shift them to suit your most convenient tuning, which is what I do to play along to stuff that would be in E or Eb standard that features a lot of the open low E.


Or you know, tune the effing guitar

You can pitch shift songs to make them more playable, mostly if you do it to drop D it works out best since drop C/A etc are basically just drop D shifted down. I do it a fair amount for metal songs on GP5 when I want to work a song into a practice routine without all the hassle of tuning.

The reason you're probably not hearing the E standard guitar in garage band is that you need to set the input and output to mono, and to make sure that the output is set correctly. I imagine you have different files for the other tunings, just open one of them, change it to E standard, create new save file, should now work.
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#5
Quote by Anthony1991
Or you know, tune the effing guitar .

Well, in my situation my guitars are locking trem and I play live with the main and backup, so it's more practical to pitch shift and adjust to the song than re-tune the guitar. For people with fixed bridges though, it's definitely better to re-tune.
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#6
Quote by DisarmGoliath
Well, in my situation my guitars are locking trem and I play live with the main and backup, so it's more practical to pitch shift and adjust to the song than re-tune the guitar. For people with fixed bridges though, it's definitely better to re-tune.


Yeah, but what if the string gauge isn't appropriate for a certain tuning? In this case I would just tune my lowest string in D and pitch shift it in standard C tuning. I have Digitech Drop pedal, it works great for that stuff (but of course you can do it in your daw too).
#7
yea I would change the tuning on my guitar but um...it has a floyd rose...
and if anyone's ever messed with setting up a floyd rose to a different tuning before... it isn't exactly the easiest thing to do...

anyways, thanks for the answers
#9
Put simply, no, you cannot do that. Because the audio signal coming from your guitar output jack is just a single signal, with all strings included. Garageband can change your tuning from standard to half step down, or full step down, or whatever, because those lower standard tunings don't change the tuning of the strings, in relation to each other. You can just pitch shift the entire signal down half a step, and boom, there's your guitar in Eb. Do be able to shift the pitch of individual strings, you would half to have six separate audio signals, one for each string. Normal guitars are not capable of doing that. The Line 6 Variax guitars can output in alternate tunings, because they use special pickups to separate all the strings, and have the pitch-shift effect in the guitar itself, so it's all taken care of before the signal leaves the guitar. And the Gibson Robot guitars with "Tone Chameleon", as Gibson calls it, can use their Piezo pickups, combined with a special XLR output, to send isolated, single string signals to the optional extra interface box, which can then be used to do stuff like that, and also to apply effects on a per-string basis, which is pretty damn trippy. But yeah, other than those very specific options, you're not gonna be able to do that.
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#11
There is no software that does it, but have you looked into the Roland GR-55 or Boss SY-300? They can do what you're looking for, although either is an expensive hardware unit.
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#12
There will never be such thing as software that can do that. Absolutely NEVER, regardless of technology.

The only thing that can do that are guitars with separate pickups. I have a Line 6 Variax and you can program different tunings on each string up and down an octave, but that's only because it has individual pickups per string.

Software indicated no hardware changes, aka using a regular guitar pickup, which will mix all 6 strings into 1 signal, which basically means, it's never gonna happen.


Let me explain why. Pitch shifters pitch the signal up and down relative to the signal it's hearing and how many semitones you pitched it up or down.
It does a wave stretch or wave thin technique digitally, and tries it's best to chop it and blend it to sound as normal as it can while keeping the timing in sync.

Now, for it to pitch each string individual via software, you'd have to:
1) make the processor cherry pick each note out of the guitar you're playing.
2) let it know which note belongs to which string
3) do a process good enough to extract each note from the signal and then pitch it without it sounding like shit

Let's look at the closest thing to your request: melodyne
Ok, so it can essentially do this, but let's think, it has to sit and process this for over 10 seconds, and what you're asking for is in real time.
Second off, it does not know which string is which, it only knows what notes you played, but for it to know what strings you played is impossible because each note just sounds like a note, and even if it's EADGBE, once you fret, it can no longer tell what is what.

So basically, between the time it takes for it to process each note in REAL TIME, and the fact that it cannot know what note belongs to what string, you cannot tell software to pitch the correct note as it cannot get this information, regardless of technology.

Once you go so far, you're heading towards hardware technology to help you identify things, and that's not software.


Like I said, Line 6 Variax is the closest thing you can do. I think there's some other modeling guitars with alternate tuning features such as the roland guitars and the autotune guitars,
but basically, if you want this function, it has to be a new guitar, and if you don't want that, you're out of luck.


Next best thing for you to do is find a high end pitch shifter, pitch to the closet tuning you want, then physically tune the strings to what you need them to be tuned.
A pitch shifter is nice, because you don't have to mess with string tension.
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#13
Melodyne actually does that, quite successfully, if the guitar signal is clean, once you add distortion is becomes confused. So far I've been able to run mine post factum, but I have the LE version, maybe the full version can do it in realtime. It is a pitch correction device, and it is getting more sophisticated with each release.
#14
Never say never! Discrimination is becoming better and better in the DSP world. I don't know that we'll ever get there in string to string tuning, but I've been pleasantly amazed by how well some new DSP can tell the difference between one drum and another in the same mic
#15
Quote by pipelineaudio
Never say never! Discrimination is becoming better and better in the DSP world. I don't know that we'll ever get there in string to string tuning, but I've been pleasantly amazed by how well some new DSP can tell the difference between one drum and another in the same mic


That's not the problem. Those things can be singled out through analysis. The strings you play on the guitar are always changing notes, and it's impossible to tell which string is which.

You could technically make a software to detect which string is which when you play open notes on all strings, but how in the hell is it supposed to tell what string is what string when you start fretting?

You're basically asking a blind person to try to identify people within a crowd.

Quote by diabolical
Melodyne actually does that, quite successfully, if the guitar signal is clean, once you add distortion is becomes confused. So far I've been able to run mine post factum, but I have the LE version, maybe the full version can do it in realtime. It is a pitch correction device, and it is getting more sophisticated with each release.


Melodyne does not process in real time. You edit notes through an editor that analyses the signal and then processes it which will take a few seconds to process.
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#16
I wouldnt be surprised if somebody eventually finds a procedure to discriminate between the same notes on different strings at some point. Even though you can play an A note open on the A string or fretting the 5th on the low E, the timbre of the two notes is still very different (to the point that its audible, which i would imagine means graphically/digitally it shouldnt be hard to see a difference).

So.. Does it exist now? Nah. But i wouldnt be surprised if somebody figured it out eventually
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#17
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I wouldnt be surprised if somebody eventually finds a procedure to discriminate between the same notes on different strings at some point. Even though you can play an A note open on the A string or fretting the 5th on the low E, the timbre of the two notes is still very different (to the point that its audible, which i would imagine means graphically/digitally it shouldnt be hard to see a difference).

So.. Does it exist now? Nah. But i wouldnt be surprised if somebody figured it out eventually


I agree the timbre is different on each string regardless of note, but think about all the variables that can change the timbre?

1) Where you pick on the string
2) pickups
3) tone knob
4) pot values
5) how you pick the string

The combination of time it would need to distinguish this and the perfection this requires eventually always exceed any possible realtime value.

At this level, you need AI, and not just algorithmic analysis procedures.

Remember, pitch shifting has come a long way, but it will ALWAYS need a certain amount of latency to process a signal correctly, else if it does not have a big enough window frame, it will sound like absolute shit because it doesn't know what it's working with to reconstruct the signal into a workable outcome.

This same factor is going to be the biggest issue with trying to do this feature. There's no way it could possibly be usable, not in real time.

Now, a process version of this feature, I can see happening. Like I said though, so many variables come into play, you'd need to feed this feature information of how your guitar sounds. Perhaps some type of profiling procedure can help distinguish the timbres of each string, but again, you'd need to pick in a specific spot, and keep your electronics on the same settings at all times.
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#18
The only thing I can really think might work is a hardware add on, but we're talking about software.

Like I said, the Variax has 6 pickups, for each string, and each of those inputs has a designated pitch shifter.

I think a way this whole process of normal pickups can work, is if maybe, you stuck a GK pickup that would hear out the strings to help the software gather information of which string is which, but then it's just redundant at that point.
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#19
You pretty much have no way of doing this without some kind of onboard processing like a Line 6 Variax (which, by the way, uses a piezo pickup).
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#20
Quote by Clay-man
That's not the problem. Those things can be singled out through analysis. The strings you play on the guitar are always changing notes, and it's impossible to tell which string is which.


Good point! I didn't even think about that
#21
Quote by pipelineaudio
Good point! I didn't even think about that


It's a shitty thing, but it's the biggest holdback, and I'm 99% it's going to be impossible to do without additional hardware.

Again, a separate pickup with 6 pickups per string that tells the software what string sounds like what, and to use that to modify the real pickup signal, but then comes the process of gathering information from the main signal and how much latency is needed to break down the signal and rebuild it into a WORKABLE sound.

Like I said, pitch shifters ALWAYS need latency. There are pitch shifters out there that can adjust latency, but when you adjust it to such low values, it sounds like complete warble garbage because there needs to be a window frame is working for how much information it needs to get to reconstruct the signal into something to know what it's even hearing.

It does NOT matter about process power or process speed, the fact is, a processor, no matter how fast, cannot read into the future, which is what the window of latency is for, so it can read a bit and be like "oh it's this this and that, and I need to do this this and that with the signal I have to make it sound like this".

It's why brick-wall limiters always have latency, to absolutely avoid clipping.


So, back to a multi string pitch shifter, it would need a window of time to gather information to gather the knowledge of which string is which, which could possibly need even more time than normal pitch shifters because of how complex the information it needs to get and decipher is to be worked.

Again, look at how much time it takes melodyne to process a recording to break it down into notes, and think about how you're asking that process in real time, while needing information about which string is which, which requires even more information breakdown than just separating notes.
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#22
In the end, I am major happy with my Line 6 Variax, but it is not for everyone. The palm muting is still not perfect, as when you palm mute, your hand covers the vibrations to the piezo pickups, which leads to the treble getting muddy during palm mutes, if you're a big metal person. You can dial in stuff to compensate for this, but it's all about balancing non muted notes with
There's also the problem of how picky you are with modeling guitars.

Some Variaxes can have problems as well, which is why I went with sweetwater so I can swap out a replacement if I get a defect.

This is the only thing I can recommend, either that, or like I said earlier, get a good pitch shifter, pitch it closest to what tuning you want, then physically tune the other strings to get the correct tuning.
ex: open C. Pitch shift to D, physically tune the 6th string 2 semitones down, the 3rd string 1 semitone down, the 2nd and 1st string 2 semitones down.
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