#1
I came across a Marshall Mini Stack with upgraded speaker cabs on reverb. I have this mini stack and was wondering, would it be worth it to upgrade the terrible speakers that are currently in the cabs with something celestions? How much does the actual frame of the cab matter? Would it be like putting a Ferrari engine into a Ford Focus? Or do you think it would actually be worth it? I would definitely entertain upgrading these and using with my Mini Rec. Just not sure it would be a good idea. Interested in you thoughts/opinions on the matter.
#2
It's more like putting on new tires.

Your engine (amp) is still a baseline 4 cylinder.
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#3
In my experience, the biggest difference in cabinet construction is whether it is open back or closed back. Other than that, I think the difference is negligible. As long as the wiring and everything is secure, the cabinet construction shouldn't make much of a difference in the sound. However, make sure you price the speakers because in a lot of cases, it might be cheaper to buy a used cab with better speakers in it than to buy four premium Celestians.
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#4
Quote by Arby911
It's more like putting on new tires.

Your engine (amp) is still a baseline 4 cylinder.


Quote by grim1
I would definitely entertain upgrading these and using with my Mini Rec.




Regarding the original question, it depends on how good the cabs are. I'd probably be ok if the cabs were ply (though I have no idea how much that actually matters), but it's also worth bearing in mind what Nolasludge said- buying a ready-loaded (and better) cab may well be cheaper, especially if you're considering the more common "good" speakers (e.g. vintage 30s).
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#5
used cabs WITH good speakers are so cheap, i would buy a cheap one and throw the money in new speakers.
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#6
I'm always looking for good cheap cabs, used mostly, brand new are just stupid expensive. With this thread, just was wondering if it was worth it to upgrade the little cabs that I do have. The other cabs that I have at the moment are a Marshall 1936 and a Carvin 4x12. Both are good, but I'm always on the hunt. Anyone heard of a great, inexpensive 2x12 out there?
#7
down here there is a 10:1 ratio of 4x12's to 2x12's

thats why i have seven 412's and only two 212's at the moment. most of my speakers are British celestions of different forms.
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Quote by andersondb7
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#8
Depends on where you are. I know in Europe, you can get Harley Benton 2x12 cabs for pretty cheap brand new, and they have Vintage 30s in them.
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#9
Quote by Nolasludge
Depends on where you are. I know in Europe, you can get Harley Benton 2x12 cabs for pretty cheap brand new, and they have Vintage 30s in them.


fuck yeah, if i could get them in the states i would be all over them.
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Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
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#10
Every once in a while I see a used carvin Legacy 2x12 on craigslist, but I haven't jumped on it yet, also considering the cabs start off fairly inexpensive I may continue my search for one of those. Unfortunately cabs don't show up much on CL. I also don't want/need another 4x12. Like the footprint of the 2x12, especially the vertical ones. the amps I play through at the moment are a Marshall JCM 2000 TSL and a Mesa Mini Rec and a Fender Blues Jr. Think I'd like to get rid of the Marshall since I hardly ever play it in the 100 watt mode, but it has Sentimental value since it was the first head I ever bought.

Thinking of building a collection of Mini Heads (currently looking at the Peavey 6505mh.) which is why I'm looking at Cab options to go with them.
#11
I missed above that you wanted to use the cabs with a Mini-Rec, my bad!

Still like changing tires, but at least you've got some horsepower to turn them!!!
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#12
Arby911 I'll admit I was a little confused by the 4 cyclinder comment but understood what you were sayin, I'm sure that the speakers in the little cabs are complete sh!t maybe I could upgrade with some jensens or eminence and not break the bank but still upgrade the sound quality coming out over the stock speakers.
#13
I'm going to say like a lot of people, on the used market a decent cab with very good speakers is always great value, unless you're looking at a very specific hard to get speaker or a combo of speakers (even then finding a cab that has one of the speakers, selling the other one and buying your chosen speaker can be better value) but I can see the appeal of doing something yourself and customizing the whole cab to look boutique, but at the same time, it's going to be more money in the end than buying a better quality cabinet from the get go.

Either way you'll end up with a better sounding cab!
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#14
Quote by grim1
maybe I could upgrade with some jensens or eminence and not break the bank but still upgrade the sound quality coming out over the stock speakers.


Very likely, I can't believe the stock speakers are anything even remotely passable. I can't find the actual specs on them, but everything I've read says they are as cheap as it was possible to make them and still get them to reproduce sound.
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#15
It's not only the crap speakers in those cheap cabs, it's the cabs themselves are not very good. You'd be much better off just finding a used good quality cab.
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#16
Quote by DarthV
It's not only the crap speakers in those cheap cabs, it's the cabs themselves are not very good. You'd be much better off just finding a used good quality cab.


It's a wooden box. While the materials may not be of the highest quality that's not terribly important to the tone, more to longevity etc.
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#17
Arby911 I dunno, I've seen videos of the same type of cab with the same speakers, but one was cheapo and one was a mesa, Two way different sounds, And the mesa was a MUCH more desirable tone
#18
That likely has nothing to do with the material quality though, and a lot more to do with the cabinet's internal dimensions and its ability to resist vibration.
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#19
Quote by Arby911
It's a wooden box. While the materials may not be of the highest quality that's not terribly important to the tone, more to longevity etc.


Then why don't people buy marshall MG 4x12 cabs and do speaker swaps? That'd be cheaper than buying a 1960 or mesa/orange 4x12. Birch ply vs glue and sawdust? There's going to be differences in how they resonate.

Nothing stopping the OP from giving it a shot, but I'm not sure I'd expect a whole lot. I'd rather spend more for a mesa 1x12 to go along with that mini rec.
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#20
So I think it goes without saying that you're not overly concerned about the durability of the mini stack cabs right? Have money to burn and looking for a victim to spend it on?

If you want to upgrade the speakers and keep these 10" cabs then go for it. If I were to upgrade the speakers I'd look at some 10" WGS Veterans (10" Vintage 30ish clones) - $82 for the pair. They are only 20W each so make sure you don't blow them.

I do see the argument of putting money into something else like a Mesa 112 with a V30 or a Mesa Thiele.
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#21
Quote by DarthV
Then why don't people buy marshall MG 4x12 cabs and do speaker swaps? That'd be cheaper than buying a 1960 or mesa/orange 4x12. Birch ply vs glue and sawdust? There's going to be differences in how they resonate.
eerm, because they fall apart?
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#22
Quote by grim1
I came across a Marshall Mini Stack with upgraded speaker cabs on reverb. I have this mini stack and was wondering, would it be worth it to upgrade the terrible speakers that are currently in the cabs with something celestions? How much does the actual frame of the cab matter? Would it be like putting a Ferrari engine into a Ford Focus? Or do you think it would actually be worth it? I would definitely entertain upgrading these and using with my Mini Rec. Just not sure it would be a good idea. Interested in you thoughts/opinions on the matter.


I'm sorta in the "everything matters" camp. There are low cost cabs that are pretty well made (Harley Benton, Avatar), and there are cheap cabs built with crap wood, crap internal bracing, crap hardware, crap covering. A well made cab will last a very long time and be pretty rigid so the two lowest octaves on guitar have that big authoritative thump. Poorly made cabs can still sound ok but lose some of that great, solid bottom and give you a softer "thud". It's all about the bass when it comes to cab design and build quality so if big bottom is not important to you, any old pressboard box will probably do.

When you hear a really well made cab like an early Marshall 1960 or Mesa cab, you will know it by the authority in the bass.
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#23
Quote by Cathbard
eerm, because they fall apart?


Errr did you read the post I was replying to? Didn't think I had to actually come out and say what you said. Figured glue & sawdust said it all
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#24
Quote by DarthV
Then why don't people buy marshall MG 4x12 cabs and do speaker swaps? That'd be cheaper than buying a 1960 or mesa/orange 4x12. Birch ply vs glue and sawdust? There's going to be differences in how they resonate.



Generally you don't want a speaker cabinet to resonate, period.

Two cabinets, one built of birch ply and the other built of MDF, can both sound exactly the same with the same speakers assuming internal dimensions are the same. The real reason for buying a cabinet made of birch ply is that it's lighter, more resistant to moisture and more able to handle impacts and handling. In short, if the cabinet is mostly going to stay at home, MDF is just fine. Truth is, MDF is used in some pretty high end home theater systems that are asked to reproduce a LOT lower notes than you can get from any 4x12.

That said, most 4x12 cabinets, seen from the inside, are virtually identical. And that includes cabinets with prices ranging from $300 new to $800 and up. There's the baffle, the four walls and the back, and a chunk of 2x4 (or similar) that runs from the middle of the baffle to the middle of the back. That's there to eliminate an uncontrolled resonance that corresponds to a wavelength multiple of about 37" (the diagonal of the back), give or take, and to eliminate some "oilcanning" that was robbing the 4x12 of all bass response. I've got photographs of a bunch of 4x12s with the backs off. They sort of take the air out of "better built" bullshit.

Note that the "design" of the 4x12 was a chalk sketch on the floor of the Marshall factory. They laid four 12" speakers on the floor (they needed four because the speakers could only handle 25W each and Jim Marshall was starting to build a 100W amp) and drew a line around them and decided that 30 x 30 x 14" was close enough. When they encountered that nasty resonance due to the back panel vibrating, they stuck a piece of wood from the baffle to the back to get rid of it. Pretty sophisticated, eh? They wrapped them in a piece of vinyl ("high quality covering"?), same as you'd find on a car seat.

Forget "bass" when it comes to 4x12s. Generally speaking, most of the speakers that you put in them are already rolling off at around 110Hz (and a standard guitar's low E string fundamental is at 82 Hz). You're hearing low mids from a 4x12, and some heavily comb-filtered low mids at that.

Forget fancy corner construction as well. There's one builder out there who built a nearly indestructible corner on his cabinets. He used to drive over the corners with his pickup to show how well done they were. The rest of the cabinet was destroyed, of course, but he was proud of those corners.

The only real reason to own a 4x12 is for its distinctive shape. It's the "look" of rock & roll. Stage decoration. Poor treble dispersion, lousy bottom end and more. But you can't steer the traditionalist herd followers away from them.
#25
Quote by DarthV
Errr did you read the post I was replying to? Didn't think I had to actually come out and say what you said. Figured glue & sawdust said it all


Apparently you didn't either, since I had already conceded longevity but said that tonally it wasn't terribly important.
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#26
Quote by DarthV
Then why don't people buy marshall MG 4x12 cabs and do speaker swaps? That'd be cheaper than buying a 1960 or mesa/orange 4x12.


The Marshall MG 4x12s are four inches smaller in both height and width than the standard 30 x 30 x 14" 4x12.

In internal volume, those MG cabinets are less than 75% of the internal volume of a standard 4x12 (including the Mesas, which are mostly standard).
The "oversized" Mesa cabinets are 3" taller than a standard 4x12, which increases their internal volume around 10%.
#27
i have two different types of cabs. one being premium (and paid for it willingly), two for speakers. i spent $450 on my mesa 4x12". i love the damn thing. i spent $400 a pop on orange 2x12"s. i love them.

the other five or six other 4x12"s i have owned i paid under ~$200 for and most were full of celestion t75's, k85's, and V30's, etc. they do the job fine, i keep them around the house (don't need to use them to gig with, that is what catagory one is), they sit under amps so i don't have to switch cables on different heads. they get used quite often. they sometimes get used for recording. they sound fine. but (as stated) i don't think they would hold up as well as well as the trusty boat-anchor mesa and orange cabs.

for some patience, you can score a decent 4x12" for pennies in comparison to even buying two new speakers, sell off the other two and pay for it, and have two 'free' speakers and a cab (which you could also get a few dollars for).

free speakers>expensive speakers.
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Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/