#1
Hey guys. I'll make this quick

So I have found 2 amp heads I really like. I've heard both and they both seem to be good quality but I can't decide. The two amps are the egnater rebel 30 and the Panama shaman retro. Both amps are roughly the same price point and I like both but the thing I'm not sure of is the headroom. The rebel 30 is, of course, 30 watts, and the shaman is 20 watts. Both would be loud enough, but it's the clean headroom that concerns me. About the most people id be playing for is maybe 75 people. And our drummer is loud. Is 30 or 20 watts enough in those amps to stay relatively clean at show volume? I don't need sparkling fender cleans, but I try to stay clean enough that full chords don't sound crunchy.

Thanks guys. Any input is, as always, appreciated
#2
Are you going to be mic'ing through a pa? If yes, that will be plenty. If you are not, that will still probably be plenty.

I use a 40w and I don't think I've ever gone past half volume with it. Don't be fooled by low wattage.
#3
I think the concern isn't merely volume, it's clean volume, and it may be that both of those are a little light for that. (I'm not familiar with the Shaman, but unless it stays clean all the way up, 20w is pretty marginal without being mic'd.)
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
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#4
Both are two channel amps so there's no reason he shouldn't be able to get nice cleans at higher volume.
#5
Yeah, both amps are 2 channel. I'll set one up clean and the other up as a pretty crunchy overdrive.
So y'all think that either amp would have enough clean headroom?
If it helps I don't use very high output pickups. I use a les Paul with 57s. Also if it helps, I have little doubt that the rebel 30 has enough headroom. I would say it almost surely does. But I'm not sure about the shaman. But I want to know because I kinda like the shaman better.
#6
Also if it helps, a couple amps I've used before are a 6505+ combo (60 watts) and a 50 watt carvin v3m. For shows I ran the master volume on the 6505 at about 4 and and about 4-5 on the carvin. And I use a 2x12 usually. Stood on its end.
#7
Quote by Lgarretto
I kinda like the shaman better.


Decision made!
If you're playing with a singer and a drummer there is going to be a PA. If you're mic'd through a PA then you shouldn't need to worry about clean headroom the PA can handle making you louder without loss of clarity. The last thing you want as a sound guy is an onstage amp overpowering your PA and leaving you out of options for levelling!
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#8
I just wanted to know if the shamans 20 watts would be enough to play small gigs without running it through the pa. Like gigs of say 50 people or less
#9
I can't be any direct help, but power might not be a good indicator of clean headroom or volume, even with two channels. I used to play though an old Blues Deluxe, 40w, and the clean channel just got more compressed as you turned up the volume. I don't think that the clean channel output was ever more than about 5w. OTOH, my H&K is only 18w, but the clean channel is very loud at full volume.
#10
Quote by Lgarretto
I just wanted to know if the shamans 20 watts would be enough to play small gigs without running it through the pa. Like gigs of say 50 people or less



You shouldn't have a problem.
#11
The question is very speaker dependent, but a 20w Deluxe Reverb is one of those perfectly sized small gig amps. They can always get it done. I often play small gigs with a 15w 1x10 combo to good effect. 4 pc band and the drummer is very dynamic. He understands how to play well with others and volume is never a problem.

Never gigged with either of your choices but I suspect you will be fine.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

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#12
20 watts will not get you clean tones at full band volume.

in short form, i am no longer a fan of egnater. i had a rebel, tweaker, and a renegade. they all sound the same, they are just flat dull. they are full of useless gimmicky features, and just a flat dull pain in the ear.

here is one amp that doesn't get much mention that is underrated (ippon reminded me of this), a bogner alchemist. they come in heads and combos, used for somewhere around $600.
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#13
Quote by trashedlostfdup
20 watts will not get you clean tones at full band volume.

in short form, i am no longer a fan of egnater. i had a rebel, tweaker, and a renegade. they all sound the same, they are just flat dull. they are full of useless gimmicky features, and just a flat dull pain in the ear.

here is one amp that doesn't get much mention that is underrated (ippon reminded me of this), a bogner alchemist. they come in heads and combos, used for somewhere around $600.


I tend to agree, not because 20 watts clean wouldn't get it done but because I don't know of any 20w amps that are designed to stay clean all the way to max volume. (It wouldn't be hard to make one, but I can't think of any ATM.) Even the "clean" channels usually have some distortion when cranked.

I love the Tweaker 88 but am not really a fan of the smaller ones.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#14
I wouldn't use a 20w amp with a loud drummer. My 22w laney couldn't even keep up cranked, let alone clean. That was a particularly hard hitting drummer but yeah.

Trashed mentioned the bogner alchemist. I've not played one but every clip I've heard has sounded fantastic. Was always surprised at how cheap they are.
#15
I have a 20watt Krank 1980Jr and it stays clean almost all the way cranked on the clean channel. But it is getting 20watts from two 6L6 tubes not EL84's so the tubes are not being over-driven to get 20watts

I agree the Bgoner Alchemist is a nice amp
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#16
So I likely wouldn't get enough clean volume from a 20 watt amp to get over a drummer. Okay then. So I'll need to look at larger amps
#17
Quote by Lgarretto
So I likely wouldn't get enough clean volume from a 20 watt amp to get over a drummer. Okay then. So I'll need to look at larger amps

well it depends on what you consider clean, if you can deal with the cleans getting a little gritty when you strum harder then 20watts should be fine in most cases. It really comes down to the amps circuit and how it is designed. The Vox AC30 is only 30 watts but it is incredibly loud and clean
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate