#1
As much as I stand by Reaper for what it's capable of and its features, the fact of the matter is when you get to the professional recording realm, Reaper is NOT seen. If anything, while not said up-front, it's stigmatized: The low price-point and easy access to beginners and Youtube guitar-cover kids results in a majority shitty content being produced with it, and you're pretty much laughed at and dismissed as an amateur if you state it's your DAW of choice (trust me, I've been there. =\ ).


What DAW's out there match with Reaper's capability but at the same time sit in the professional realm? The ones I'm looking at mostly are Cubase and Sonar, Cubase I like because it looks like it's what Reaper modeled a lot after but is a bit pricey for me atm, Sonar looks good but I also don't know if that's considered a "top shelf" DAW either.

I'd prefer to stay away from Pro Tools as I hate it, don't give a flying fuck about the "industry standard" hype Avid puts out because the DAW imo is a piece of shit for the price tag they put on it, not to mention feature-lacking. Logic looks cool but I've heard it can be screwy with Windows based machines.


Some key features looking for:

•Track folder ability
•Key command customization (not super necessary)
•VST Support
•Good CPU utilization
•Unlimited inserts/sends
#2
Pro Tools and Logic (OSX) are used by nearly everyone doing commercial work or film scores. Choose wisely.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#3
Actually Reaper is taking quite a following, including professional guys in Europe. Not so sure you want to discount it offhand. There are things that are quirky, I give you that, but so are most of the other DAWs.

Digital Performer for score writer and if you have a Mac.
Logic as already mentioned, Mac only.

Studio One is really good and that's what I am on at the moment.

Cubase's more expensive sibling, Nuendo is used by quite a few big name producers. Some people use Cubase as well for that, and it is quite capable. I just wouldn't want to go back the the nightmare that is their licensing/cust. support.

Pro Tools as already mentioned.

Samplitude by Magix is another name rarely mentioned here, probably due to the high cost. It could also be "rented" monthly, like picking up a car note

Sonar is another one that is quite good, especially if you're into score composing and working with midi. Very robust midi features, probably DP only can do more or easier workflow. Worth investigating for sure.

For ease of use and features I love Studio One. I have the most expensive version but I did a crossgrade early on (v.1) from Sonar 7 and they haven't managed to disappoint me yet. Comes with a full mastering suite, amp modeling which can load custo IRs, you can even create your own IRs, convolution verb/etc. that also loads IRs, a slew of great compressor, eq, etc. Sonar probably is the only one that came close with the quality of plugins off the bat. Honestly, I've had to use 3rd party stuff less and less with Studio One as I feel their plugins sound very good. Only place I find S1 lacking is on midi score and notation, it doesn't have the staff notation, at least not in ver. 2 as I haven't upgraded to 3 although I bought it, just been too busy recording. I use TuxGuitar (freeware) or my older copy of Snoar 7 when I need to edit midi score or print score, it works ok for me so far.
#4
Sorry - just checked Digital Performer and is now available for Windows too!

Now I might have to rethink my next DAW move as I loved its midi editing features and especially its humanize options, best in the biz! Another thing I loved about it was the fact when you write a midi score for drums you could mute and export certain tracks out of the same midi file, it was very quick for drum editing when you render your drums as wav files.
#5
Quote by diabolical
Actually Reaper is taking quite a following, including professional guys in Europe. Not so sure you want to discount it offhand. There are things that are quirky, I give you that, but so are most of the other DAWs.
Who though? Like anyone who's big named in the recording industry?

I'm always hearing how Reaper is becoming more established in the industry but I almost never hear a specific name mentioned. Except for maybe Glenn Fricker but I personally don't consider him an industry-level engineer even if he knows what he's talking about most of the time.

I have literally no problem with the functionality of Reaper, and tbh I regard to it greatly. It's just not considered by many players in this field as professional and I want to be able to go places when I graduate. Can't stay latched-on to our childhood toys forever, you know. =P


Quote by diabolical
Digital Performer for score writer and if you have a Mac.
Logic as already mentioned, Mac only.
Digital Performer I always thought was awesome, but rather overkill for what I mostly plan on doing, not to mention expensive. =S


Quote by diabolical
Studio One is really good and that's what I am on at the moment.
Forgot about this one, I'm hearing about it a lot and have been meaning to try it although some have said it's a bit buggy. Might run through the demo at some point if there is one.


Quote by diabolical
Cubase's more expensive sibling, Nuendo is used by quite a few big name producers. Some people use Cubase as well for that, and it is quite capable. I just wouldn't want to go back the the nightmare that is their licensing/cust. support.
I've actually liked Cubase for the limited time that I've used it, you can tell a lot of Reaper's key features were modeled after Cubase's design. I see it like Reaper and Pro Tools mixed together.


Quote by diabolical
Pro Tools as already mentioned.
And as I mentioned, can't stand it. Buggy even at version 12, the dreaded iLok system, and also lacking of many features I consider essential to my workflow (no track folders, inability to undo deleted tracks or inserts, limited number of sends/inserts, no VST Support, shitty hardware support, still using the old-school bus-routing style, I could go on and on...). It's $600 software that feels like $50 software. IMO it's "Industry Standard" only because Avid has 70% of the recording industry bought out.


Quote by diabolical
Samplitude by Magix is another name rarely mentioned here, probably due to the high cost. It could also be "rented" monthly, like picking up a car note

Sonar is another one that is quite good, especially if you're into score composing and working with midi. Very robust midi features, probably DP only can do more or easier workflow. Worth investigating for sure.
I mentioned I looked into Sonar before but I wasn't aware of it's midi features. o: While I'm not doing anything at the level that'd require DP I do a lot of drum programming so it might be pretty useful there.

Another thing that it's steering me towards it is that it's on Steam which I think is the BEST way to license-protect software, as an alternative to iLoks or other smart-key crap.

Quote by diabolical
For ease of use and features I love Studio One. I have the most expensive version but I did a crossgrade early on (v.1) from Sonar 7 and they haven't managed to disappoint me yet. Comes with a full mastering suite, amp modeling which can load custo IRs, you can even create your own IRs, convolution verb/etc. that also loads IRs, a slew of great compressor, eq, etc. Sonar probably is the only one that came close with the quality of plugins off the bat. Honestly, I've had to use 3rd party stuff less and less with Studio One as I feel their plugins sound very good. Only place I find S1 lacking is on midi score and notation, it doesn't have the staff notation, at least not in ver. 2 as I haven't upgraded to 3 although I bought it, just been too busy recording. I use TuxGuitar (freeware) or my older copy of Snoar 7 when I need to edit midi score or print score, it works ok for me so far.
I've been leaning towards Sonar the most so far but StudioOne is definitely a consideration now, considering how it has most of the useful features from Reaper that I stand by, and that I've seen it utilized at industry level.


Thank you for recommendations, more are still welcome.
#6
I take iLok over Steam anyday, and I hate iLok with a passion. About Reaper - a lot of professional guys doing gigs like film scoring , jingle writing shops, etc. are moving to Reaper because of cost of licensing. Imagine you have 20 writers working for you and want ot get them all on the same platform - Reaper starts to look really good at that level. There are a lot of guys on the SoundOnSound.com forum that are paid engineers that make a living out of music, which is the definition of professional, I guess
BTW - Pro Tools has gotten buggy since the introduction spurred by used demands, i.e. more toy like stuff like amp modelling, different vst support, etc. I've used PT professionally, mostly version 6 and 7 with their $10,000 hardware cards (don't remember what it was called, HD2 I think) and the older G5s with Motorola chipset, which was about the only solid way you could run a studio session at the time. Some of the workflow was awkward but Pro Tools was so solid that it was almost as problem free as a tape machine. I haven't had such a trouble free session in a long time and everything in that market has gone up in specs.
If you haven't worked on HD system, yes, Pro Tools is just as buggy as Cubase if not more.
#8
Cherry Vulpine
What are you trying to accomplish? Setting up a business? Doing film work? Or are you simply making music ? If you're just making music you'd be a fool to buy another DAW for hundreds of dollars if Reaper is meeting your needs. Reaper is the best deal in audio - it's cheap because the owner/developer made a fortune in his young days selling Winamp and wants the product to be affordable. Every other product out there, with the excption of Logic, has one focus - extracting as much money from you on a regular basis as possible. Cubase is great, but it's expensive, requires a dongle, and comes packaged with a lot of plugins you may not need.
#9
Sony ACID is also out there.
Quote by Watterboy
Do you have any dilithium crystals or fresh warm dumps for sale
#10
Quote by reverb66
Cherry Vulpine
What are you trying to accomplish? Setting up a business? Doing film work? Or are you simply making music ? If you're just making music you'd be a fool to buy another DAW for hundreds of dollars if Reaper is meeting your needs. Reaper is the best deal in audio - it's cheap because the owner/developer made a fortune in his young days selling Winamp and wants the product to be affordable. Every other product out there, with the excption of Logic, has one focus - extracting as much money from you on a regular basis as possible. Cubase is great, but it's expensive, requires a dongle, and comes packaged with a lot of plugins you may not need.


Agreed. DAW software is just a tool for making music. If what you have isn't broke, don't fix it. When Pixar calls and wants to put your music into their next feature film, you can transfer your WAV files into any DAW software anywhere, no muss no fuss. Hand-wringing over DAW brand snobs in other studios is just nonsense and a waste of energy. Who cares what other people think as long as you are getting it done? F'ck em.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
Last edited by Cajundaddy at Jul 20, 2016,
#12
Quote by diabolical
the chemistthey just sokd out to Magix (Samplitude) as Sony for the most part kept repackaging Acid 4.0 up to 7.0 with all kinds of bugs and quirks and finally sold all the Sonic Foundry products.


Didn't know that, the last thing I ever used of Sony was a DMX-R100.
Quote by Watterboy
Do you have any dilithium crystals or fresh warm dumps for sale
#13
Quote by diabolical
BTW - Pro Tools has gotten buggy since the introduction spurred by used demands, i.e. more toy like stuff like amp modelling, different vst support, etc. I've used PT professionally, mostly version 6 and 7 with their $10,000 hardware cards (don't remember what it was called, HD2 I think) and the older G5s with Motorola chipset, which was about the only solid way you could run a studio session at the time. Some of the workflow was awkward but Pro Tools was so solid that it was almost as problem free as a tape machine. I haven't had such a trouble free session in a long time and everything in that market has gone up in specs.
If you haven't worked on HD system, yes, Pro Tools is just as buggy as Cubase if not more.
I've seen Pro Tools run on an HDX system (school has it in their studio computer) and there are still bugs galore. Granted, this was earlier this year when PT12 was still kinda new so it's probably improved.

Regardless, I don't have $10,000 dollars to spend on an Avid HDX system so it's an unlikely choice.


Quote by reverb66
Cherry Vulpine
What are you trying to accomplish? Setting up a business? Doing film work? Or are you simply making music ? If you're just making music you'd be a fool to buy another DAW for hundreds of dollars if Reaper is meeting your needs. Reaper is the best deal in audio - it's cheap because the owner/developer made a fortune in his young days selling Winamp and wants the product to be affordable. Every other product out there, with the excption of Logic, has one focus - extracting as much money from you on a regular basis as possible. Cubase is great, but it's expensive, requires a dongle, and comes packaged with a lot of plugins you may not need.
I would agree with that for some (Avid primarily) but how so with Sonar or Cubase?

What I'm trying to accomplish is after I graduate I not only be a successful musician but successful in music production and recording engineering. Primarily of bands with live instruments, no large-scale composing or film work. My experience so far only as a STUDENT of music production has shown that if you are a Reaper user, you are looked down upon in a sense, seen as an amateur by industry-level people if you present that it's your DAW of choice up front (hell, even as a Reaper user I'll do this if someone tells me it's what they use as their primary tool).

An ironic sense of this, not to sound arrogant, is that some Pro Tools users who have criticized me for using Reaper have admitted to being envious of some of my mixes. With that one can say a DAW is a DAW and it's all the engineer that matters, but I plan on going places in this industry, and if a client or higher-up sees that the engineer is utilizing the tool of choice of Youtube guitar-cover kids, it won't reflect well.

It's about looking good on paper, that's why I intend on making a switch.


Quote by Cajundaddy
Agreed. DAW software is just a tool for making music. If what you have isn't broke, don't fix it. When Pixar calls and wants to put your music into their next feature film, you can transfer your WAV files into any DAW software anywhere, no muss no fuss. Hand-wringing over DAW brand snobs in other studios is just nonsense and a waste of energy. Who cares what other people think as long as you are getting it done? F'ck em.
You can say "fuck 'em" all you want but when it comes too getting a job to begin with, people will judge if Reaper is DAW of choice.

I have enough personal experience with people, some at industry level, passing me off immediately as amateur off the bat for utilizing Reaper as my primary DAW, I do it myself with a lot of people who use it for themselves (and it's usually the case), and quite honestly I have yet to meet or hear of someone with a significant reputation using it. It may be powerful as a DAW but in the end it's status renders it as a kid's toy.

So no it's not a waste of time, not if you want to obtain a job or present yourself as a professional in my books as well as the books of many others in this field.


If life were easy I'd resort straight to Pro Tools, but I've already stated why it doesn't work for me.


Quote by AdamHarkus
I've found Ableton live to be the most intuitive of all.
Wasn't a huge fan when I tried it, at least for what I intend on doing. I think it's great for an electronic producer but it's far overkill for my needs.
#14
Cherry Vulpine If your concern is appearances, Pro Tools is the only DAW that matters for the older generation and large studios. Cubase would be the next in line for appearances on PC. Logic would be the obvious choice on Mac.
#15
If Reaper is suiting your needs, keep it, and keep using it. If you want something to look good on paper, get the lowest version of ProTools you can get and then you can say "I have ProTools." Then keep using Reaper.

Pipelineaudio I have seen on this forum. He has sworn by Reaper, and he has worked with Megadeth, Sheryl Crow and Gin Blossoms. That's about as pro as you get.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#16
I don't get it. So, you have no problem using Reaper, and it fulfills your needs, correct? If your mixes are comparable to those made by people using Pro tools, then why does the brand of the tool matter? That's like wanting to replace your $500 guitar with a $1500 guitar just so you can say that you play a $1500 guitar. Don't let other people's opinions influence you to needlessly spend your money. That's just my opinion though...
#17
Quote by Cajundaddy
Pro Tools and Logic (OSX) are used by nearly everyone doing commercial work or film scores. Choose wisely.


Pretty much. A few people are using Cubase.
Current Gear:
LTD MH-400 with Gotoh GE1996T (EMG 85/60)
PRS SE Custom 24 (Suhr SSH+/SSV)
Ibanez RG3120 Prestige (Dimarzio Titans)
Squier Vintage Modified 70s Jazz V
Audient iD22 interface
Peavey Revalver 4, UAD Friedman BE100/DS40
Adam S3A monitors
Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
#18
Quote by Cherry Vulpine
I've seen Pro Tools run on an HDX system (school has it in their studio computer) and there are still bugs galore. Granted, this was earlier this year when PT12 was still kinda new so it's probably improved.

Regardless, I don't have $10,000 dollars to spend on an Avid HDX system so it's an unlikely choice.


Then, why are we bothered about what is PRO and what's not? Big boys play with big toys. If you want to be a professional you'd have to have professional gear.
If you can't afford a PRO system, why worry that you're on Reaper?
#19
Quote by Cherry Vulpine
I've seen Pro Tools run on an HDX system (school has it in their studio computer) and there are still bugs galore. Granted, this was earlier this year when PT12 was still kinda new so it's probably improved.

Regardless, I don't have $10,000 dollars to spend on an Avid HDX system so it's an unlikely choice.


I would agree with that for some (Avid primarily) but how so with Sonar or Cubase?

What I'm trying to accomplish is after I graduate I not only be a successful musician but successful in music production and recording engineering. Primarily of bands with live instruments, no large-scale composing or film work. My experience so far only as a STUDENT of music production has shown that if you are a Reaper user, you are looked down upon in a sense, seen as an amateur by industry-level people if you present that it's your DAW of choice up front (hell, even as a Reaper user I'll do this if someone tells me it's what they use as their primary tool).

An ironic sense of this, not to sound arrogant, is that some Pro Tools users who have criticized me for using Reaper have admitted to being envious of some of my mixes. With that one can say a DAW is a DAW and it's all the engineer that matters, but I plan on going places in this industry, and if a client or higher-up sees that the engineer is utilizing the tool of choice of Youtube guitar-cover kids, it won't reflect well.

It's about looking good on paper, that's why I intend on making a switch.


You can say "fuck 'em" all you want but when it comes too getting a job to begin with, people will judge if Reaper is DAW of choice.
So no it's not a waste of time, not if you want to obtain a job or present yourself as a professional in my books as well as the books of many others in this field.
If life were easy I'd resort straight to Pro Tools, but I've already stated why it doesn't work for me.
.


If you want to get an engineering job in a pro commercial studio, you must be fluent in ProTools and Logic. Period. You must speak fluently in the language they speak. No other DAW software will get you in the door. You CAN sweep floors, empty trash cans, set up mic stands and learn the trade from the inside out though. A much better path to success IMO as several friends have done exactly this.

If you want to have your work produced in a pro studio, you are paying the bill so they must work with your WAV files in whatever DAW you used. They will politely transfer your work into their ProTools format and away you go. The golden rule applies here. Whoever shares the gold makes the rules.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
Last edited by Cajundaddy at Jul 22, 2016,
#20
Quote by oneblackened
Pretty much. A few people are using Cubase.


Nuendo more than Cubase, TBF.
Quote by Watterboy
Do you have any dilithium crystals or fresh warm dumps for sale
#21
Quote by the chemist
Nuendo more than Cubase, TBF.
A few bigger engineers in the metalcore scene (namely Sturgis) are using Cubase primarily. Chuck Ainlay uses Cubase as well, and he's much more pop music focused.
Current Gear:
LTD MH-400 with Gotoh GE1996T (EMG 85/60)
PRS SE Custom 24 (Suhr SSH+/SSV)
Ibanez RG3120 Prestige (Dimarzio Titans)
Squier Vintage Modified 70s Jazz V
Audient iD22 interface
Peavey Revalver 4, UAD Friedman BE100/DS40
Adam S3A monitors
Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
#22
Quote by axemanchris
If Reaper is suiting your needs, keep it, and keep using it. If you want something to look good on paper, get the lowest version of ProTools you can get and then you can say "I have ProTools." Then keep using Reaper.

Pipelineaudio I have seen on this forum. He has sworn by Reaper, and he has worked with Megadeth, Sheryl Crow and Gin Blossoms. That's about as pro as you get.

CT
It's funny you say this because I did have a conversation with some guys about opening a studio, and how most people expect for there to still be a board.

My plan was to just have just a cheaper used 80's Tascam board or something similar just sitting out for display for when clients first see the studio but never actually do any recording on it. Looks are everything to people who don't know better. xD


This is the long future though...


Quote by BlackFalcon17
I don't get it. So, you have no problem using Reaper, and it fulfills your needs, correct? If your mixes are comparable to those made by people using Pro tools, then why does the brand of the tool matter? That's like wanting to replace your $500 guitar with a $1500 guitar just so you can say that you play a $1500 guitar. Don't let other people's opinions influence you to needlessly spend your money. That's just my opinion though...
Well, all I know is for a band, I wouldn't hire a guy with a Squier and Line 6 Spider halfstack. Even if he knows how to magically make the thing sound like a PRS through a Mark V, I wouldn't assume that right off the bat.

Same deal with Reaper, to me the phrase "I'm a Reaper user" screams "I'm a bedroom rock producer and I only went with it cause I can use it for free." If it says anything, 90% of who I've known who has said they prefer it knows NOTHING about how to use it to even half of it's fullest potential, and went with it because it was $60 (like I mention the presence track folders or the routing to them and they look at me with a blank stare).

I actually initially went and stuck with it because I got a lower-end version of Pro Tools, and had a terrible experience with it (yet, all the problems I had then still persist in the high-end version and even more now).


Quote by Cajundaddy
If you want to get an engineering job in a pro commercial studio, you must be fluent in ProTools and Logic. Period. You must speak fluently in the language they speak. No other DAW software will get you in the door. You CAN sweep floors, empty trash cans, set up mic stands and learn the trade from the inside out though. A much better path to success IMO as several friends have done exactly this.
Not entirely, a lot of the metal realm (where I lie) runs on Cubase, and less-frequently Logic. Especially with Djent even if that's dying off. A lot of modern metal relies on that quantized sound with maximum precision, mostly reliant on MIDI instruments so it makes sense they'd use those two (surprising that I don't see Sonar more often in the scene).

The language part is absolutely correct tho, I've had to take 2 Pro Tools courses at my college and know my way through the program decently, but I simply can't stand using it. Some features I commonly use that require 3-4 buttons to execute require 1-2 in Reaper, or in some cases can be done with just the mouse. Every time I use Pro Tools it just feels like a downgrade, it shouldn't feel this way next to what's essentially a beginner's DAW that's a 10th of the price.


Studio One and Sonar so far have me the most convinced, but going the "I have Pro Tools" route with the lowest end I can get while using Reaper behind the scenes is also a consideration.
#23
I saw a video where Timbaland was using Cubase as well. He's one of the world's top dudes.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#24
I would NEVER hire any engineer to track/edit/mix my work, or even have an assistant when I'm engineering, who cannot use ProTools fluently. That's just the way it is with me. Even if they aren't / I'm not using ProTools on the session, wouldn't do it. If you think that's stupid, then that's good for you. ProTools is what it is: the standard. If you think it's too 'difficult' or 'confusing', then you are mentally deficient, end of argument. Every other DAW takes what ProTools did/does and presents it in a different way, some times detrimentally. So the argument like "Logic lets me click this one button and these 5 things happen, whereas ProTools is this, then this, then these, then this, then this.' Great! Maybe I want to skip a step in there for a reason. Besides, you should know how to do that process manually anyways.

Presets are the big shit that I hate. Presets have ruined people's understanding of how processors work. Too many people go 'I load this Plug-In and use this preset that sounds perfect'. Do you know WHY it sounds perfect? Do you know WHAT that compressor is actually doing to the sound? Do you know how to properly SET a Compressor/Gate/LA? Probably not, because you've been spoiled with presets. I learned on physical gear. I couldn't just slam a BF1176 onto a vocal and load the 'Vocal Limiter' preset; I had to learn what that Blackface 1176 did, how it affects the sound, how it interacts and meshes with everything else before it and after it in the chain, how it can drastically modify the feel and emotion of the track. AND HOW TO MANAGE THE NOISE FLOOR.

I would LOVE to see some of these new engineers play the Signal-to-Noise-Floor games we used to in the days of Analog boards/signal paths/recording mediums. Even ADAT machines were noisy (and had that 'beautiful' 3.5k hump). They're be complete shit, guaranteed. Why? Because the noise floor was a REAL challenge to master. We didn't have magical plugins that cleaned that shit up. Very few people here will remember seeing 361s and 301s all though a studio, which I guess is great and all, but I think that DAWS have really killed what being an engineer was all about. Man vs. Machine, but also Man with Machine. It was a fine balance between love and hate.

TL/DR: Man yells at kids.
Quote by Watterboy
Do you have any dilithium crystals or fresh warm dumps for sale
#25
You're usually a really reasonable guy. This post seems really out of character for you. Sure, PT is a standard, and really, if you can work your way around Cubase or Logic or whatever, you can probably find your way around PT fairly intuitively, I would expect. I had to re-learn some keyboard shortcuts last I used PT (which was ages ago....), but never once found myself thinking, "Gee, I really feel like I have to learn this."

Your point is very well taken about actually knowing *what* you're doing - what the difference is between an LA2A and an 1176, or what the consequences are of having too fast - or too slow - an attack on the compressor, etc. Yeah, you need to know that stuff. But, your DAW replaces the tape machine. It is simply the interface between the music and the medium it gets stored on. The process of recording and mixing has little to do with what DAW you are using, and thus, has little to do with how well it will turn out. (assuming you are using a quality DAW and not trying to use Audacity or something...)

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#26
Quote by axemanchris
You're usually a really reasonable guy. This post seems really out of character for you. Sure, PT is a standard, and really, if you can work your way around Cubase or Logic or whatever, you can probably find your way around PT fairly intuitively, I would expect. I had to re-learn some keyboard shortcuts last I used PT (which was ages ago....), but never once found myself thinking, "Gee, I really feel like I have to learn this."

Your point is very well taken about actually knowing *what* you're doing - what the difference is between an LA2A and an 1176, or what the consequences are of having too fast - or too slow - an attack on the compressor, etc. Yeah, you need to know that stuff. But, your DAW replaces the tape machine. It is simply the interface between the music and the medium it gets stored on. The process of recording and mixing has little to do with what DAW you are using, and thus, has little to do with how well it will turn out. (assuming you are using a quality DAW and not trying to use Audacity or something...)

CT



It's more a growing frustration where people 'take sides' with their DAW as if it's the only correct way to do things, and go retarded when it gets slagged. Like, if you point out a flaw in Cubase, the Cubase users go apeshit defending it and pointing out bigger flaws in PT/Logic/Sonar/DP/what have you. It's laughable really.

I think my point here was that I only hire experienced people, who learned on ProTools when the alternatives were Cubase Audio (A direct rip-off of the TDM system) and SADiE.

To be fair, the early Cubase releases were garbage. If you never used them, feel lucky. Take Pro Tools, strip away the useful stuff, and there you go. It even used Pro Tools TDM audio and Digidesign hardware.

SADiE was neat and kinda fun, but useful.
Quote by Watterboy
Do you have any dilithium crystals or fresh warm dumps for sale
#27
It all comes back to choosing the best tool to meet your goals. If you want to make music just for yourself, use whatever software floats your boat. You are paying all the bills so you get to decide what works, and opinions of others don't matter. If you want to get hired as an engineer at a commercial studio, you better be damn fluent in Pro Tools and Logic. They are paying the bills and Pro Tools/Logic will be basic requirements If you want to start your own pro studio as a business and attract a lot of paying clients, you probably still need Pro Tools and Logic. Paying customers will want full compatibility with other studios for mixes and mastering.

These days, opening your own studio is a great tax writeoff when you are making a ton of money elsewhere. Most are black holes for dead presidents and nearly all the major studios in LA have closed their doors and laid off all their employees. No $$$ in it.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
Last edited by Cajundaddy at Jul 25, 2016,
#28
Yep. Basically, if you want to be taken seriously, which you claim you do, then you gotta know Pro Tools. No if, ands, or buts. Every pro studio I've seen primarily uses Pro Tools, and you're expected to know it if you wanna work there. For your own home studio, use whatever you want. It doesn't matter. I use both REAPER and Pro Tools, REAPER for messing around trying stuff, since it's a little more plug-and-play, and Pro Tools for more serious work.
#29
I keep Reaper around for quick things (like if I want to transpose up a song I'm playing along to, or something).

If I'm working professionally, it's Pro Tools every single time. Most any studio you go to is gonna have Pro Tools so it's good to at LEAST know the basics. It also makes transferring between studios far easier. You just need the .ptx and the audio files and you're good to go. You don't need to spend the time bouncing tracks.

That, and Beat Detective is the homie.
Current Gear:
LTD MH-400 with Gotoh GE1996T (EMG 85/60)
PRS SE Custom 24 (Suhr SSH+/SSV)
Ibanez RG3120 Prestige (Dimarzio Titans)
Squier Vintage Modified 70s Jazz V
Audient iD22 interface
Peavey Revalver 4, UAD Friedman BE100/DS40
Adam S3A monitors
Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
#30
Quote by oneblackened
I keep Reaper around for quick things (like if I want to transpose up a song I'm playing along to, or something).

If I'm working professionally, it's Pro Tools every single time. Most any studio you go to is gonna have Pro Tools so it's good to at LEAST know the basics. It also makes transferring between studios far easier. You just need the .ptx and the audio files and you're good to go. You don't need to spend the time bouncing tracks.


TBF, you only need the Broadcast Wave files; they'll put themselves in the correct place based on Timecode.
Quote by Watterboy
Do you have any dilithium crystals or fresh warm dumps for sale
#31
Quote by the chemist
I think that DAWS have really killed what being an engineer was all about. Man vs. Machine, but also Man with Machine. It was a fine balance between love and hate.

TL/DR: Man yells at kids.


Amen!!! NOw we don't have engineers, we have "programmers". Back in the day you'd hire the nerd kid to do your Pro Tools edit while you were busy recording the real album, now those same kids have taken out the artists and the engineer out of the equation and they just program away! Most of the new audio engineering students here in Houston graduate and haven't even recorded a live band. They know squat about acoustics or musicians interacting with each other, room bleed, etc.
#32
Quote by diabolical
Amen!!! NOw we don't have engineers, we have "programmers". Back in the day you'd hire the nerd kid to do your Pro Tools edit while you were busy recording the real album, now those same kids have taken out the artists and the engineer out of the equation and they just program away! Most of the new audio engineering students here in Houston graduate and haven't even recorded a live band. They know squat about acoustics or musicians interacting with each other, room bleed, etc.


Meanwhile, I'm here like "it's a tape machine I can mix on".

I greatly prefer working with actual instruments.
Current Gear:
LTD MH-400 with Gotoh GE1996T (EMG 85/60)
PRS SE Custom 24 (Suhr SSH+/SSV)
Ibanez RG3120 Prestige (Dimarzio Titans)
Squier Vintage Modified 70s Jazz V
Audient iD22 interface
Peavey Revalver 4, UAD Friedman BE100/DS40
Adam S3A monitors
Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
#33
Quote by oneblackened
Meanwhile, I'm here like "it's a tape machine I can mix on".

I greatly prefer working with actual instruments.


Well, it depends what you want to do. If you want to record human performance, then most definitely. Unfortunately, technology has permeated so much into music that if people now don't hear the clicks of the triggered drums in metal and if the performance is not on a grid, they refer to it as "unprofessional". Thanks to deaf producers like the school of Eyal Levi for that. I think the guy does most of his recording of guitar through a Pod Farm They had him dish out advice on Metalsucks a few months ago and it would've been all wrong in the context of some of the most successful metal albums like Slayer's "Reign in Blood" or Metallica's "Master...".
#34
Quote by diabolical
Well, it depends what you want to do. If you want to record human performance, then most definitely. Unfortunately, technology has permeated so much into music that if people now don't hear the clicks of the triggered drums in metal and if the performance is not on a grid, they refer to it as "unprofessional". Thanks to deaf producers like the school of Eyal Levi for that. I think the guy does most of his recording of guitar through a Pod Farm They had him dish out advice on Metalsucks a few months ago and it would've been all wrong in the context of some of the most successful metal albums like Slayer's "Reign in Blood" or Metallica's "Master...".


In all honesty, Eyal and co are a bunch of hacks.
Current Gear:
LTD MH-400 with Gotoh GE1996T (EMG 85/60)
PRS SE Custom 24 (Suhr SSH+/SSV)
Ibanez RG3120 Prestige (Dimarzio Titans)
Squier Vintage Modified 70s Jazz V
Audient iD22 interface
Peavey Revalver 4, UAD Friedman BE100/DS40
Adam S3A monitors
Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
#35
... And then there was Bob Rock's stellar production on St. Anger...

/trolling/

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#36
Quote by axemanchris
... And then there was Bob Rock's stellar production on St. Anger...

/trolling/

CT


God, Randy Staub (the guy who did all the 90s metallica)'s mix for that was actually stellar. Unlike Bob's.

Current Gear:
LTD MH-400 with Gotoh GE1996T (EMG 85/60)
PRS SE Custom 24 (Suhr SSH+/SSV)
Ibanez RG3120 Prestige (Dimarzio Titans)
Squier Vintage Modified 70s Jazz V
Audient iD22 interface
Peavey Revalver 4, UAD Friedman BE100/DS40
Adam S3A monitors
Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
#37
While it is convenient to know your way around all the major daws - especially if you're aiming for a career in production - it will be infinitely more valuable to your customers if you can do the things they want in shortest possible time. That means that you are fluent in the environment of the daw you are using whatever it may be.
#38
Surprised I never replied to this but I decided on what to do:


Since I have the most speed and proficiency in Reaper, and it has worked the most flawlessly in comparison to every other DAW I've tried working with, so that's what I'll be sticking with for the time being. I might try the others recommended like Sonar and Cubase but I'm not gonna fix what ain't broke.

However, Avid gives student discounts on their software (or used to at least) so I can obtain Pro Tools for cheaper, while I don't plan on using it a lot for personal projects, it at least lets me speak the language fluently and again it looks more professional than using the "beginner" or "amateur" DAW for a serious project.


So pretty much, any time where I'm working for or in front of anyone at industry level I'll be on Pro Tools, while behind-the-scenes I'll be making the magic happen with Reaper.