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#1
So I've been into metal for such a long time now. Starting with Metallica (like most) and all those other classic metal bands. Eventually got into Slipknot, than Bullet for my Valentine, which led me into all the core stuff. Memphis May Fire, Of Mice and Men (old), BFMV, LGND, Parkway Drive and other bands along those lines.
The only KSE I knew was "My Curse" since it wason Guitar Hero back in the day. Never actually listened to anything else thoroughly. Came across Hate by Design a couple months ago and decided to dabble in the rest. After listening to that, I started with a random album which happened to be the 2009 self titled one. I fell in love with it all the way through, every single song. Then went to and daylight dies, .then Incarnate, which are also incredible albums all the way through. But after moving on from that 2009 album, listening to the other stuff, I have a feeling that the 2009 album is considered the "shit mainstream album" that most bands have at some point. Such as Metallicas St Anger, or BFMVs Temper Temper sort of thing.
I don't know much about the discography stuff, like what's considered their best album, or how the band is considered as a whole in the metal scene.
So just wanted to know more about what the majority of opinions on the band are, and what their best albums/songs are, etc.
Yeaa.. So, thoughts? :p
#2
Honestly every single artist you mentioned was rubbish.
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#3
Quote by theogonia777
Honestly every single artist you mentioned was rubbish.
Well music's subjective. Just because it doesn't cater to your ears specifically, doesn't mean it's bad. It's just my gets me head banging and gives me goosebumps.
#4
Pretty much everyone that posts here would agree. Music is subjective, sure, but only to an extent. That being said, there's nothing wrong with liking those bands per se. You know. Aside from the fact that you could be listening to ...For Victory or Effigy of the Forgotten or Bonded by Blood or whatever. Maybe try checking the stickied recommendations thread if it turns up (the forum is being glitchy due to some major technical changes) and give those a chance. Definitely all stuff that you would like.
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#5
Metal's opinions of KsE? The underground thinks they're shit and the mainstream loves them.

I enjoy some of their material(first two albums and DD), but they've just rehashed the same album for the past 10 years at this point and I have no desire to listen to anything new by them. I'd say this thread belongs in the hardcore forum but that place might as well not exist now.

Quote by theogonia777
Effigy of the Forgotten


Seeds Of Suffering breakdown legit af~
#6
Killswitch is fucking awesome! The other bands you mentioned I don't really like or have never listened.

But I was a huuuge fan of Killswitch some time ago, sometimes I still go back to listening to some of their albums. Howard made the band softer and less deep, but their albums with him are very very good. My favourite albums from them are Alive or Just Breathing and KSE Remastered, when Jesse used to scream with no tecnique, just pure raw emotion. The 2 new albums with Jesse after Howard left I don't like because they don't feel as heavy.

Their very first album is not very popular, but it's the heaviest, definetly recommend it!

Here's a song from the remaster, some of the heaviest stuff they've made:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-STenCUG64
#7
I kinda enjoy Alive or Just Breathing on an aesthetic level, but the cyclic composition makes the whole thing somewhat underwhelming for me tbh. Dunno about their later material though
#9
Quote by Frankieanime78
Well music's subjective. Just because it doesn't cater to your ears specifically, doesn't mean it's bad. It's just my gets me head banging and gives me goosebumps.


I see this argument used a lot when dealing with metalcore fans. You have the most "doesn't mean it's bad because you don't like it" per capita than any other genre. For a genre that applauds itself on being tough guy macho kings, you all have paper thin skin.

In other words, she was saying that she finds all those bands to be rubbish. You applauded the subjectivity of music and then denied her that right.
#10
Ugh... I remember when these guys were at their peak & everyone tried to get me to like them, but this band's music is just lame as fuck. Like theogonia777 said, there's pretty much a million other albums you could be listening to.

Go listen to Sepultura's Arise. It's kind of where that music derives from without the melodic vocal style... at least all those New England metalcore bands seemed to worship that late-80's/early-90's Sepultura sound. If you like Master of Puppets & Reign In Blood, but need it just a little more aggressive, Arise is the next step. You might not grasp it at first, it may take a few spins because it's not a polished production like the KsE & other bands you mentioned... it's a bit more raw. But once you get used to that raw sound, your ears will open up to a lot of other cool stuff.
#11
Quote by severed-metal
I see this argument used a lot when dealing with metalcore fans. You have the most "doesn't mean it's bad because you don't like it" per capita than any other genre. For a genre that applauds itself on being tough guy macho kings, you all have paper thin skin.

In other words, she was saying that she finds all those bands to be rubbish. You applauded the subjectivity of music and then denied her that right.


That's like, just your opinion man
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#14
Damn. Had no idea they were so looked down upon. Always had the impression that they were one of the "genre defining" bands, where everyone held them up on a high horse. But eh, I still reall enjoy them. Nothing wrong with that. It's a shame once a band becomes successful that they get blotted in as "mainstream". If any band is able to achieve such universal success, with millions of fans and selling out concerts, they're obviously doing SOMETHING right.
But alright, I'll check out those other bands. Never heard of them, so guessing they're lesser known. Really hard to find any underground core stuff. The scene is so over saturated with shit bands like black viel brides and BMTH.
#15
They were considered mainstream before they were successful. Kim Kardashian has millions of fans too
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#16
Quote by Frankieanime78
If any band is able to achieve such universal success, with millions of fans and selling out concerts, they're obviously doing SOMETHING right.


Either that or the credulous masses latch on to the lowest common denominator in our culture because that's the nature inherent to such people. Argumentum ad populum, nigga.
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#17
Frankieanime78

Nobody dislikes because they are mainstream. They are disliked because they aren't particularly good or interesting or unique. The problem is the same with them as all of the other metalcore bands you listed. What they all have in common is that they take elements from metal influences but then water them down with more "appealing" elements.

It's like that trend where chain restaurants offer "habanero" and "ghost pepper" sauces that are diluted to the point of not being spicy. It completely defeats the purpose of using very spicy peppers and it's really just done so they can put a label on it for curb appeal. Saying "new ghost pepper burger" sounds a lot more exciting to silly customers than "new spicy burger", doesn't it?

Think of the metal community (the people that actually listen to metal and not KSE) as capsicum connaisseurs that are not impressed by gimmicky "all name, no heat" sauces.
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#18
Quote by Frankieanime78
Damn. Had no idea they were so looked down upon. Always had the impression that they were one of the "genre defining" bands, where everyone held them up on a high horse.


They are. But most people on UG aren't hugely into the genre that they define.
#19
I like KsE. They were good live when I saw them and The End of Heartache still holds up when I pull it out. Most of their stuff I do like. They're the kings of metalcore in part by default, though. I mean, the only real competition is the increasingly half-ass work from All That Remains.
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#20
hahahaha i'll bite the bait, i don't give a shit they are not liked here because of their genre, killswitch are a very unique band, especially live, look at their shows, they used to be funny as fuck on stage, and when they had Howard, they were also pretty unique in the studio, because I don't remember anyone else in the metalcore scene having a voice that good, I agree that they are a band for younger people, and right now I agree they don't offer anything new or unique, but nowadays who offers anything new in the music industry anymore?

whatever anyone offers there will always be a crowd that will bitch about it, I don't know man, accept what you like, you can listen to both older metal and KSE, the artists will still appreciate, don't let dumb opinions and boring people ruin the fun
#21
I can listen to "As Daylight Dies" and earlier material, but everything after that nauseates me (and even some of ADD nauseates me). There just got to be too much sickly-sweet, cloying sappiness in their writing, as there is in most 'metalcore.' If you ask me, As I Lay Dying is a much better example from that genre -- I do enjoy a lot more of their work. The riffs are better, production is a *little* more raw and less polished (a benefit).
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#22
Quote by VStratto Music
and right now I agree they don't offer anything new or unique, but nowadays who offers anything new in the music industry anymore?


Wow, we've reached a point where the metalcore fans of Killswitch, Trivium, and whateverthefuck are saying noone makes unique, good music anymore like 50 year old dads. Can't wait till fans of Attack Attack and Adele are saying the same things, oh it's great.
#23
Quote by Morphogenesis26
Wow, we've reached a point where the metalcore fans of Killswitch, Trivium, and whateverthefuck are saying noone makes unique, good music anymore like 50 year old dads. Can't wait till fans of Attack Attack and Adele are saying the same things, oh it's great.


learn to read
#24
I like their older stuff, AoJB, EoH and DD but kind of lost interest with their newer stuff, it just doesn't resonate with me anymore (maybe I only continue to like the older stuff due to nostalgia, I was a teenager when I used to listen to all that stuff). I still fire up those old albums and have a good time every now and then.

I wouldn't take it to heart too much that people are shitting on your musical tatses here, most of the metal listeners here only listen to obscure/underground/"true metal" that sounds like total shit from my experience.
Most of the stuff that has been reccomended to me from here has sounded like it was recorded on Marshall MG's, Line 6 Spiders and Hello Kitty drumsets then the vocalist just starts shitting/burping/screeching into a microphone.

For stuff I think you would like I would reccomend Scar Symmetry, Trivium, Breaking Benjamin, 36 Crazyfists and some Atreyu.
If you want to push the boat out a little bit but still have the combination of melodic phrases and heavy phrases try some Opeth, Periphery, In Flames and The Contortionist.
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#25
Quote by N1ghtmar3C1n3ma

I wouldn't take it to heart too much that people are shitting on your musical tatses here, most of the metal listeners here only listen to obscure/underground/"true metal" that sounds like total shit from my experience.
Most of the stuff that has been reccomended to me from here has sounded like it was recorded on Marshall MG's, Line 6 Spiders and Hello Kitty drumsets then the vocalist just starts shitting/burping/screeching into a microphone.


Well, it looks like somebody is making judgements about underground metal that, not only do not ring true for a large portion of the bands within the genre, display a sense of genuine ignorance and lack of understanding about underground metal.

But yeah Frankieanime78, if you need recs for better bands based on your enjoyment of KSE, I'd reccommend Sepultura's pre-Chaos AD output, Slayer's Hell Awaits, the 90's metallic hardcore scene in general, At the Gates' Slaughter of the Soul and Exhorder's Slaughter in the Vatican. Hope you enjoy my recs
#26
Quote by N1ghtmar3C1n3ma
I wouldn't take it to heart too much that people are shitting on your musical tatses here, most of the metal listeners here only listen to obscure/underground/"true metal" that sounds like total shit from my experience.
Most of the stuff that has been reccomended to me from here has sounded like it was recorded on Marshall MG's, Line 6 Spiders and Hello Kitty drumsets then the vocalist just starts shitting/burping/screeching into a microphone.


It's not our fault that you haven't taken a serious effort to appreciate the best stuff in the genre. It takes time and attention to detail to be able to get the most out of it since it's not shallow and watered down like the mainstream stuff. Like supertom1 said, you lack a genuine understanding of the genre, probably to genuine experience.
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#27
Quote by theogonia777
It's not our fault that you haven't taken a serious effort to appreciate the best stuff in the genre. It takes time and attention to detail to be able to get the most out of it since it's not shallow and watered down like the mainstream stuff. Like supertom1 said, you lack a genuine understanding of the genre, probably to genuine experience.


Exactly! At first I found both the production and the vocals a tad too abrasive for my liking (despite already enjoying the guitar work), but eventually grew to love them both.
#28
Quote by N1ghtmar3C1n3ma
I wouldn't take it to heart too much that people are shitting on your musical tatses here, most of the metal listeners here only listen to obscure/underground/"true metal" that sounds like total shit from my experience.
Most of the stuff that has been reccomended to me from here has sounded like it was recorded on Marshall MG's, Line 6 Spiders and Hello Kitty drumsets then the vocalist just starts shitting/burping/screeching into a microphone.


"you're just all elitists man!"

Very new and creative.
#29
Quote by supertom1
Well, it looks like somebody is making judgements about underground metal that, not only do not ring true for a large portion of the bands within the genre, display a sense of genuine ignorance and lack of understanding about underground metal.

But yeah Frankieanime78, if you need recs for better bands based on your enjoyment of KSE, I'd reccommend Sepultura's pre-Chaos AD output, Slayer's Hell Awaits, the 90's metallic hardcore scene in general, At the Gates' Slaughter of the Soul and Exhorder's Slaughter in the Vatican. Hope you enjoy my recs

I'm making judgements based on what has been linked to me on here, like I said in my post, I understand it alright, I just don't like it.

Quote by theogonia777
It's not our fault that you haven't taken a serious effort to appreciate the best stuff in the genre. It takes time and attention to detail to be able to get the most out of it since it's not shallow and watered down like the mainstream stuff. Like supertom1 said, you lack a genuine understanding of the genre, probably to genuine experience.

Oh I have tried believe, I listened to lots of this kind of stuff, and go back to it to see if my opinions have changed over the years as my tastes have changed and matured, and nope still sounds like arse. Don't say I lack an understanding of a genre just because I don't like the bands you like, that's just ignorant and stupid.

Quote by severed-metal
"you're just all elitists man!"

Very new and creative.


I never said anything of the sort, but nice of you to resort to logical fallacies instead of arguing my points with reason champ.
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#30
Quote by N1ghtmar3C1n3ma
Don't say I lack an understanding of a genre just because I don't like the bands you like


I'm not. I'm saying that you lack an understanding of a genre because you clearly lack an understanding of that genre.
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#31
Quote by theogonia777
I'm not. I'm saying that you lack an understanding of a genre because you clearly lack an understanding of that genre.

And what reasons do you have for that other than the fact I don't like most of the obscure crap that gets linked here?
You are making baseless accusations without any evidence, reason or logic to back it up.
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#32
Quote by NightmareMovieTheater
I never said anything of the sort, but nice of you to resort to logical fallacies instead of arguing my points with reason champ.


Oh I though that was the battle we were engaging in. I figured since you assumed what music everyone here listens to, we could just draw conclusions from out of a hat, you know "tit-for-tat."

Apologies, I didn't know you took philosopy 101.

Judging by how often you've resorted to "reason" or "logic," I'd believe you've actually taken the next class up. Maybe self-trained with all this knowledge you're dropping on us. I haven't decided yet.
#33
Quote by N1ghtmar3C1n3ma
You are making baseless accusations without any evidence


Not liking any of the "obscure crap" is all the evidence we need. It's like saying that you love horror movies... but you don't like that obscure crap like Nosferatu.
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#34
Quote by severed-metal
Oh I though that was the battle we were engaging in. I figured since you assumed what music everyone here listens to, we could just draw conclusions from out of a hat, you know "tit-for-tat."

Apologies, I didn't know you took philosopy 101.

Judging by how often you've resorted to "reason" or "logic," I'd believe you've actually taken the next class up. Maybe self-trained with all this knowledge you're dropping on us. I haven't decided yet.


I wasn't assuming, I was extrapolating based on past experiences.
Nice straw man and ad hominem though, trying to attack my character instead of my points is just a sure fire way to show you don't have any valid points.

Quote by theogonia777
Not liking any of the "obscure crap" is all the evidence we need. It's like saying that you love horror movies... but you don't like that obscure crap like Nosferatu.


Oh I get it, you are a hipster.

It's almost like different people like different things.
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#35
It's almost like different people like different things.


Yeah, but some people (like yourself) like things that are inferior. It's like how some people would say that McDonald's is their favorite place to eat. Actually, you know what is funny? I wouldn't be surprised if you were one of those people that thought that people had inferior taste in music than yours for liking pop or rap. That would be great. That's definitely you. And before you try and stick me with fancy Latin terms that you read about on Wikipedia, I am just extrapolating based on past experiences.
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#37
Quote by theogonia777
Yeah, but some people (like yourself) like things that are inferior. It's like how some people would say that McDonald's is their favorite place to eat. Actually, you know what is funny? I wouldn't be surprised if you were one of those people that thought that people had inferior taste in music than yours for liking pop or rap. That would be great. That's definitely you. And before you try and stick me with fancy Latin terms that you read about on Wikipedia, I am just extrapolating based on past experiences.


I actually like some pop and rap music, so there goes your big counter argument stud. The only person looking down on others is you.

And saying something is inferior just because you don't like it is arrogant and egotistical, I know this may come as a shock to you, but you aren't the center of the universe, you aren't a special snowflake and you aren't the source of all knowledge and truth.

Get off your high horse.
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#38
Quote by N1ghtmar3C1n3ma
And saying something is inferior just because you don't like it


I never said that. I said that it is inferior because it is inferior. Maybe next year consider taking Reading Comprehension 101 rather than Philosophy 102.
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#39
Quote by theogonia777
I never said that. I said that it is inferior because it is inferior. Maybe next year consider taking Reading Comprehension 101 rather than Philosophy 102.


And you have offered no reason for it being inferior, you can't just say something like that without backing it up. You are offering opinion as a fact. Again, resorting to personal attacks because you are failing at making a cohesive argument.

It would be like me saying the sky is green because I said it is green without offering any empirical data or reasoned or logical argument for it being green and just expecting everyone to agree with me.

Stop getting your knickers in a twist because someone disagrees with you, you are acting like a spoiled bratty 12 year old.
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#40
Quote by N1ghtmar3C1n3ma
It would be like me saying the sky is green because I said it is green without offering any empirical data or reasoned or logical argument for it being green and just expecting everyone to agree with me.


If they teach analogies in Philosophy 102, maybe you should consider taking it after all.
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