Page 1 of 2
#1
Do you think it's okay, in 2016, for a phrase like 'women and children' to be used in news reports and eye-witness accounts of violent and/or traumatic events in order to emphasise just how bad the event was? Seems a bit outdated to me.

Are you, as a woman, okay with the fact that you're automatically assumed to be as vulnerable and innocent as a child, and thus unable to deal with such things? That you're so delicate that only a complete scumbag would target you?

Are you, as a man, okay with the fact that society expects you to be 'rugged' and 'tough' enough that you'd be able to 'handle yourself' in these situations? That without the 'women and children' tag it's just mindless violence involving men that we're all desensitised to so it doesn't matter?

I've seen it use sort of in relation to the Orlando stuff but mainly the stuff in France for the Euros. It places more value on some peoples' safety than others, for completely patronising reasons. Surely x amount of ANY people involved in violence is a bad enough thing by itself and more than worth of contempt and condemnation?
My old signature was too long. Have a daisy.

#3
Nah but seriously I'm curious as to whether other people see this as an issue or if I'm just being nitpicky for the sake of it.
My old signature was too long. Have a daisy.

#4
I'm ok with the children part I guess.

Another thing I hate, if the woman involved in a story is mildly attractive they will say "model" instead of "woman"
#5
Yeah I have no issue with the children part, it's more the putting women on the same level as them thing I'm concerned about.
My old signature was too long. Have a daisy.

#6
I don't know the exact contexts you're referring to but in general i don't have a problem with it. It can be used in a patronizing manner but I haven't seen that a whole lot.
cat
#7
I dislike the use of the words "women and children" to intensify the horror of a situation. I despise attempts by the media to tweak emotional responses.
#8
I think it's okay to use the phrase in relation to trained Russian hooligans attacking women and children inside a stadium. It can be problematic though I guess.
"If God exists, there's no way he is French" - Andrea Pirlo

S A D B O Y S
#9
Women aren't defenseless. In more than enough cases they have displayed feats of incredible strength and bravery. Children often are to a more considerable degree, though there are of course exceptions.

It's largely an issue of what you project onto "women" and how you read that. I'm inclined to think "pregnant women" when "women and children" is mentioned despite there being no basis for such thought, for example.
Last edited by Banjocal at Jun 13, 2016,
#10
Quote by EyeNon15
I'm ok with the children part I guess.

Another thing I hate, if the woman involved in a story is mildly attractive they will say "model" instead of "woman"


Did you ever read the old "True Detective" type magazines they had years ago? EVERY female victim was either pretty, a model, or at least attractive. They never said "oh yeah...this victim was an ugly bucktoothed 350 pound greasy fatass living from welfare check to welfare check".

#12
I think the term "women and children" probably carries more weight with sexist creeps than it does with people who genuinely think of women as equal human beings. I bet the phrase has more emotional impact for evangelical Christians than it does for Gloria Steinem.
Last edited by TobusRex at Jun 13, 2016,
#13
i dont mind that it's expected or at least desired of me to be able to handle myself in a situation like that but i think it's detrimental to women that the same isn't expected or desired of them.

kids are kids, it's understandable that their involvement is extra concerning

the phrase itself doesnt bother me


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
#14
The main way I see it is like variations of this --->
16 people were killed outside of UG today including 3 women.

It's most definately a way for a story to be taken more seriously.

Another example is the stoning in parts of the middle east.
Always reported as "women being stoned"
Before US invaded Afghanistan, "the stoning of women" was one of the major selling points for getting involved(along with 9-11 of course.) Then years later we find out that the VAST majority of stonings are given to MEN who cheat on their wives.
Media is still talking about how they treat women so horribly, like it's a paradise for males.
Last edited by EyeNon15 at Jun 13, 2016,
#15
woman and children implies family and motherhood etc. tbf i think attacks that risk/disturb the relationship between a mother and her child are more grim than violence between men.

obvs that kind of thinking about mothers/motherhood and stuff leads to v lame thinking about other stuff (female purity, needing to be protected etc etc) but i think its roots are a bit deeper than masculinity and stuff. like idk if it overall would even be a good thing to get rid of those ideas so that we could then get rid of the masculinity stuff. idk
#16
Quote by EyeNon15
The main way I see it is like variations of this --->
16 people were killed outside of UG today including 3 women.

It's most definately a way for a story to be taken more seriously.

Another example is the stoning in parts of the middle east.
Always reported as "women being stoned"
Before US invaded Afghanistan, "the stoning of women" was one of the major selling points for getting involved(along with 9-11) if course. Then years later we find out that the VAST majority of stonings are given to MEN who cheat on their wives.
Media is still talking about how they treat women so horribly, like it's a paradise for males.


You made some points, but are you seriously contending that men have it as bad in the Afghanistan as women?
#17
Quote by TobusRex
You made some points, but are you seriously contending that men have it as bad in the Afghanistan as women?

Never been there but judging from the overall conditions and economy of the place I would say yeh, living in shacks in the middle of sandstorms with barely any technology sucks no matter your gender.

Definately seems to ring true there just the same as the rest of the world that men are the primary victims of violence.
Last edited by EyeNon15 at Jun 13, 2016,
#18
Yeah I do. I think it's condescending. The phrase itself is used in varying contexts, but it doesn't express anything genuine, and is rooted around the idea that women are inherently innocent. On a simpler level, you're just grouping adult women with the lack of agency of children. Quite literally infantalizing an adult person.
#19
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
Yeah I do. I think it's condescending. The phrase itself is used in varying contexts, but it doesn't express anything genuine, and is rooted around the idea that women are inherently innocent. On a simpler level, you're just grouping adult women with the lack of agency of children. Quite literally infantalizing an adult person.


This is exactly my point.
My old signature was too long. Have a daisy.

#20
I don't think I hear women being specifically mentioned these days in media here. children definitely though.
O.K.

“There's never enough time to do all the nothing you want.”
~ Bill Watterson


O__o
#21
You've heard this in reference to the Orlando shootings? Really? Why were there little children in a nightclub?

I personally think it's ok to reference children being involved (if they are) but mentioning women in the same breath implies they are on the same level either physically or emotionally with the children which is insulting.
#22
Quote by Mistress_Ibanez
You've heard this in reference to the Orlando shootings? Really? Why were there little children in a nightclub?

I personally think it's ok to reference children being involved (if they are) but mentioning women in the same breath implies they are on the same level either physically or emotionally with the children which is insulting.


No, I don't think there were children in the night club, nor do I think it's bad to mention children being there. I just heard a phrase along those lines in relation to Orlando.
My old signature was too long. Have a daisy.

#24
it's just a relic from the days when men were brave and chivalrous and would put the safety of women and children above theirs unlike nowadays where men are nothing but a bunch of soft whiny limp dick liberals
(\__/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
( )_( ) signature to help him gain World Domination



Do you remember chalk hearts melting on a playground wall
Do you remember dawn escapes from moon washed college halls
Do you remember the cherry blossom in the market square
Do you remember I thought it was confetti in our hair
#25
Quote by JamSessionFreak
i dont mind that it's expected or at least desired of me to be able to handle myself in a situation like that but i think it's detrimental to women that the same isn't expected or desired of them.

kids are kids, it's understandable that their involvement is extra concerning

the phrase itself doesnt bother me

Once again Jam and I share an opinion
#26
Quote by kalypto
it's just a relic from the days when men were brave and chivalrous and would put the safety of women and children above theirs unlike nowadays where men are nothing but a bunch of soft whiny limp dick liberals

facts
#27
Quote by Pastafarian96
Once again Jam and I share an opinion

So when's the wedding you two?


Sheesh.
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#29
Quote by Rebel Scum
Women and children first unless you're Joseph Bruce Ismay

meh, its just a phrase.

Well done on buying into William Randolph Hearst's hackjob on Ismay.
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#30
Quote by slapsymcdougal
So when's the wedding you two?


Sheesh.

lol nice try you aint getting on the invite list that easy


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
#31
Quote by JamSessionFreak
lol nice try you aint getting on the invite list that easy

It's like that, is it?

Well, consider yourself unwelcome at my father's brother's cousin's nephew's former room-mates barbecue next month.
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#32
fuck


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
#33
That'll teach you. How will you celebrate his 10 years of sober veganism now, eh?
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#34
brb killing myself


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
#35
Quote by slapsymcdougal
It's like that, is it?

Well, consider yourself unwelcome at my father's brother's cousin's nephew's former room-mates barbecue next month.

Huh, what a weird coincidence. My uncle's cousin's brother's former roommate is hosting a barbecue next month, and someone just uninvited Jam on FB.


Wait a second


Last edited by ali.guitarkid7 at Jun 13, 2016,
#36
i think it's kind of a dumb phrase i dunno if i'd say it's an actively bad thing
#37
Quote by slapsymcdougal
It's like that, is it?

Well, consider yourself unwelcome at my father's brother's cousin's nephew's former room-mates barbecue next month.

Will there be women and children present?
#38
Quote by ultimate-slash
Will there be women and children present?

Yes, and at the same time, no.

All attendees will be issued with a fedora and neckbeard on arrival, which they will wear over their own fedoras and neckbeards.

Which goes double for the women.
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#39
Quote by slapsymcdougal
Yes, and at the same time, no.

All attendees will be issued with a fedora and neckbeard on arrival, which they will wear over their own fedoras and neckbeards.

Which goes double for the women.



Will the supplied neckbeards be more robust than the splotchy neckbeards sported by the fedora tippers?
Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance - Confucius
#40
I can't think of hardly any women who I know who would even think for a second about this phrase. I mean you'd really have to be scraping the bottom of the barrel for feminism debate shit in order to find anyone who actually cares.
If there is a God, it's me.
Page 1 of 2