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#1
Im gonna kinda make this a NAD thread as well as a question thread Anyway, about a month ago i got a used Engl powerball, and i have to say i love it. The clean channel is amazing, its sparkly and clean as glacier spring. The crunch channel is great as well, altough it shares the eq with the clean, so its not dialed in exactly as i would like it. I never use it in live shows anyway, so no big deal. The first hi gain channel is goddamn massive, tight as hell and cuts trough the mix like butter. There is also more gain that i know what to do with, i have it at like 9-10oclock, and its more than enough. The second hi gain channel is kinda to much for rhythm playing for me, since its a bit more boomy and not as tight, and it also shares the eq with the first hi gain channel, so i just have it set a bit louder for leads. Works great for that. The built in noisegate is way better than my old boss NS-2. Its as fast as those gates from the phantom menace when they retake the throne room on naboo. The thing is an amazing hi gain metal machine, with so much mids that it sounds like a mountain is crumbling on top of you. Im running it trough a randall oversized 412 cab with V30's. I am however missing separate eq's for all channels and maybe a reverb. I think the powerball 2 has 4 different eqs, but seeing as i only paid 650euro for it, i can live with this. I love the simple two button footswitch i got for it, it really took down the workload during playing, because before i had a whole goddamn pedalboard in from of me, and now i have two buttons and a tuner. I guess im still in the honeymoon stage with it, but so far its been great.

But. Its just to loud. The other guitarist has a Marshall AVT150 that already sounds horrible as it is, but now it just gets drowned out by my engl. Even when i play it at the same volume as my JetCity before, the engl just cuts over everything else, and the other guitars is almost completely unhearable. But when i turn it down, it doesnt really sound good anymore. Im already playing it with the master volume at 2-2.5, and the separate channel volumes pretty much the same. If i turn it down any more, it looes a lot of tone and sounds kinda stale. Would an attenuator help with this? Or is it because the speakers need to be driven harder to get a good sound? Or do i just have to eq out a bunch of mids, so it doesnt cut as much as it does now?

Anyway, here is a pic of the beast, with my jca on top. Thanks for replies!

Joža je kul. On ma sirove z dodatki pa hambije.
#2
Here are some options:

- An attenuator or re-amper (the Unleash or Power Station are recommended if you need a lot of attenuation).
- A less efficient speaker (might only drop a few dB off the volume).
- A volume pedal in the effect loop (it will keep the preamp gain constant, but the power tube distortion, if you rely on it, won't be there).
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#3
Well, I guess 4x12" are made for being loud (V30 are loud!). If this is only a problem when rehearsing, you could buy a cabinet with fewer speakers or try to run the existing cab with fewer speakers. Also if you share the same eq band with the other guitar, you both simply can't be heard. Have you tried EQing both of your amps when rehearsing?
Last edited by blacknex at Jul 10, 2016,
#4
I'd start with a less efficient speaker (and fewer of them!). Attenuators are expensive and tend to dull the tone pretty badly. Putting a volume pedal in the loop is pointless on an amp with a master volume. There's no way you're pushing the amp into power tube distortion at these levels, so don't worry about that.

You can also pull two tubes to bring the power down. Remember to adjust the impedance to match (e.g., if you are using an 8 ohm cab, select the 4 ohm out on the head instead of the 8). It won't make a huge difference but you might as well give it a try.
#5
^ probably what colin said

or the more obvious solution which is to tell your other guitarist to get a better amp
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#6
Well, drowning out an AVT is not always a bad thing...

*Try turning down the master and re-EQing to bring back some of the fullness our ears perceive with louder music (see Fletcher-Munson curves). Simply understanding that we need to increase the bass to perceive the same tone when we turn down the volume may be enough.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fletcher%E2%80%93Munson_curves

* If that doesn't get you there, run a smaller 2x12 cab to reduce volume approx. 6db (the same as reducing your power output by 75%.

* An attenuator works ok up to about -6db and then requires re-EQ. Same issue as turning down the master volume.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
Last edited by Cajundaddy at Jul 10, 2016,
#7
A good attenuator could be a thing, like Fryette Power Station.

You could also loan your JCA to the other guitarist...
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#8
So you want to destroy the tone of your amp because the other guitarist has a shit amp? Huh? It's his problem, not yours. Let him buy a better amp.
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#9
Seriously, your other guitarist just needs a better amp.

Also, if you have a master volume, you shouldn't be turning your individual channel volumes down. That's why your tone gets shitty. Leave your channel volume/gain knobs where they should be, and adjust volume using the master volume. If your master is at the lowest it can can get before cutting sound entirely, and you still can't hear the other guy... there's no solution. He needs a better amp. Period.
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#10
Quote by Roc8995
You can also pull two tubes to bring the power down. Remember to adjust the impedance to match (e.g., if you are using an 8 ohm cab, select the 4 ohm out on the head instead of the 8). It won't make a huge difference but you might as well give it a try.


after wrestling with my splawns, i have come to the point i only run them on half power. there is an audible difference, not with every amp though.

going with a 2x12" with less efficiency speakers is a good thing too.

if you do both, you will probably be able to get by.

...ohh... and tell your buddy to get new amp.
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#11
Quote by Sakke
A good attenuator could be a thing, like Fryette Power Station.

You could also loan your JCA to the other guitarist...


I suggested that. I even told him he can use my pedalboard for the effects and whatnot that he will loose with the jca, but he says he just loves the builtin effects and the flexibility of the AVT to much. Luckily the head itself iseems to be drying, since the fan is rattling and moaning like hell, and sometimes te whole thing spazzes out and starts making a staticky noise. Fun fact: another friend also had an AVT and he had to take it to a repair shop so many times that he eventually just left it there.

Im gonna think about maybe getting a 212 cab, altough i dont reallz wanna get to expensive with this, since it really isnt bothering me that much. Ill try to dig up some cheap atennuators, but i dont think im gonna go about pulling tubes from the amp. Im not reallz that comfortable with messing around inside amps.

Quote by blacknex
Well, I guess 4x12" are made for being loud (V30 are loud!). If this is only a problem when rehearsing, you could buy a cabinet with fewer speakers or try to run the existing cab with fewer speakers. Also if you share the same eq band with the other guitar, you both simply can't be heard. Have you tried EQing both of your amps when rehearsing?


Yes, we did try to eq to both be heard, but it isnt working. When i mess with the AVT and get at least into a ballpark of a decent tone, the other guitarist already doesnt like it.

Honestly, i think im just gonna have my amp set up like i want it and let him deal with hearing himself To be fair, he was talking about getting a new Blackstar or whatever, but i dont see it happening now that he forked over a bunch of money for some festival tickets.
Joža je kul. On ma sirove z dodatki pa hambije.
Last edited by gorkyporky at Jul 11, 2016,
#14
Quote by AdamHarkus
An eq pedal in the loop, cutting the volume.

If course you could also downgrade to a lower wattage amp too


Amp already has a master volume and lowering the wattage won't solve the problem he's discussing.

The problem lies with the other guitarist and can't be effectively fixed by anyone else.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#15
Quote by gorkyporky
Honestly, i think im just gonna have my amp set up like i want it and let him deal with hearing himself To be fair, he was talking about getting a new Blackstar or whatever, but i dont see it happening now that he forked over a bunch of money for some festival tickets.
That's probably your best bet. Drown him out and sound awesome doing it until he comes around to either replace his amp or take you up on the JCA offer.
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#16
Quote by Cathbard
So you want to destroy the tone of your amp because the other guitarist has a shit amp? Huh? It's his problem, not yours. Let him buy a better amp.


Who the fuck are you and what have you done with cath?

The real cath would say "What you really need is a new house".

Your other guitarist does need a new amp though.
Then get a new house.


Quote by Sakke
A good attenuator could be a thing, like Fryette Power Station.

You could also loan your JCA to the other guitarist...

Do this until your other guy gets his shit together. And charge him a rental fee.
Last edited by CodeMonk at Jul 13, 2016,
#17
He doesnt want it. Ive offered like 20 times by now, and he says he doesnt like it cause it doesnt sound as good.

Maybe ill punch him.
Joža je kul. On ma sirove z dodatki pa hambije.
Last edited by gorkyporky at Jul 13, 2016,
#18
Some people just love shit tone. Nothing you can do about that except to gloriously drown him out with your sweet, ENGLy goodness.
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#19
Quote by gorkyporky

Maybe ill punch him.


I'm ok with this...
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
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#21
Quote by gorkyporky

It seems like he is either tone deaf, or he is infatuated with having a Marshall, and maybe has a stigma against JCAs because they aren't as widely known. I remember back in 2000 I bought a Marshall Valvestate to run in stereo along with my Ampeg VH-140C, and as much as I tried to make it work, I had to come to terms with the fact that the Marshall was inferior and not really a very good amp. I wound up returning the amp. Once I got by the infatuation of having a Marshall head, I realized that not all Marshalls are created equal. I know Chuck Schuldiner used a Valvestate, but as much as I love Death, I wouldn't consider their tone to be one of my favorites. Hopefully he'll get past the stigma.
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#22
Quote by gorkyporky



An AVT sounds better than a Jet City?
He's a dumbass.
Punch him.
Then fire him. Seriously.
#23
Yeah, that's grounds for dismissal.
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#24
The thing is, he KNOWS that he has a shitty tone. He hates it, everyone else in the band hates it, but he still wont take my JCA. So its not like he just loves the Marshall, he hates it as well. Just doesnt wanna play my amps, and doesnt have the money for a new one.
Joža je kul. On ma sirove z dodatki pa hambije.
#26
Quote by gorkyporky

The thing is, he KNOWS that he has a shitty tone. He hates it, everyone else in the band hates it, but he still wont take my JCA. So its not like he just loves the Marshall, he hates it as well. Just doesnt wanna play my amps, and doesnt have the money for a new one.

GEEZ, that makes it even worse. hes a fucktard.

To reiterate...
Quote by Cathbard

Yeah, that's grounds for dismissal.


Show him this:
Last edited by CodeMonk at Jul 14, 2016,
#27
Quote by gorkyporky
The thing is, he KNOWS that he has a shitty tone. He hates it, everyone else in the band hates it, but he still wont take my JCA. So its not like he just loves the Marshall, he hates it as well. Just doesnt wanna play my amps, and doesnt have the money for a new one.


Time for a new guitar player or play as a 3 piece. I wouldnt put up with him
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#28
haha wow
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

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#29
Random Questions:

How is the e.q. being set on your buddies Marshall? An AVT150 should have enough oomph to keep up... unless he is scooping the crap out of his mids. Look at his settings next time you see his amp and see if he is doing the whole bass 10 mids 0 treb 10 thing.

Is he running a matching cab?

I've heard plenty of solid state amps in the 100-150w range keep up with tube amps in bands. I suspect he is scooping his mids and is getting washed out on account of that.
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#30
No room for tone deaf musicians in a band. Ever! AVT boy is dismissed.

Perhaps he should take up golf instead?
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#31
Quote by ThunderPunk
Random Questions:

How is the e.q. being set on your buddies Marshall? An AVT150 should have enough oomph to keep up... unless he is scooping the crap out of his mids. Look at his settings next time you see his amp and see if he is doing the whole bass 10 mids 0 treb 10 thing.

Is he running a matching cab?

I've heard plenty of solid state amps in the 100-150w range keep up with tube amps in bands. I suspect he is scooping his mids and is getting washed out on account of that.


He is running the matching avt cab. Its a 4x10 cab i think . The settings arent really that scooped if i remember right. But the whole thing has some kind of fizzy buzzing sound, that is just all over the place for some reason. There might actually be something wrong with the amp, because it can at times also just drop out or start buzzing like a motherfucker.

I was actually yhinking of throwing the guy out, but he does come up with very ineresting riffs and ideas that complement my material very well. The songs that we colaborate on are usually very good. But his fucking sound....
Joža je kul. On ma sirove z dodatki pa hambije.
#32
Tubes are cheap. Buy him a new JJ ecc83S tube and swap it out.
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#33
ecc 83s = 12ax7 right? Because i have a few spares for those.
Joža je kul. On ma sirove z dodatki pa hambije.
#34
Yeah
Gilchrist custom
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Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#35
I'll go against the grain here and recommend you both lose those amps and get small combos- get amps that sound good at lower volumes, like Mesas, and your band will sound 100 times better.I don't know if you guys gig or not, but volumes wars between guitarists is a recipe for suck at any show from a sound standpoint. If the sweetspot of your amp is too loud, you're going screw up the stage sound of your whole band, which will ruin the soundman's ability to get a good sound out on the floor.
#36
i'm not sure why you'd want a small combo for hard rock or metal tones. it's all well and good saying "sweet spot" but I don't much see the point if that sweet spot still doesn't sound the way you want it to.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#37
Quote by Dave_Mc
i'm not sure why you'd want a small combo for hard rock or metal tones. it's all well and good saying "sweet spot" but I don't much see the point if that sweet spot still doesn't sound the way you want it to.


agreed.
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#38
Quote by Dave_Mc
i'm not sure why you'd want a small combo for hard rock or metal tones. it's all well and good saying "sweet spot" but I don't much see the point if that sweet spot still doesn't sound the way you want it to.


+3.1415 i don't think that a small combo would sound much better at much lower volume.
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nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#40
Dave_Mc

The whole point of this thread is that his amp is too loud- there are plenty of amps that sound great at respectible volumes, such as Mesa 30 watt combos - the express, the Nomads etc and other amps by other manufacturers as well. You don't need a 100 watt head and a 4×12 to get good heavy tones, in fact, i would confidently say that those amps are overkill for anything except very large venues.
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