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#1
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-south-carolina-shooting-idUSKCN0YF2SY

Support this wholeheartedly, sends a clear message that we aren't going to tolerate bowl cuts on grown ass men murders and such
Quote by jakesmellspoo
ooh look at me i'm ERIKLENSHERR and i work at fancy pants desk jobs and wear ties and ply barely legal girls with weed and booze i'm such a classy motherfucker.
#3
I am obviously against this due to me being against the death penalty but idgaf really.
dirtbag ballet by the bins down the alley
as i walk through the chalet of the shadow of death
everything that you've come to expect


#5
yeah just wait until bernie gets elected & implements his scandinavian style "socialist democracy" then we will have to put him up in a fucking hotel room & let him release shitty black metal records
#6
When Roof was charged days after the shooting, some relatives of the slain worshippers tearfully offered words of forgiveness during an initial court appearance. One asked God to have mercy on his soul, while others noted that the victims would have urged love.
damn...
I say prison for life is worse than the D penalty, give him that instead.
#7
Quote by Trowzaa
I am obviously against this due to me being against the death penalty but idgaf really.


This.

This is a pretty shut down case with really no of that "he could be innocent" stuff that is generally the reason to be against the death penalty.
Without knowing the context (both in terms of the crime itself and in terms of resources) I'd not want the death penalty for him. Knowing a little bit of the context, I'd still not want the death penalty for him, but I won't be angry or too disappointed if he does get it. As in, I don't think this is a good case to "fight" against the death penalty if it were to be given.

Quote by Weaponized
damn...
I say prison for life is worse than the D penalty, give him that instead.


I find it interesting how we react to those statements. Someone commits a horrible act towards a group/person, and then that same person or relatives/friends of him say that we should forgive the criminal, we should have mercy, etc. How do we react towards those statements? We treat those people as heros, awesome people, saying stuff like "Wow, I'd never be able to do something like that" ... but then ignore their message. Basically those people asking for forgiveness or mercy towards the criminal is a courageous and noble act in itself, but its actual meaning is discarded. Nobody even entertains that message, we just say stuff like "damn" and focus on their act of saying it and nothing else.

Maybe those people want the criminal to be "forgiven" for a reason, and aren't saying it because they are just "better people" and thus are somehow obliged to say that kind of stuff. I'd say the reason is not only a religious one, but on its core about establishing a way for society as a whole to face these kind of acts, so society as a whole improves (regardless of the consecuences of this specific act).

As a society we are so caught up on the "Impractical and idealistic pacifist" idea that we instantly shrug off these type of comments, when it may actually hold merit (at least enough not to instantly ignore these type of comments the moment they show up)

... while others noted that the victims would have urged love


If this is something the victims and their relatives wanted/want, maybe we should listen to them a little bit more (not only this case but also in every one that this type of thing happens).

Quote by neidnarb11890
yeah just wait until bernie gets elected & implements his scandinavian style "socialist democracy" then we will have to put him up in a fucking hotel room & let him release shitty black metal records


These kind of systems are attempts to put that above idea to fruition (and I'd say it works in most of the cases in those places).
Ignoring the economic context (i.e assume there are infinite resources), why shouldn't we put criminals in hotel rooms and let them release metal albums?
If you ignore the economic context and come up with a reason/solution, then the economic context can only influence your ability to actually put it to fruition (based on the limited resources and other aspects of it)
#8
Mass murderers should be incarcerated for life or dead. Forgiveness is a great trait we should support. Both of these are true.
#9
If I ever die in a mass shooting I want my killer executed FTR. They can ask for forgiveness from the Lord
Quote by jakesmellspoo
ooh look at me i'm ERIKLENSHERR and i work at fancy pants desk jobs and wear ties and ply barely legal girls with weed and booze i'm such a classy motherfucker.
#10
Quote by Weaponized
Mass murderers should be incarcerated for life or dead. Forgiveness is a great trait we should support. Both of these are true.


So what do you think of those that connect the two, like the family members of the people that died in this shooting?
Are they delusional? Dogmatic? Simply wrong?

I'm talking regarding the attitude towards the criminal. Saying he deserves death, or that "prison for life is worse than death give him that", etc, is at odds with the "show love" message these people stated
#11
Forgive them, that's great, but there are consequences for actions, and if you intentionally go and kill many people you don't deserve to live the rest of your life. But most importantly it'll be one less jerk for people to worry about.
#12
Quote by bradulator
Forgive them, that's great, but there are consequences for actions, and if you intentionally go and kill many people you don't deserve to live the rest of your life. But most importantly it'll be one less jerk for people to worry about.


How do you reconcile the two bolded phrases? If you forgive them, what reason is there for you to believe they don't deserve to live the rest of their life?

Again, without a social nor economic context attached to it (like the whole "life in prison is cheaper than death penalty" or "we could rehabilitate them so they can serve society" arguments). Mostly because the moment you let those aspects of the context that crime is commited in affect your decision, it doesn't seem you can really talk about what consequence he "deserves" but more of what consequence he'll just get to make all the other shit work
#14
Quote by gonzaw
How do you reconcile the two bolded phrases? If you forgive them, what reason is there for you to believe they don't deserve to live the rest of their life?


There are consequences for actions. You can forgive somebody and that's great, but to not give consequences is to say "well I forgive you so I guess you don't have to deal with the consequences for your actions."
#15
Quote by bradulator
There are consequences for actions. You can forgive somebody and that's great, but to not give consequences is to say "well I forgive you so I guess you don't have to deal with the consequences for your actions."


What are the consequences for his actions then? If you mean "imprison him for life" or "give him the death penalty" those are arbitrary "consequences" you create yourself. You could as easily slap him on the wrist and say "that is the consequence for your action".
No, you create these consequences, and in cases like this the motivation is to create a "consequence" that inflicts some sort of suffering or punishment onto the criminal. Thus, unless you can justify any of those "consequences" on a further level, the thing that is left is you choosing one of them based on emotions, specially ones that are contrary to forgiveness.

The alternative is to stop trying to come to an objective judgement of it and just let it be relative. So for instance, if you are in a country living like we do right now, you don't want mass murderers to keep murdering people so it's necessary to keep them separate from society, in prisons (because there is no other way to do so). To do so you may imprison him for life or may kill him, the practical outcome is the same (they can't kill more people). Thus, you don't keep him imprisoned for life because he deserves it, you do so because it is needed
#16
It's nice when they just kill themselves so then we don't have to hear from the whiners about keeping them alive
___

Quote by The_Blode
she was saying things like... do you want to netflix and chill but just the chill part...too bad she'll never know that I only like the Netflix part...
#17
Hey go find something better to do than to write several paragraphs on the semantic difference between "deserves" and "needs".
#19
Quote by gonzaw
So what do you think of those that connect the two, like the family members of the people that died in this shooting?
Are they delusional? Dogmatic? Simply wrong?

I'm talking regarding the attitude towards the criminal. Saying he deserves death, or that "prison for life is worse than death give him that", etc, is at odds with the "show love" message these people stated
It's great they forgave him, but the feelings of the family and friends of the victims should not be considered when sentencing in crimes this severe. If they want us to hang him, ok. If they want us to let him go, ok. That doesn't matter when he took the lives of random innocent people. If this ever changes, the USA has fucked up. Hope Trump gets the W so this doesn't happen.

Individual forgiveness is very hard to do and it's admirable to overcome hatred. A society should be BLACK AND WHITE in terms of law though. Otherwise, X guy gets fucked for mass murder because we forgave him but Y guy gets the chair. Also b comes after a and c is the third letter.

SIDE NOTE: People can choose to 'not press charges' on pretty much any crime except murder (since the victim is DEAD). Sometimes, for the good of the victim, charges are pressed anyways like in domestic abuse cases. FORGIVENESS can be good but c'mon
#20
Quote by GuitarGod_92
Booooooo it's 2016 abolish the fucking death penalty already


O what a disgrace if such a despised and base race, which worships demons, should conquer a people which has the faith of omnipotent God and is made glorious with the name of Christ!

The music winners listen to
#22
Quote by neidnarb11890
kill all white supremacists tbh


Why would a small, inconsequential group of people get your attention in this way? Sure, if they did look like they were going to get any power, go after them. As it stands, the present threats are socialists, SJWs, etc
O what a disgrace if such a despised and base race, which worships demons, should conquer a people which has the faith of omnipotent God and is made glorious with the name of Christ!

The music winners listen to
#24
Quote by Weaponized
damn...
I say prison for life is worse than the D penalty, give him that instead.


It actually costs less to the taxpayer to keep someone in prison for life. Fewer appeals and all that.
#25
Quote by Second Rate
It actually costs less to the taxpayer to keep someone in prison for life. Fewer appeals and all that.


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=cost+of+each+prison+inmate+a+year+US


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=thiopental+cost


*Let it be known that this was an impartial correction of a false statement. Anything implied or applied from said subject matter is disclaimed.


**It will also be known that this post may edit at any time.
.
Last edited by Fat Lard at May 25, 2016,
#26
Quote by Weaponized at #33982325
damn...
I say prison for life is worse than the D penalty, give him that instead.

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°
#27
Quote by MHDrunk



I was just talking with someone about Dylan Roof the other day too. I am usually all for swift death penalties in cases like this (pre-meditation, mass murder, clear motive = race, etc.), but I don't know if I can support this time, because of how deranged and mentally ill this dude is. Everything that I've read about him points that he is a very sick individual, with acute social interactive issues.

His fucking friends and family suck btw. For like 3 months prior to the shootings, he confided in several of them that he was gonna strike a college or a school, but just didn't take him serious.
#28
Quote by Second Rate
It actually costs less to the taxpayer to keep someone in prison for life. Fewer appeals and all that.


That's the only problem I have with the death penalty in the USA - what kind of idiot decided electrocution was the best way to do it? A bullet in the back of the head would be much better

Quote by bdof


I was just talking with someone about Dylan Roof the other day too. I am usually all for swift death penalties in cases like this (pre-meditation, mass murder, clear motive = race, etc.), but I don't know if I can support this time, because of how deranged and mentally ill this dude is. Everything that I've read about him points that he is a very sick individual, with acute social interactive issues.

His fucking friends and family suck btw. For like 3 months prior to the shootings, he confided in several of them that he was gonna strike a college or a school, but just didn't take him serious.



Birds of a feather, etc, re his friends & family. Why would they start giving a fuck about him at that point lol
O what a disgrace if such a despised and base race, which worships demons, should conquer a people which has the faith of omnipotent God and is made glorious with the name of Christ!

The music winners listen to
#30
I dont support the death penalty but i also dont feel much sorrow for the murderers in cases like this.
#32
The only issue I have with the death penalty is that some people don't deserve the luxury. I mean, I understand we have a problem with overcrowding, but death isn't really a punishment.
Dance in the moonlight my old friend twilight


Quote by metal4eva_22
What's this about ****ing corpses? My UG senses were tingling.
#33
This is messed up. I hope he doesn't get it.

I also really hope we don't dismiss the racism involved and pin all our hopes for retribution/justice/equality/individualism/whatever good you think may come from not having shootings like these in the first place on this dude's life. Don't turn him into a red herring or a martyr or a monster. This is aside from the politics of capital punishment.
Last edited by ali.guitarkid7 at May 25, 2016,
#34
I'm all for the death penalty. I don't need my tax dollars to "rehabilitate" Sociopathic murderers, child molesters and rapists. Do you have any idea how much it costs to keep a prisoner in jail? They're like animals, and when they get too sick, they should be put down.
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#35
Quote by RBM01991
I don't need my tax dollars to "rehabilitate" Sociopathic murderers, child molesters and rapists. Do you have any idea how much it costs to keep a prisoner in jail? They're like animals, and when they get too sick, they should be put down.

And we've officially veered into the surreal here.
#36
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
And we've officially veered into the surreal here.


While the imagery is tone deaf, the driving sentiment isn't without merit.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#37
Quote by bdof
but I don't know if I can support this time, because of how deranged and mentally ill this dude is. Everything that I've read about him points that he is a very sick individual, with acute social interactive issues.



Why does being mentally ill always have to be this "get out of punishment free" card? Like, if an individual commits a horrible crime because they are mentally ill, shouldn't that mean they should be treated with even more seriousness, since the chances of rehabilitation are slim-to-none?
Check out my band Disturbed
#39
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
I don't disagree. Despite its merits, however, I'm still essentially opposed to it.


And I can respect that.

I don't agree with it, but I can respect it.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#40
Yeah it's just the image of animals (and the general theme of my discussions in the pit today) that really made me resent that comment haha.
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