#1
Well, I mean solid state wattage.
80W Bandit takes pedals well, without clipping. ( I could even get the level on OD pedal higher than expected). But when I tried the same procedure with 20W Cube it sounded like crap. Is that because of modelling circuity vs. analog circuity? Or wattage? The speakers? (1x12 vs toy-like 1x8)
Thank you for any help with my confusion.
#2
All of the above in your situation.
If you have two amps of similar quality (say a 100w Marshall vs a 50) the 100 would have more clean headroom, requiring more effort from the pedal to drive it.
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#3
I'd say modeling vs analog input circuitry is the reason but output wattage has no effect. The Bandit has always been known for accepting a wide variety of input signals so OD pedals work well. A cube has digital modeling as part of the input circuit so it doesn't work with pedals well. A well designed analog input circuit will sound great with OD pedals even if the output is only 3-5 watts (Fender Champ, Valco, Marshall Class 5).

With a Cube, just plug straight in and use onboard OD which is really pretty good. No pedals needed, just different ways to skin a cat.
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#4
Wattage isn't usually a consideration. It's pretty rare that a pedal will push the power amp into distortion, usually what you're driving is the preamp, and modelers tend to have poor sensitivity to higher inputs. So the size of the power section is mostly irrelevant, at least for the direct interaction between amp and pedal. Obviously if the goal is to have a bigger, warmer sound at higher volume (with or without the pedal) then the power section comes in to play. Same with the speakers. A smaller speaker might sound shitty with a pedal, but that's not because the speaker can't handle it, it's just that it provides a poor base for whatever it is that the pedal adds.
#5
Quote by Roc8995
Wattage isn't usually a consideration. It's pretty rare that a pedal will push the power amp into distortion, usually what you're driving is the preamp, and CHEAP modelers tend to have poor sensitivity to higher inputs. So the size of the power section is mostly irrelevant, at least for the direct interaction between amp and pedal. Obviously if the goal is to have a bigger, warmer sound at higher volume (with or without the pedal) then the power section comes in to play. Same with the speakers. A smaller speaker might sound shitty with a pedal, but that's not because the speaker can't handle it, it's just that it provides a poor base for whatever it is that the pedal adds.


Fixed that for you. Both my ID TVPs and my POD HD have good input sensitivity, heck Im using a Wampler Sovereign on the ID TVPs right now and the volume boost and distortion are well above a normal input with the amp responding well as well as any tube amp I've owned in over 35 years of playing. The same is reported by owners with the higher end modelling gear as well like the Fractal and Line 6 Helix.
Moving on.....
#6
I don't agree in the case of the POD HD, but my Axe-FX was ok with a boosted signal (not great). In any case that's what the word "tend" was for.
#7
Quote by KenG
Fixed that for you. Both my ID TVPs and my POD HD have good input sensitivity, heck Im using a Wampler Sovereign on the ID TVPs right now and the volume boost and distortion are well above a normal input with the amp responding well as well as any tube amp I've owned in over 35 years of playing. The same is reported by owners with the higher end modelling gear as well like the Fractal and Line 6 Helix.


maybe those 35 years are making you deaf?
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#8
The only difference I've seen in pedals plugged into amps is when you push a tube amp to its normal distortion level. Then a distortion or overdrive pedal will be a little muddy if you're not careful about settings. With a clean amp the output wattage makes no difference. I've played the same Marshall Bluesbreaker and Ibanez SD9 distortion through a Peavey MX at 130 watts, a Fender Super Rev3erb at 45 watts, a Peavey Classic (earlier mid 70's model) At 50 watts, and now a Fender Pro Jr 15 watt amp. The only time it didn't work perfect was running the Super Reverb maxed with the volume knob on 10. Then it would get muddy unless I dialed back the gain a bit and had to be careful with the tone control. I also played both through a couple of solid state amps, Peavey Pacer, Peavey Backstage practice amp, RMS practice amp, Fender H.O.T. practice amp, Gorilla practice amp. The only problem with any of them was various levels of buzz when on, usually quiet when off.

As already noted, some modeling amps don't cooperate well with pedals...I haven't tried it though, never played one, never wanted to. The ones I've heard strike me as a reasonable facsimile of a real amp. And yes I've heard some that are suppose to be the best there are...wasn't impressed. Played onstage with a couple beside my Fenders. Still not impressed. Other guitar player in my band has one, he usually uses an older Fender solid state. With a 12" speaker it sounds weak next to my 15 watt Pro Jr with a 10"...some decent distortion sounds, but too saturated with effects for me, but not a good clean sound I've heard yet.Those are mostly too saturated with effects too. It takes me 10 minutes max to dial my amp in, most people I'ver tallked to spent 2 months trying to dial in their modeling amps. And still aren't satisfied. A friend in Memphis tried one, after a couple of months he went back to his Mesa half stack, he plays with a hard rock band. Side by side he said it just didn't pass the smell test.
Hmmm...I wonder what this button does...
#9
Quote by Roc8995
I don't agree in the case of the POD HD, but my Axe-FX was ok with a boosted signal (not great). In any case that's what the word "tend" was for.

Well I haven't tried driving the POD or a Fractal with an OD pedal. To me that would seems kind of foolish since both units have so many different pedals and distortions built in. I do it with the TVP simply because I didn't care for the distortion on the Blackstar, there was tons of it if needed but no matter what Voice I choose of the 6 available it still Blackstar voicing. The Wampler lets me totally change that voice. But input sensitivity isn't just about overdriving, it's also about touch sensitivity. Even with the POD when I pick softer or turn down my guitar volume the POD detects that and the tone and distortion reacts.

To the fellow that insinuated my hearing is bad well, since it's an opinion to begin with there's really no right or wrong. I will say though that I'm not some pothead who listens to modern metal where the distortion totally masks the amp. The players I like and try to emulate are known for good Blues, modern Blues or Classic rock tones.
I'm also not foolish enough to seriously think all tube amps are great or better than all SS or modeling amps. I've heard plenty of shitty tone coming from tube amps over the years from amateurs to disprove that myth.
Moving on.....
#10
Quote by KenG
Well I haven't tried driving the POD or a Fractal with an OD pedal. To me that would seems kind of foolish since both units have so many different pedals and distortions built in.

So your protestations were irrelevant. I understand that input sensitivity covers a range of things but I thought it was pretty obvious given the thread title that we were talking about boosting with dirt pedals. That's also why I specified higher input signal in my first post. Not talking about picking softer.

Let's try to stay on topic instead of jumping to conclusions about whether someone is insulting your gear or your opinions.
#12
Quote by diabolical
How about changing the amp settings when running OD in front of the Cube, like say using the JC120 model instead of say the Marshall?
It's been a while since I had a Cube, but I don't remember that working well. The JC model sounded pretty bad boosted, just like a real one
I think the issue is that the preamp is going to clip funny no matter which amp it's modeling. The 'cleanliness' of the modeled amp didn't seem to be much of a factor. Adding a distortion pedal might work better on the clean setting if it's set close to unity gain. But an OD boosting the signal is probably not the best fit for the Cube.