#1
How would power metal/symphonic metal in the style of Sonata Arctica and Kamelot or even Iron Maiden sound in the tuning of B Standard or on a seven string guitar?
#3
Stop making new threads. You have 4 threads pretty much asking the same questions and there is no reason why we couldnt discuss this in any of the others. If you wanna know how it sounds in B standard, tune to B and test it out, nothing is stopping you.
Joža je kul. On ma sirove z dodatki pa hambije.
#4
It will sound like eating Johnston brand donuts in Lake Michigan during a cold front.
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#7
Quote by kingoffretboard
gorkyporky Ok then cool, sorry for all the new threads, I just really want to write power metal.
Tread carefully, this is the kind of thing which "accompanies" (pun intended) paranoid delusions of grandeur.
Quote by kingoffretboard
theogonia777 Is that a good or bad thing?
Well, I expect if you get a donut cold enough, it will make a "djent" sound when you bite into it.. Hence the name of the famous donut chain store, "Djentkin' Donuts".
Last edited by Captaincranky at Jul 10, 2016,
#9
Quote by kingoffretboard
Captaincranky So, low tuned power metal is a bad idea then? Darn.


Well, Sonata Arctica started to use 7 strings about 10 years ago and immediately started putting out the worst material of their career other than one great single, Paid in Full, that isn't power metal. In fact, that song really is just a pop song with low tuned guitars.
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
Last edited by theogonia777 at Jul 10, 2016,
#10
Quote by kingoffretboard
gorkyporky Ok then cool, sorry for all the new threads, I just really want to write power metal.


But thats not what you are doing. You are obsessing about being able to sing Iron Maiden songs, and you still havent explained why. If you want to WRITE your own material, then all of this fuss is basicly for nothing. You can write songs in E standard and write them in a way that will complement YOUR voice. There is no rule that says if a song is written in standard tuning, that the top vocal note has to be a c5 or whatever. If you want to write, then write. However the hell you want. And guess what, if you want to write epic power metal and want a shreaking singer, then you can actually find someone who can sing the high notes and you can make a band.

And nobody is saying low tuned power metal is a bad idea. I think that Epica's entire dyscography is written on 7 strings, so its mostly in B standard, and it sounds amazing. But thats because it was written in B standard. Of course iron maiden songs are gonna sound strange played in dropG or whatever, because they werent made for such tuning. At that point you might just as well play them normaly and sing an octave lower, it would probably sound better.

Here is an example of a song written in low tunings on 7 strings and with baritone vocalist, its a band from my country and i think they are amazing:


But i have to stress this again, NOTHING IS STOPPING YOU FROM WRITING SONGS. You are just, for some reason, hung up on singing Iron Maiden covers.
Joža je kul. On ma sirove z dodatki pa hambije.
#11
gorkyporky Wow thanks, I never thought of Epica, silly me, that band sounds awesome too

I can write songs in d standard and still sing to, in fact my first song was written as that but it wasn't metal but that doesn't matter but when it comes to covering songs that's a different story.

I can sing Rammstein quite well and Coldplay (in falsetto), they aren't power metal but that's an example of my range.

I was more concerned about covering power metal songs, but I could just sing an octave lower in standard
#12
theogonia777 Really? Wow, I would be interested in covering Full Moon or Alone in Heaven, those songs are awesome
#13
Epica is watered down metal for teenage girls from the school chorus that don't like metal and only a notch above the likes of Nightwish, Lacuna Coil, Evanescence, etc.
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#15
theogonia777 I like Epica, they're like a female version of Kamelot mainly because Simons' voice went so well with Kahn's.


I like Nightwish too. And virtually any other power/symphonic/folk/progressive metal band out there But Kamelot's my favourite.
#17
Quote by theogonia777
Epica is watered down metal for teenage girls from the school chorus that don't like metal and only a notch above the likes of Nightwish, Lacuna Coil, Evanescence, etc.
Wow, this is disturbing news. I just found out I'm a 67 year old man with the heart, soul, and musical tastes, of a teenage girl. Oh well, maybe someday I'll be reincarnated as one...
Last edited by Captaincranky at Jul 10, 2016,
#18
Quote by kingoffretboard
gorkyporky Wow thanks, I never thought of Epica, silly me, that band sounds awesome too ...[ ]...
Epica occupies a very exalted position in the "symphonic metal", or "opera metal" genre. Sadly, I can't figure out the reason why that should be so, but for the sake of Simone Simons' voice.

With that said the band's "owner", Mark Jansen, doesn't sing, merely growls, nor is he particularly good at it..

Additional problems: Jansen write lousy, clunky melodies, which are them forced on Simons to redeem.Basically, a lot of Epica's lyrics are "prose" rather than "poetry", and they fail based on that distinction.

But more to topic, why their music should interest you in the context of covering it, completely baffles me. You can't take Simon's out of the lead singing role, because their lyrics are pretty much crap. Her spectacular voice, really glosses that over, and you can't drop those dreadful melodies the 2 octaves and expect to get anything worthwhile out of trying to cover it.

Now, if you want to do or cover "opera metal", I suggest you talk to your vocal coach about introducing you to a mezzo soprano, and learn to growl.

FWIW, this is the song from Ms Simons which enjoy the very most

Meh, maybe that's just because I'm an old fart

Although I have to admit, she and Kamelot hammer the shit out of this,

and ya gotta love the red leather outfit
Last edited by Captaincranky at Jul 10, 2016,
#19
kingoffretboard
Quote by gorkyporky
And guess what, if you want to write epic power metal and want a shreaking singer, then you can actually find someone who can sing the high notes and you can make a band.


I only know one person who can sing high, and he doesn't like metal.
Last edited by kingoffretboard at Jul 11, 2016,
#20
In the 8 years since i've been pulling my ass around differnet bands, i managed to start 3 bands with basicly complete strangers, and join a few where i was the stranger.
Joža je kul. On ma sirove z dodatki pa hambije.
#21
gorkyporky
Quote by gorkyporky
In the 8 years since i've been pulling my ass around differnet bands, i managed to start 3 bands with basicly complete strangers, and join a few where i was the stranger.


I did think of one thing, say if I were to cover a Kamelot song, I sing an octave low and for the high notes I record another track where I sing in head voice in the chorus (high) parts. If you think that'll work?

Hansi Kursch from Blind Guardian records multiple tracks of his vocals when working on songs.
#22
kingoffretboard
Quote by kingoffretboard
gorkyporky

I did think of one thing, say if I were to cover a Kamelot song, I sing an octave low and for the high notes I record another track where I sing in head voice in the chorus (high) parts. If you think that'll work?

Hansi Kursch from Blind Guardian records multiple tracks of his vocals when working on songs.


That's just something I thought of, I was just wondering if you think it would work?

Unfortunately in my country, not many people seem to like power metal, they all seem to like metalcore. I'm in the 1% of people in my country who like power metal. Only two friends of mine like power metal, two other people I spoke to (on seperate days) some time back complimented my Hammerfall and Kamelot t-shirts so I presume they like power metal.
#23
it would probably sound pretty bad. Just a question, how old are you?
Joža je kul. On ma sirove z dodatki pa hambije.
#24
Quote by kingoffretboard
...I only know one person who can sing high, and he doesn't like metal.
Simply because you haven't met the right person YET, doesn't mean they're not out there. Were this me, I'd take the old dating saw, "looking for miss right", at face value, and be looking for a female to front the band.

But, I suppose that doesn't jibe with your affectation of having an overwhelming need to be the front man. Jus' sayin'. And 5 threads on the same topic in about a week or so, means you don't get to be mad at me for saying that..

Oh yeah, and a keyboard player too. Lack of a keyboard player is the only reason "Zandria", isn't at the very top of the symphonic metal heap.

Lack of keyboards means you have to play too many canned backing tracks, when you're trying to get your material across live.
Last edited by Captaincranky at Jul 11, 2016,
#25
Quote by gorkyporky
it would probably sound pretty bad. Just a question, how old are you?
Oh well, it was just an idea.

I'm 19 also.
#26
Quote by Captaincranky
Simply because you haven't met the right person YET, doesn't mean they're not out there. Were this me, I'd take the old dating saw, "looking for miss right", at face value, and be looking for a female to front the band.

But, I suppose that doesn't jibe with your affectation of having an overwhelming need to be the front man. Jus' sayin'. And 5 threads on the same topic in about a week or so, means you don't get to be mad at me for saying that..

Oh yeah, and a keyboard player too. Lack of a keyboard player is the only reason "Zandria", isn't at the very top of the symphonic metal heap.

Lack of keyboards means you have to play too many canned backing tracks, when you're trying to get your material across live.


I like the idea of a female vocalist, I like Nightwish more than Epica, Lacuna Coil I enjoy more than Nightwish.

As for my deep vocals, I can sing the band In The Woods... , as well as Rammstein, The Great Pandemonium by Kamelot and Sailorman's Hymn. I will admit I have an obsession of singing lead vocals for power metal but as a huge fan of power metal, I can play bands like Blind Guardian and Kamelot on guitar, I feel the need to complement my guitar playing with my vocals. That said, I am fine with finding someone else (likely female) to front the band.
#27
Ok, heres what you do. You start writing songs. You also start looking for members. If you never tried to pull a band together before, you dont know how hard it is to find a good drummer and a good basist. If you find one of those, you can count yourself lucky, and if you find both, then you better start playing lottery, because you are the luckiest guy on earth. How to find them? Post adds, in forums, facebook groups for musicians in your area, maybe even flyers and stuff like that. Ask people if they know and musicians, and then ask those musicians if they know any other musicians.
Also look for second guitarist, a singer and a keyboard player.
Also keep taking vocal lessons. Get your teacher to work on your highs with you, and also on head voice. Learn how to scream, its always a good idea to have a scream or growl at your disposal (just look at Kamelot).
If you manage to find all the members, then just start rehearsing the songs you wrote in the meantime. If you get an entire band togehter, but no singer, start rehersing them anyway, and you sing. If you like what you hear, then there will be no need for a separate singer. If you dont, keep searching for one. Its also much more likely that you will attract a singer if you have a full band together and a few demo recordings as well.
This entire process will, at least in my experience, take over a year. You will go trough many people, burn a lot of energy and there is no guarantee that you will actually succed. But if you do, you will have a complete band in the end.
Joža je kul. On ma sirove z dodatki pa hambije.