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#1
Hey all! So I've been playing guitar for years now and Ive finally decided to probably take it to the next level, get into a band that actually wants to write and play, not just covers. I am a lead player and I am really into thrash metal (I love jamming Metallica but Slayer is the heaviest I'll go) but I'm also a big blues player too. Anyways, Ive been using a Line 6 50w for a while now and I've been looking into tube amps for a while now and I came across the Marshall DSL 100H. It sounded good when I played in store (not really distorted because of volume inside) but I just wanted to know if I can get that great thrash tone with that amp? I know people have been telling me to look into Mesa amps, but they can be very pricey (though used ones aren't that bad but i'm scared of buying used amps in case they're somehow messed up.) This Marshall is in a good price range, won't completely break me haha. Anyways I just wanted opinions. Before I bought a Marshal MGHFX 100 I think and it was a solid state, and it was a total piece of crap. Anyways, fire away with replies I know this was wordy hahah
#2
well that DSL is certainly better than an MG so no worries there. you'll need a cab of some sort to go with it as well. although it's the "metal" thing to get a 4x12 you may be better off with a 2x12. I'd also check in your area and see if there are restrictions at the venues you'd most likely play. in some parts of the country (US) there are noise laws so bars tend to frown on 100 watt amps and big cabs (even though not a huge diff from a 50 watt 1x12 in terms of volume they just see big).

just a thought on the "I'm a lead guitar player" thing. don't go into the band search with that attitude. you need to be able to go into it with the idea that you will do what the band and the songs need. thrash is about killer riffs.
#3
When it comes to 80s thrash metal there is everything from Marshall to Hughes & Kettner. In the 90s Peavey got in on the action with the 6505.

You can't go wrong with a Marshall but if you find that the thrash metal you like is done by bands on a different amp, then obviously looking at that more closely is a good idea.

I think Megadeth's new stuff use the new Marshall series for example.
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#4
Matter of personal preference but I have no problem buying used. Just like anything else you should research the seller, review ratings etc. Great way to save money although shipping amps can cost a pretty penny so better to look at sellers within your area. Reverb.com is great for this
#5
cool this is great insight, thanks all. Lol also btw, I only mentioned the "lead player" to help get an idea with sounds of the amps. I'm not a pretentious guitar player at all haha.
#6
Gain should not be a problem for old school thrash tones on that amp, JCM2000 DSL100 (which on average gets more love on UG) or current version otherwise. As usual its whether or not it gets tight enough, though that can be the issue with any high gain amp so don't be surprised if you need a tube screamer-esque pedal to do so.
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Last edited by Maidenheadsteve at Jun 3, 2016,
#7
The new DSLs are really useable and are pretty good value given the money IMO. Having said that you need to pair it with a decent cab for it to really shine.

Grab a decent quality cab and a tubescreamer and it's a fine setup.
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#8
I prefer the older JCM2000 DSL100, but yes it can do what you want. you will need a OD pedal to use as a boost for some styles and a decent speaker cab.
2002 PRS CE22
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2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
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Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#9
I've done a gig once with a JCM2000 dsl100 and a new dsl100 side by side. Both through 1960A cabs, both with new tubes. The 2000 kicked its arse.
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#10
Quote by Cathbard
I've done a gig once with a JCM2000 dsl100 and a new dsl100 side by side. Both through 1960A cabs, both with new tubes. The 2000 kicked its arse.


Aren't they essentially the same amp?

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#11
One is made in Vietnam and the other in Britain. If I had to guess, I'd say the output transformer accounts for most of the difference.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#12
Quote by MaaZeus
Aren't they essentially the same amp?

Yes and no. the new DSL is not a direct copy of the original JCM DSL circuit, but more a tribute to the JCM DSL.

I love my JCM2000 DSL100 through a good 4x12 cab. It can make you feel like your playing Wembley Stadium
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#13
I haven't seen a schematic for the new dsl but in a side by side test they certainly sound different.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#14
The Marshall DSL 100 is not a bad amp, but for Metallica and similar tones, I prefer the Blackstar HT Club 50. High gain on the Blackstar is much better than the high gain on the Marshall, again in my opinion. Both of these amps have been around a few years and there are plenty of YouTube videos on both.
#15
I wouldn't give Blackstar the steam off my shit.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#16
Quote by Cathbard
I wouldn't give Blackstar the steam off my shit.


Blackstar cares...
#18
i wouldn't waste my time on blackstar either.

DSL's are nice amps for what you can find them for, however i haven't spent enough time on the different models (JCM2000 or the current DSL) to have much to say. the one thing i have noticed throughout time is that i have liked the 50's better than the 100's.
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#19
Quote by MAChiefs
The Marshall DSL 100 is not a bad amp, but for Metallica and similar tones, I prefer the Blackstar HT Club 50. High gain on the Blackstar is much better than the high gain on the Marshall, again in my opinion. Both of these amps have been around a few years and there are plenty of YouTube videos on both.

The blackstar HT series is pretty shitty when you compare them to anything in their price range
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#20
Quote by diabolical
I'm with Cathbard on this ^. The Traynor heads sound close to JCM800 if you want to look at them.


The Traynor YCS100 would definitely work but I always thought they were more expensive. And if you are getting up around $1,000 used, a Mark V 25 would be perfect. But the DSL100 and HT-50 are about $600 used. So hard to compare at these different price points.
#21
Quote by Robbgnarly
The blackstar HT series is pretty shitty when you compare them to anything in their price range


Why? They are the same quality, same price points, most use similar speakers and cab construction, and all produce a slightly different sound. They are no different than Marshall, Orange, Egnator, etc. All have similarly priced amps in that range and it comes down to preference.

In the end, there are a lot of "shitty" amps out there, but if you can't get a decent tone out of the amps in the range described above, it isn't the amp's fault.
#22
Quote by MAChiefs
Why? They are the same quality, same price points, most use similar speakers and cab construction, and all produce a slightly different sound. They are no different than Marshall, Orange, Egnator, etc. All have similarly priced amps in that range and it comes down to preference.

In the end, there are a lot of "shitty" amps out there, but if you can't get a decent tone out of the amps in the range described above, it isn't the amp's fault.


well you are wrong about this assessment. Blackstar isn't an all tube amp and actually is a hybrid. now if you like your blackstar then that's great and your preference, nothing wrong with that. they aren't well loved on this board which is why you are getting some crap about them.
#23
Well you are wrong because Marshall and Orange make amps that are hybrids as well. What's your point? Doesn't have anything to do with the comments in this thread. Do you correct every JCM 900 post with this same hybrid crap, no. Totally hypocritical.

This "you must have an all tube amp" BS that is propagated on this forum is stupid, especially in a high gain setting since most tube amps are boosted with some kind of a clipping diode in the form of an overdrive pedal anyway.

If you don't like a Blackstar, fine, it doesn't make them bad amps. If you can't get a good tone, don't buy one.
#24
Quote by MAChiefs
Well you are wrong because Marshall and Orange make amps that are hybrids as well. What's your point? Doesn't have anything to do with the comments in this thread. Do you correct every JCM 900 post with this same hybrid crap, no. Totally hypocritical.

This "you must have an all tube amp" BS that is propagated on this forum is stupid, especially in a high gain setting since most tube amps are boosted with some kind of a clipping diode in the form of an overdrive pedal anyway.

If you don't like a Blackstar, fine, it doesn't make them bad amps. If you can't get a good tone, don't buy one.

I'm not a tube snob, I just thought that when I tried the HT20 and the HT60 they were mediocre sounding. To me they just seemed dull sounding. The series 1 amps sound good, but I still wouldn't buy one
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#25
Quote by MAChiefs
Well you are wrong because Marshall and Orange make amps that are hybrids as well. What's your point? Doesn't have anything to do with the comments in this thread. Do you correct every JCM 900 post with this same hybrid crap, no. Totally hypocritical.

This "you must have an all tube amp" BS that is propagated on this forum is stupid, especially in a high gain setting since most tube amps are boosted with some kind of a clipping diode in the form of an overdrive pedal anyway.

If you don't like a Blackstar, fine, it doesn't make them bad amps. If you can't get a good tone, don't buy one.


well actually it does get mentioned here that the JCM 900 is a hybrid and was done by the same guys that do Blackstar now . dude you asked why blackstar isn't loved here and I gave you an answer no reason to get butt hurt or give me crap about.

yes many do boost a tube amp with an overdrive which puts clipping diodes in front. thing is that is an option with your amp those clipping diodes are there whether you want them or not. just saying.

look I could care less if people like or dislike any piece of gear it is up to them. I give my OPINION and that is all. both Uli Roth and Leslie West use blackstar so obviously someone can get good tones from them.
#26
Since everyone is bashing Blackstar at the moment, I'll sneak in here with a recommendation for the Randall Diavlo.
Gear: Gibson Les Paul Studio, Gibson SG Special, Fender Stratocaster, Fender Telecaster, Fender Jazzmaster, Gretsch Pro Jet, Carvin C350, Epiphone ES-339 P90, Epiphone ES-335 Pro. Peavey 6505, Sovtek MIG-100, Vox AC30, Peavey XXX.
#27
Quote by MAChiefs

This "you must have an all tube amp" BS that is propagated on this forum is stupid


That being your opinion perhaps you would be more comfortable in a different forum where everyone agrees with your vitriolic defense of a sub-par amp and a dishonest manufacturer?

Maybe you could go there now?
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
Last edited by Arby911 at Jun 4, 2016,
#28
They are a lying pack of arseholes - end of story. And yes the JCM900 is a hybrid and they copped a lot of shit over that back in the day too. That's why the JCM2000 that followed was made the way it was.
It's simple, "don't piss on my head and tell me it's raining."
Orange are up front about their amps that are hybrids. They don't advertise them as "all tube" so that's ok.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
Last edited by Cathbard at Jun 4, 2016,
#29
Quote by Arby911
That being your opinion perhaps you would be more comfortable in a different forum where everyone agrees with your vitriolic defense of a sub-par amp and a dishonest manufacturer?

Maybe you could go there now?


+1 haha.

really though, blackstar blatantly lied in advertisements. its not "all-tube" like they said. it doesn't matter if you like the tone or not, it is a hybrid.it doesn't matter if you love or hate blackstar, its a hybrid. there is a point of standing on principle and not liking something, and there is also a point of not liking the results. on blackstar, i am both. i don't like deceitful advertising, and they don't sound that great to me either. so i will not buy a blackstar.

MAC - if you like them that is fine. i don't. its a differing opinion. this is a forum and everybody has their opinion.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#30
Quote by monwobobbo
well that DSL is certainly better than an MG so no worries there. you'll need a cab of some sort to go with it as well. although it's the "metal" thing to get a 4x12 you may be better off with a 2x12. I'd also check in your area and see if there are restrictions at the venues you'd most likely play. in some parts of the country (US) there are noise laws so bars tend to frown on 100 watt amps and big cabs (even though not a huge diff from a 50 watt 1x12 in terms of volume they just see big).

just a thought on the "I'm a lead guitar player" thing. don't go into the band search with that attitude. you need to be able to go into it with the idea that you will do what the band and the songs need. thrash is about killer riffs.

It always used to piss me off (Still does I guess) if somewhere in a conversation I would mention that I played guitar and whoever I was talking to would ask "Do you play lead or rhythm?".
"IT DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER YOU DUMB SACK OF SHIT, I PLAY WHATS NEEDED AT THE TIME".
For me, it usually kills the conversation and lowers my opinion of their intelligence.
If that question was a rarity, it wouldn't bother me, but it happens all the fucking time.
#31
Quote by ThunderPunk
Since everyone is bashing Blackstar at the moment, I'll sneak in here with a recommendation for the Randall Diavlo.


TS, apologize for bringing the Hateful Eight into your thread.

+1 on the Randall Diavlo, I haven't played one but from what I have heard, it looks like it is another good choice for a modern high gain amp.

Ultimately, the DSL 100 is a fine amp, I just think it is more suited for classic rock , hard rock and 80's metal. There are many amps that produce a heavier gain and you may want to consider before buying. In the end, you can definitely get there with th DSL, just going to take some pedals and when you combine the costs, you may decide to just go with a different amp.
#32
In the HT Venue amplifiers, we use valves in both the pre amp and power amp stages of the amplifier, but we do also include solid state components in the signal path.
We do that in parts of the circuitry where solid state offers an advantage in terms of reliability and consistency and most importantly tonal performance.

We use ECC83 valves (with an added ECC82 in the HT Stage 60 and HT Stage 100) in the pre amplifier and EL34 valves in the power amplifier. All the distortion in both the pre amplifier stage and power amplifier stage is generated by the valves.

Diode clippers are used in the pre amplifier stage to limit the behaviour of the ECC83/ECC82 valves under situations of extreme clipping.

The ECC83/ECC82 pre amplifier stages are the first to go into clipping and the last to come out of clipping – all the distortion that you hear while playing is generated by the valves themselves.

In both the pre amplifier and power amplifier stage it is the valve itself that goes in to the clipping state first, the solid state circuitry simply controls the limits of the valves under extreme non-linear conditions.

Hope this helps.
#33
So riddle me this Batman. Why are there clipping diodes in the NFB loop of the op-amp prior to V1? The same config that tubescreamers use to clip the signal. Somehow they aren't clipping in the HT but they do in a tubescreamer?
And how exactly does a SS phase inverter improve the tone?
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#34
Omg. You guys finally hired someone to troll the forums and defend your crap.
Prs se Holcomb is the answer
#35
get 'em Cathbard
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#36
An official Blackstar response in a thread titled Marshall. I love this


Also I own a Blackstar cab please don't kill me.
#37
The diodes do clip the signal, but at a level which kicks in after the clipping threshold of the valves. This limits the clipping behaviour of the valves to ensure it never sounds 'bad'. As the clipping threshold of the valves is lower than the clipping threshold of the diodes, the clipping you hear is that of the valve.

The solid state phase inverter is designed in a similar manner – it cannot clip before the power valves. It is a completely transparent path between the pre-amp valves and power valves.
Blackstar Amplification - Northampton, England
#38
Like the clipping diodes on channel 2 of a JCM900? They limit the signal into V1 by clipping it too. You know, if you remove them (and add a resistor) and drive V1 really hard it sounds heaps better. You seriously expect me to believe adding SS clipping over the top sounds better? I wasn't born yesterday, it was done to save a buck, period.

Completely transparent you say? It adds none of its own colour?
You don't overdrive the phase inverter with a tube until the power tubes are being driven well into distortion either so that argument is irrelevant.
Again, you use a SS phase inverter to save money. A SS phase inverter doesn't sound better. Stop pissing on my head and telling me it's raining. That's the whole problem to begin with.

Stop spinning shit.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#39
Quote by BlackstarUK

We do that in parts of the circuitry where solid state offers an advantage in terms of reliability and consistency and most importantly tonal performance.


Quote by BlackstarUK

The solid state phase inverter is designed in a similar manner – it cannot clip before the power valves. It is a completely transparent path between the pre-amp valves and power valves.


Can't be both.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
Last edited by Arby911 at Jun 7, 2016,
#40
Quote by Arby911
Can't be both.

exactly. This is just more Blackstar BS. They first say it's "all tube" then when called on it they say, "It's to sound better." We all know that it was to save money but still they persist with their marketing lies.
The more he talks, the deeper the pile becomes.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
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