#1
Hey everyone.

I am thinking about upgrading my B.C.Rich KKV guitar - namely the tremolo. The stock trem in it is a "X-Trem", i.e. the cheapest of the Kahler trems, as far as I know. And I wonder, what would I get if I replaced it with the "mid-price" option - the 7300 Kahler model. More sustain? Better tuning stability? Tone improvement? Anything else? Or none of the above?

I know that guitar might not be worthy the investment, if you judged it just pragmatically. But I can´t be pragmatical here, because that instrument has a sentimental value for me: it was my first "real" axe and instead of using it as firewood I would like to keep it alive and refresh it with better components.

Some additional info: I have SD Blackouts (AHB-1) in that guitar and I don´t use the trem too often, about 50% of the time I just have it locked, with that little blocking screw. Most often I use 12-60 strings, tuned to CGCFAD (believe it or not, even the cheap X-Trem can handle that gauge with that tuning).

So please, if you had a chance to compare the X-Trem and the 7300 (preferably in the same instrument), please share your experience with me - what improvements in particular did you achieve.

Thanx in advance.
B.C. Rich, Cort, Engl, Engl, Engl, Epiphone, Epiphone, Fender, Fender, Gallien-Krueger, Gallien-Krueger, Ibanez, Ibanez, Ibanez, KRK, KRK, KRK, Laney, Line6, Michael Kelly, Schecter, VHT, Yamaha....
Last edited by Airfish at Jun 6, 2016,
#2
I would not spend my money on a 7300 series Kahler. if I was buying a Kahler, I'd go straight for a 2300 series and call it a day. Do it right and you only have to do it once.
Gear:
1987 Charvel Model II
2010 Carvin ST300C
1990 Charvette 100
1991 Ibanez RG560M
2006 Fender Mexi Strat
Jackson/Charvel Star W/ Custom Graphics.
Ovation CP 247 Acoustic
Line 6 POD HD Pro X
Pro Tools 9

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#3
Quote by RBM01991
I would not spend my money on a 7300 series Kahler. if I was buying a Kahler, I'd go straight for a 2300 series and call it a day. Do it right and you only have to do it once.


Maybe I will. But I really need to hear if it´s worth the investment: What in particular would a top quality Kahler bring me, compared to the basic cheap one?
B.C. Rich, Cort, Engl, Engl, Engl, Epiphone, Epiphone, Fender, Fender, Gallien-Krueger, Gallien-Krueger, Ibanez, Ibanez, Ibanez, KRK, KRK, KRK, Laney, Line6, Michael Kelly, Schecter, VHT, Yamaha....
#4
Quote by Airfish
Maybe I will. But I really need to hear if it´s worth the investment: What in particular would a top quality Kahler bring me, compared to the basic cheap one?


Better materials, better cam, made in the USA quality. It's a bridge that will hold a good tune for 20+ years if you treat it right. Personally I prefer Floyds but in your situation its a lot more trouble than its worth.
Gear:
1987 Charvel Model II
2010 Carvin ST300C
1990 Charvette 100
1991 Ibanez RG560M
2006 Fender Mexi Strat
Jackson/Charvel Star W/ Custom Graphics.
Ovation CP 247 Acoustic
Line 6 POD HD Pro X
Pro Tools 9

Tutorial: Studio Quality Programmed Drum Sounds
#5
IDK I have a KK Beast VNT with the X-trem and I really don't have any complaints or issues with sustain it is a neck-thru guitar. I know how you feel I have an MIJ 93 jackson King Standard Professional Series the guitar itself doesn't have any great value but after owning it for 20 years and having a great sentimental attachment to it I upgraded the stock Jackson trem with an OFR that I upgraded with a brass big block, stainless screws, titanium saddle blocks etc. after all was said and done I had about $350 into the Floyd which is exactly what I paid for the guitar used from the pawn shop 20 years before and it made an incredible difference. I thought about upgrading the kahler on my Beast V but decided against it the x-trem works quite well for me.
"A well-wound coil is a well-wound coil regardless if it's wound with professional equipment, or if somebody's great-grandmother winds it to an old French recipe with Napoleon's modified coffee grinder and chops off the wire after a mile with an antique guillotine!"
- Bill Lawrence

Come and be with me
Live my twisted dream
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Time for primal concrete sledge

#6
Similar case here, or even worse: I bought that KKV in a sale for 250 euros (with only a tiny cosmetic scratch on one of the horns), then bought the EMGs for 180 euros, so if I buy that trem, the sum of the upgrades could double the original price of the guitar.... But I don´t give a flying f*ck, as long as that brings positive changes.

So OK folks, you confirmed my expectation of a better tuning stability.
Now can anyone please comment on the possible tone/sustain benefit of the trem upgrade?
B.C. Rich, Cort, Engl, Engl, Engl, Epiphone, Epiphone, Fender, Fender, Gallien-Krueger, Gallien-Krueger, Ibanez, Ibanez, Ibanez, KRK, KRK, KRK, Laney, Line6, Michael Kelly, Schecter, VHT, Yamaha....
#7
Quote by Airfish
Similar case here, or even worse: I bought that KKV in a sale for 250 euros (with only a tiny cosmetic scratch on one of the horns), then bought the EMGs for 180 euros, so if I buy that trem, the sum of the upgrades could double the original price of the guitar.... But I don´t give a flying f*ck, as long as that brings positive changes.

So OK folks, you confirmed my expectation of a better tuning stability.
Now can anyone please comment on the possible tone/sustain benefit of the trem upgrade?


not much really. while a better grade trem will likely stay in tune better and work a little smoother you're not likely to notice much if any improvement in sustain and certainly not tone. a better trem won't change the sound of your guitar or if it does you probably won't really notice it. tuning stability and having a trem that will likely last longer would really be the reasons to change it.
#8
Quote by monwobobbo
not much really. while a better grade trem will likely stay in tune better and work a little smoother you're not likely to notice much if any improvement in sustain and certainly not tone. a better trem won't change the sound of your guitar or if it does you probably won't really notice it. tuning stability and having a trem that will likely last longer would really be the reasons to change it.


Thanks for your answers. Even if the tone and sustain won´t improve much, I still feel like it makes sense to go for it. But meanwhile I found very mixed reviews as for 2300 vs. 7300 - some people say the 2300 is not worth the money, others defend it like crazy.... And I found many opinions like "the 7300´s price/quality balance is better".... So now I am trying to collect as many opinions on 2300 vs 7300 as I can, to have a winner. I cetrainly don´t want (and don´t need) to rush the thing....
B.C. Rich, Cort, Engl, Engl, Engl, Epiphone, Epiphone, Fender, Fender, Gallien-Krueger, Gallien-Krueger, Ibanez, Ibanez, Ibanez, KRK, KRK, KRK, Laney, Line6, Michael Kelly, Schecter, VHT, Yamaha....
Last edited by Airfish at Jun 8, 2016,
#9
Quote by Airfish
Thanks for your answers. Even if the tone and sustain won´t improve much, I still feel like it makes sense to go for it. But meanwhile I found very mixed reviews as for 2300 vs. 7300 - some people say the 2300 is not worth the money, others defend it like crazy.... And I found many opinions like "the 7300´s price/quality balance is better".... So now I am trying to collect as many opinions on 2300 vs 7300 as I can, to have a winner. I cetrainly don´t want (and don´t need) to rush the thing....


losing battle on this. not a lot of people have gotten to use kahler trems recently as they just aren't featured on very many guitars. like anything both models will have fans and detractors. let your wallet make the final choice. I'd also seriously consider how much you want to put into this guitar.

since you stated that you really don't use the trem that much I'd be more inclined to go with the cheaper model. compare actual specs though to see if the other version really has anything more to offer. a good installation and setup may make a world of difference.
#10
IMO if you don't use the trem much and it spends half of it's time locked then I really don't see the point of upgrading it.

If you were using it heavily and having tuning stability issues then it would make more sense.
"A well-wound coil is a well-wound coil regardless if it's wound with professional equipment, or if somebody's great-grandmother winds it to an old French recipe with Napoleon's modified coffee grinder and chops off the wire after a mile with an antique guillotine!"
- Bill Lawrence

Come and be with me
Live my twisted dream
Pro devoted pledge
Time for primal concrete sledge

#11
Well, I am having some tuning stability issues, but I´m not sure they are caused by using the tremolo as such: I´m not very happy with the fine-tuners on the trem - nothing major, just that they are not very precise and sometimes I just loose my nerve, unlock the nut, tune the axe with the tuners on the head and lock it again. So if I could expect more precise fine tuners, as part of a better material and manufacturing quality of a higher priced trem, it would still be worth the investment for me. But otherwise I might end up dumping this idea completely....
B.C. Rich, Cort, Engl, Engl, Engl, Epiphone, Epiphone, Fender, Fender, Gallien-Krueger, Gallien-Krueger, Ibanez, Ibanez, Ibanez, KRK, KRK, KRK, Laney, Line6, Michael Kelly, Schecter, VHT, Yamaha....
#12
Quote by Airfish


So OK folks, you confirmed my expectation of a better tuning stability.
Now can anyone please comment on the possible tone/sustain benefit of the trem upgrade?


The current crop of Kahlers have options in terms of saddle material, etc., that actually can make some differences in tone/sustain, particularly compared to the bridge that you have. I'd talk to wammiworld.com regarding those differences before you order up a replacement bridge.
#13
Quote by dspellman
The current crop of Kahlers have options in terms of saddle material, etc., that actually can make some differences in tone/sustain, particularly compared to the bridge that you have. I'd talk to wammiworld.com regarding those differences before you order up a replacement bridge.


Didn´t know about them, but now I will check them out, for sure. Thanks, dude!
B.C. Rich, Cort, Engl, Engl, Engl, Epiphone, Epiphone, Fender, Fender, Gallien-Krueger, Gallien-Krueger, Ibanez, Ibanez, Ibanez, KRK, KRK, KRK, Laney, Line6, Michael Kelly, Schecter, VHT, Yamaha....