#1
this is a repost as i didn't realized i posted this on the wrong section


hi all

i'm looking for an amp that can handle pedals specially those which are built for metal/can sound really good on the heavy side (5150, Triple Wreck, etc) also has a great clean sound for bunch of reverbs, delays, modulation, compressed clean sounds because i'm becoming too much experimental with pedals, mix and match. right now, the 5150 is my main pedal and all of my heavy sound relies on that pedal so i need something that can give me some sense of gratification in working on with the pedals.

for the combo: $600-$700
for the head+2x12: $1500 max

ps:
i want to make it clear that i'm talking about new stuff. no refurbs or used. i know there's nothing wrong with used but for the sake of personal pref, i want a new one. for the 2x12, i'm really skeptical about using a 4x12 in a small house and i'm not sure if there's much difference between the two so that's why.

here's the list of amps that i have in mind.

peavey valveking 50
blackstar ht 40
peavey 6505+ combo
marshall dsl 40c
blackstar ht 50 head

mesa/boogie rectifier 2x12
orange ppc212

that's all for now.

thanks!
#2
Looking at your list, the most rounded Amp there is the 6505+.

The Valveking is a great amp, for sure, but I find sometimes the low-end on them can be lacking. It really depends on the cab you're using.

Blackstars are what they are, and aren't bad. I've used them live but never in a studio, so I don't have a lot of experience in recording them.

I have never heard the DSL 40c, and won't comment.

As for the Cabs, I've found this with Orange/Mesa:

Orange - Slightly spongy in the mids, very focused low end that can be a little too tight, average top end.

Mesa Eng. - Very focused in the mids, slightly loose low end that can sometimes overpower, average top end.

Again, different cab sizes and speakers can matter. I found that as I played my Recto 2x12, the low end tightened up as the speakers burned in and the top end became much more sharp and focused and the mids seemed to smooth out. With this, every amp will react differently. My Single Rec sounds very different on my cab over my friend's identical cab.
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#5
Quote by the chemist
Looking at your list, the most rounded Amp there is the 6505+.

The Valveking is a great amp, for sure, but I find sometimes the low-end on them can be lacking. It really depends on the cab you're using.

Blackstars are what they are, and aren't bad. I've used them live but never in a studio, so I don't have a lot of experience in recording them.

I have never heard the DSL 40c, and won't comment.

As for the Cabs, I've found this with Orange/Mesa:

Orange - Slightly spongy in the mids, very focused low end that can be a little too tight, average top end.

Mesa Eng. - Very focused in the mids, slightly loose low end that can sometimes overpower, average top end.

Again, different cab sizes and speakers can matter. I found that as I played my Recto 2x12, the low end tightened up as the speakers burned in and the top end became much more sharp and focused and the mids seemed to smooth out. With this, every amp will react differently. My Single Rec sounds very different on my cab over my friend's identical cab.


thanks for the tips.

the 6505+ and blackstar combo amps seems to be interesting. maybe i need to try the combo first before getting to a head+cab configuration.
#6
Quote by diabolical
OP, you realize a lot of these amps wouldn't need these distortion pedals in front, right?


i think so? i'm not sure. have you experienced using a distortion pedal in front of an amp? any thoughts? but i'm pretty sure that most of the pedals i'll be using would be on the effects loop.
#7
Especially for time based effects, I usually would rather them as part of the mixing than the recording. I wouldn't be putting delay or chorus pedals for example in the tracking chain
#8
Quote by frostmourne7
i think so? i'm not sure. have you experienced using a distortion pedal in front of an amp? any thoughts? but i'm pretty sure that most of the pedals i'll be using would be on the effects loop.



Tube amps usually respond better to overdrive than distortion, you can get much better tones recording them with a boost, thus getting real tube preamp distortion. It sounds better than distortion pedals for the most part, if not always.

Especially when you pay the big bucks for Mesa, Orange, Marshall, you really don't want to stick a $100-$150 distortion box in front....well, in most instances you don't, some of the Norwegian Black Metal bands beg to differ

Just listen to sound samples online, and see if you can narrow things down.
Last edited by diabolical at May 25, 2016,
#9
Quote by diabolical
Tube amps usually respond better to overdrive than distortion, you can get much better tones recording them with a boost, thus getting real tube preamp distortion. It sounds better than distortion pedals for the most part, if not always.

Especially when you pay the big bucks for Mesa, Orange, Marshall, you really don't want to stick a $100-$150 distortion box in front....well, in most instances you don't, some of the Norwegian Black Metal bands beg to differ

Just listen to sound samples online, and see if you can narrow things down.


shoot, i forgot to mention this.

i'll be using the clean channel of the amp mostly that's why i mentioned that my main sound will be coming from a distortion pedal as i'm not going to carry the amp during gigs so i'll be using the amp only for recording.

but i get your point if i'm going to base my sound on the amp itself.
#10
Quote by pipelineaudio
Especially for time based effects, I usually would rather them as part of the mixing than the recording. I wouldn't be putting delay or chorus pedals for example in the tracking chain
I would argue it depends heavily on the quality of effects available in the mixing stage and what effects exactly are needed. For instance, I would hate to have to play a .8 delay part without the .8 present during recording. Complimentary reverb/delay/chorus yeah I can understand that. But even then, you know us guitarists are picky. Vocalists often do not care though which makes the engineer's job much easier...
Quote by diabolical
OP, you realize a lot of these amps wouldn't need these distortion pedals in front, right?
Quote by frostmourne7
shoot, i forgot to mention this.

i'll be using the clean channel of the amp mostly that's why i mentioned that my main sound will be coming from a distortion pedal as i'm not going to carry the amp during gigs so i'll be using the amp only for recording.

but i get your point if i'm going to base my sound on the amp itself.
Why would you use the clean channel (of a proper "heavy voiced" amp) when recording heavily distorted parts? I could understand doing that live when you do not have a channel switcher and you need clean to distorted to clean tones back and forth quickly, but for recording? No. The EVH 5150 pedal you have is based on the Peavey 5150 (or rather EVH's sound), which the Peavey 6505 is the successor of. Why would you use a "simulation" when you can use the sound from the real thing?

As far as the amps go:

The VK does it all but does not do it all well. With a proper cabinet (with good speakers in) and some good valves in there, it can be fairly good.

The Blackstar units are "tube hybrid", meaning they both do not have a Phase Inverter valve and they use diodes to clip the signal (like a tubescreamer pedal) rather than hitting the tubes hard like a real tube circuit would do. That is a rough explanation. They sound reasonable like the VK, they do it all but not exactly all well. With a proper cabinet/speaker and good valves, it can also be usable.

The 6505+ is the standard metal amp. But the cleans are generally considered not stellar. Again, it is often suggested to swap out the stock speaker.

To me, the Marshall seems to be in the same boat as the VK and Blackstar. Does cleans and distortion, but not all well. Again, speaker swap and/or a proper cabinet will help. It will arguably do the "Marshall Sound" better than the VK (which the lead channel is Marshall-voiced") and the Blackstar (which has the ISF feature).

I see the most "jack of all trades, and does it well" comments with Mesa equipment. I need more experience/research on these to really say much about them, though.

TBH I would suggest to get two amps. One for the heavy stuff, one for the clean stuff. If you are looking to have as professional results as possible, that is what I would do. If you just want to do home studio/small bits of recording work, with a versatile amp, any of the listed amps would be fine. I would go with the Blackstar HT 50 and a proper 2x12 cab in that situation.
Last edited by Will Lane at May 25, 2016,
#11
Quote by Will Lane
I would argue it depends heavily on the quality of effects available in the mixing stage and what effects exactly are needed. For instance, I would hate to have to play a .8 delay part without the .8 present during recording. Complimentary reverb/delay/chorus yeah I can understand that. But even then, you know us guitarists are picky. Vocalists often do not care though which makes the engineer's job much easier...


Definitely true! I'm just thinking of all the fun things like having the band decide to change the tempo after say a delay was committed to tape.
#12
The Mesa Mini Rectifier (which I have) has a great clean channel and the dirty channel has 2 voicing that both get stellar tones for aggressive work. I usually stay on the vintage, which has great instant mid career Metallica or newer Kreator aggression. It tracks very well. I'd probably go that route if I need good clean and aggressive distorted in one package. The Rectifier sound is something that you can't shake off in a recording though, so you'll always have that sonic signature.