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#1
What are your thoughts on this system?

I'm not familiar with any student loan system outside of Canada's system. I've heard a disproportionate amount of people dissatisfied with student loans in Canada and new students who don't have the financial backing are scared to go into university. Trudeau is in the process of making it so graduates who aren't making above 25,000 a year do not have to pay their student loans back until they make that much or more.

This is mostly applicable to western countries if I believe, since euros have a better system (maybe?). Are you graduated? In school? Going into school? Avoided school? Why and what are your thoughts on the student loan system.
Last edited by severed-metal at Jul 26, 2016,
#2
in b4 Europeans
Quote by JustRooster
That's a shamanic incantation of truth if I ever heard one.
#3
My brother is in a lot of debt for a degree in politics

He works in a call centre
dirtbag ballet by the bins down the alley
as i walk through the chalet of the shadow of death
everything that you've come to expect


#4
Honestly as nice as it would be to have free education or less debt its not exactly productive to have unless you can find a new way of sourcing the income (looking at you war on drugs).

In the UK I already have Welsh Government grants that is like free money that we get extra and a £1500 bursary each year which I am very lucky to have compared to the English/others other than Scottish since they don't have tuition fee's.

But we also don't pay back until we earn over £21k a year after taxes (?) and they call it quits after like 30 or 40 years (subject to change?). Either way I don't feel as hard done by compared to Americans.

Dance in the moonlight my old friend twilight


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Last edited by Nero Galon at Jul 26, 2016,
#5
It should just work as a graduate tax levelled as a proportion of income going up as you earn more

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#6
Student loans are one of the worst loans you can get. In addition to having some of the highest interest rates by class, it is one of the VERY few types of loans in the US that cannot be forgiven by bankruptcy.

During my loan exit interview, literally the first condition that the loan would be forgiven is if I die. LOL

Student loans are ballooning out of control because tuition is out of control. The government's loan policy is largely to blame for the inflation, which enables colleges to charge more and spend more excessively.

I paid off this toxic debt asap and thank fuckin jesus it's no longer on my mind. I will never go back to school unless it's paid for by corporate.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#7
I'm not a holy man, but if I were I would be preaching that interest on student loans is the devil incarnate.
Dance in the moonlight my old friend twilight


Quote by metal4eva_22
What's this about ****ing corpses? My UG senses were tingling.
#9
We have three different 'layers' of college, so I'll just described the process for the one I followed. Basically:
- There is some funding to colleges, but I also had to pay the school (fee was about 1600 Euros/year when I was studying). Also had to pay for everything else (books for my first year were about 1500 Euros, for example)
- Everyone got a basic grant, of about 90 Euros per month.
- Everyone got some form of free public transport (or an equivalent extra sum every month).
- Additional monthly grants were given on the basis of who-the-fuck-knows, the height of which was decided based on who-the-fuck-knows. To illustrate, my sister and brother got an additional grant, because my parents didn't/don't earn a lot and couldn't contribute to our studies. However, I, being the youngest of three, didn't get any additional grants, because my brother and sister already received them and that apparently makes sense.
- Additional loans (paid as a monthly fee) were available for cunts like me.
- If you succesfully completed your studies (within some defined period), you didn't have to pay back the basic/additional grant, nor did you have to pay for the cost of public transport used. If you didn't finish your studies, you were at risk of having to pay those back as well.

This was all when I was studying. Now they've basically switched to giving everyone loans, without the basic grants. Not sure about the further details.
Last edited by ultimate-slash at Jul 26, 2016,
#10
I'd be interested in seeing if government-funded student loans made available in accordance with estimates for need future occupations would work.

e.g., if we need more nurses/research analysts/computer systems analysts in the future, make loans available to nursing students at relatively low interest rates with loan forgiveness options OR if we don't need more business/art history/gender studies/etc. -type jobs, don't make loans available to those students, or have especially high standards (high SAT scores, GPA, excellent credit score, etc.).

The option wouldn't keep a really determined, highly passionate student from finding a way to pay for that education, but it wouldn't incentivize students to load up on debt to prepare for a specific job market with no jobs.


Also, universities/colleges should focus on providing financial aid through philanthropy--go sweet-talk some rich dudes into funding an annual scholarship with their names on it.

Also also, universities/colleges should focus on stopping the rapid growth in overall cost (so students don't need loans so much) and give students options to reject services (e.g., if I don't want to pay $500 in "athletic fees" for tickets to games I'll never attend because I'm busy studying, I'd prefer not to have to).
Quote by JustRooster
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#11
i only went to college for a short time but managed to rack up a few thousand in debt

paid it off like a week after some dude came to my door and handed me some papers telling me i'd be sued or something if i didn't pay them by a certain date, and now it's all good in the hood
#12
I don't have any student loans. I did my undergrad in Singapore where I paid a subsidized tuition rate ($2500/yr). The actual rate was about $9000/yr. After graduation I could either choose to pay the remainder of my tuition upfront, or work until my reported income makes up for the difference between the two rates. I chose to pay some of the difference while continuing to report my income.

Now I'm in grad school and I don't have any loans here either.
cat
#13
I've got student debts but between a likely low-paid future (though of course, I'll work for more) and a ~21k cap before paying, it's easy to feel like the entirety of the student loans system is built on hypothetical money transferred between state institutions. Likely why the government have been attempting to illegally alter their contracts post-signing.

Aeolian Harmony
To be honest the main problem with the arts market in regards to education is simply that, asides from digital democracy, universities now have a quantity>quality preference. If you talk to humanities lecturers about it you're quite likely to hear something about students who wouldn't normally be accepted being let on to fit quotas. But that's not the market that would benefit the universities short term, so they dont.
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Last edited by Banjocal at Jul 26, 2016,
#14
I ended up leaving with about 8000 in debt, roughly half of which is paid of now (three years later). Could have paid that off much faster if I made some different choices (not necessarily better), but I enjoy where I'm at right now.
#15
The idea is good in theory, and a few decades ago before people realized how much money they could make by taking advantage of it, it worked pretty decently. Unfortunately, like most ideas that are good in theory, it's been abused to hell and back and is absurdly broken.
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#16
I went to college for a year and my fees were paid for by the government or something, and I got a decent bursary

I went to college separately a couple years later and my fees would have been paid for by the government once again if I hadn't dropped out so soon. So now I owe like 500 quid because I anxietied myself out of there
They're chasing me up about it these says


We've got it pretty sweet in Scotland, for the time being
I could have a degree by now with only minimal cost-of-living loans and no need to pay back until I'm earning a decent salary
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Last edited by Hydra150 at Jul 26, 2016,
#17
Student loans are some of the best investments you can ever make. I mean, its for your education. It's not like you're taking out a loan so you can have a bouncy castle in your back yard. You're investing in yourself and your future.

And the people who work with student loan agencies will go out of their way to help you pay them off, more so than with most other types of loans. if you're having trouble, call them up and tell them about it and they'll help you find a way to pay them off.
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#18
I have had issues understanding the problem students have with the "evil government". An education is one of the single best investments a person can make in him/herself.

An education in a field of personal investment (beyond the "this would be fun to study for 4 years!" idea) net a fairly significant amount more income than a high school diploma holder. In googling, I'm seeing this range from 15% at year of graduation (considering the 4 years of compounding merit increases in the workforce the h.s. diploma holder acquires while the student studies) to nearly double. Citing an argument Dr. Gordon Patzer made regarding people that are physically attractive claiming 5% pay over less attractive counterparts - accruing approx $250k over the course of a lifetime, that 15% - when compounded - adds up.

Interest rates are fairly reasonable considering the loan isn't collateralized and individuals in the first 4 years of their 'life' generally don't have a credit history to speak of. (3.2%-4.5% between 2011 and 2015). While I'm still bleeding out low, reasonable amounts of cash for the education I acquired, the boost in understanding within my field of interest and my on-the-job utility have allowed me to display my value to my employer and cover those costs many times over.

The issue is that students are walking into an education without understanding what it is, how to use it, what its good for, the incurred cots, and how a loan works.

If memory suits - all that was covered in a Consumer Education class in high school when discussing the dangers of credit cards. In that moment, I didn't have one, I wasn't in trouble, I didn't care, and the knowledge was lost.

The fix for this will require students to actually give a damn about the material. Understand what the education will cost - per month- for the duration of their loan. Understand the total education cost both in gross and per month for the 10 and 20 year repayment periods. And more importantly research the position they're attempting to get a degree in. The laws of supply and demand apply here as much as they do elsewhere. If you're walking into a saturated field that brings little intrinsic value back to your employer or are utilizing state funding to aid a troubled class of individual - your paychecks aren't likely to be as robust as someone performing a dirty/dangerous job or someone applying themselves to solve problems that directly generate revenue.

Decide how you want to live, figure out if you're passionate about your pursuits, and make educational decisions accordingly.
Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance - Confucius
#19
It's kinda a double-edged sword for me.

On the one hand my degree has absolutely nothing to do with my job, nor is it ever really likely to do in the future (studied Music ), so by that logic you could say it was a waste of time/the debt wasn't worth it.

On the other hand, without at least some kind of degree (regardless of what it actually is), I don't think I'd have got my current job. So therefore it probably was worth it.

I'll be paying it off until I'm well into my late 30s no doubt, but then I also wouldn't be on even half the salary I am now without it. I guess in that regard though I'm probably in the minority of graduates that feel this way - I'd imagine most don't 'find their feet' so to speak until a few years later than me (I'm 25).
#20
Quote by matt bickerton
It's kinda a double-edged sword for me.

On the one hand my degree has absolutely nothing to do with my job, nor is it ever really likely to do in the future (studied Music ), so by that logic you could say it was a waste of time/the debt wasn't worth it.

On the other hand, without at least some kind of degree (regardless of what it actually is), I don't think I'd have got my current job. So therefore it probably was worth it.


Sunk cost, so it's not worth it to determine if it was worth it or not
.
Last edited by Fat Lard at Jul 26, 2016,
#21
I'm not too worried. Once I get done I should be making a decent salary
___

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#22
I survived off of crackers and water for two years after college while a paid back mine.
I think ppl make a mistake by going ahead and buying things their first post university job.
On the plus side, paying back school loans really shoots up your credit score fast.
#23
student loan debt is a big factor in me being unable to go back to school.

it's a stupid cycle.

can't afford to go back to school because high monthly payments, can't have my payments lowered to something reasonable because i can't afford to go back to school.

i make a completely useless attempt to see if they have any options for lowering my payments, but it's always

"well if you go back to school..."
"i can't afford it."
"well you can apply for another loan with us"

fuck

off
mugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmug
#24
In the hole for $30k because of my wife's undergrad and graduate degrees, hmu

The costs of tuition are absolutely ludicrous
My God, it's full of stars!
Last edited by Dreadnought at Jul 26, 2016,
#25
paying 9% of my net take-home in paying off student debt. not bad but it certainly makes it harder to save for downpayment+retirement considering the rental market is just completely terrible. and I'm one of the fortunate ones.
#26
Quote by Godsmack_IV
paying 9% of my net take-home in paying off student debt. not bad but it certainly makes it harder to save for downpayment+retirement considering the rental market is just completely terrible. and I'm one of the fortunate ones.


Aren't retirement savings outside of ROTH based IRA's and personal slush accounts handled as a Pre-Tax venture?

If not - slush the money whole-value into a 401k, reduce your net take home to reduce the loan dollars - achieve retirement goals - roll it into either a Roth or Traditional IRA upon leaving the company, I forget what step3 was, but 4 was certainly profit.


Unless of course the 9% isn't income adjusted - in which case, reduce spending, or increase income.

Quote by jakesmellspoo
student loan debt is a big factor in me being unable to go back to school.

it's a stupid cycle.

can't afford to go back to school because high monthly payments, can't have my payments lowered to something reasonable because i can't afford to go back to school.


I admittedly haven't fully researched this - but can't you tuck your loans back into deferment while hiding as a 1/2 time student? I was about a week late with a letter of recommendation and don't get to experience this joy until spring semester.
Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance - Confucius
Last edited by dPrimmy at Jul 26, 2016,
#27
Quote by dPrimmy
Aren't retirement savings outside of ROTH based IRA's and personal slush accounts handled as a Pre-Tax venture?

If not - slush the money whole-value into a 401k, reduce your net take home to reduce the loan dollars - achieve retirement goals - roll it into either a Roth or Traditional IRA upon leaving the company, I forget what step3 was, but 4 was certainly profit.


Unless of course the 9% isn't income adjusted - in which case, reduce spending, or increase income.


yea now that you mention it i'm reminded of all the tuition tax credits I'm rolling in and so why I'm not taking advantage of whichever one of those is the equivalent of an rrsp.

and definitely increase income at all possible junctures
#28
Quote by Godsmack_IV
yea now that you mention it i'm reminded of all the tuition tax credits I'm rolling in and so why I'm not taking advantage of whichever one of those is the equivalent of an rrsp.

and definitely increase income at all possible junctures


The power of compounding interest compels you!!!!

.....that, and the fear of not being able to pay the person wiping my ass when I'm no longer able.
Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance - Confucius
Last edited by dPrimmy at Jul 26, 2016,
#30
Quote by Godsmack_IV
still, the rent is too damn high

Won't hear me complain there.

1 bed out here is $9-1200 USD/mo for some place respectable. 2 bed is $1500-1800.
Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance - Confucius
#31
Only 41% of jobs require a bachelor's degree (or higher).

Disincentivize college. Eliminate large swaths of administrative positions which bloat tuition. Promote and fund community college, and heavily advertise jobs which require associates' degrees or trades/apprenticeships.

Less demand + less admin = lower price of admission

Let's make college at least slightly less of a joke than it currently and always will be.
#32
Quote by dPrimmy
Won't hear me complain there.

1 bed out here is $9-1200 USD/mo for some place respectable. 2 bed is $1500-1800.


go dink or go home
#33
Quote by Godsmack_IV
go dink or go home

....drinking at home. Best of both worlds

/Guilty.

Quote by beadhangingOne
Only 41% of jobs require a bachelor's degree (or higher).

Disincentivize college. Eliminate large swaths of administrative positions which bloat tuition. Promote and fund community college, and heavily advertise jobs which require associates' degrees or trades/apprenticeships.

Less demand + less admin = lower price of admission

Let's make college at least slightly less of a joke than it currently and always will be.


So - speaking from a business and a supervisory perspective here - Why would I want to reduce the 32 week accounting exposure requirement, significant group work requirement, fundamental math understanding, communications format and understanding, writing & research requirement, and problem solving skill set required by colleges? Granted - 1/2 the students in my classes were riding on the coat tails of stronger students - but that exposure vs. someone completely green? There' s a distinct advantage to having that 4 year experience.
Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance - Confucius
#34
my student debt makes me think fondly of death's embrace

edit: wait no i already did that
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Last edited by K33nbl4d3 at Jul 26, 2016,
#35
Quote by dPrimmy
I admittedly haven't fully researched this - but can't you tuck your loans back into deferment while hiding as a 1/2 time student? I was about a week late with a letter of recommendation and don't get to experience this joy until spring semester.
not with my shitty deal. i have to go back full time.
mugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmugmug
#37
Quote by dPrimmy
Aren't retirement savings outside of ROTH based IRA's and personal slush accounts handled as a Pre-Tax venture?

If not - slush the money whole-value into a 401k, reduce your net take home to reduce the loan dollars - achieve retirement goals - roll it into either a Roth or Traditional IRA upon leaving the company, I forget what step3 was, but 4 was certainly profit.


Not sure how it is in Canada, but US may have a 6% excise tax on excess contributions. Roth's are nondeductable, but the earnings from the contributions aren't taxed (following certain rules/etc).

~
~
~


Don't use anything in this post unless you refer to irs.gov and a licensed CPA:

Also good for anyone in the US to know that you can deduct up to $2,500 from your income (even if you take the standard deduction) for student loan interest payments (with 'phaseouts' and calculations from that 2,500 if you make over an income threshold)

And if you're considering/in school, you can deduct up to $4,000 from your taxes for qualified higher education expenses (tuition/etc).
.
Last edited by Fat Lard at Jul 26, 2016,
#38
I like you, dPrimmy. Someone on top of his shit.

With that said, I don't necessarily agree that college education is one of the best investments you can make. It can be a downright subpar investment, as is the case for many people. I admit I was introduced to the most critical "soft" skills in college which have benefited handsomely but it was a goddamn expensive couple of lessons. At the end of the day, it comes down to personal aptitude.

Many people I know who've gone to college have their hands out thinking it was some kind of agreed upon deal that they'd have a well paying job, and then they do nothing but bitch about low pay and capitalism on FB. Meanwhile a few others I know who didn't even go to college are self taught in their field, extremely proactive, and make 6 figures (at < 26 yo) with a great career ahead of them.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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Last edited by Xiaoxi at Jul 26, 2016,
#39
Quote by Godsmack_IV
LOL

on point

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#40
Quote by beadhangingOne
Only 41% of jobs require a bachelor's degree (or higher).

Disincentivize college. Eliminate large swaths of administrative positions which bloat tuition. Promote and fund community college, and heavily advertise jobs which require associates' degrees or trades/apprenticeships.

Less demand + less admin = lower price of admission

Let's make college at least slightly less of a joke than it currently and always will be.
Federally guaranteed loans that don't consider any roi on a person by person and field of study basis probably should go away as well.


"Every day I wonder how many things I am dead wrong about."
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