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#1
Howdy UG,

I own two electric guitars and I'm not sure which I should practice technique on:
  • Fender Telecaster Much easier to play (due to lower action and thinner strings)
  • Musicman Axis Copy What I perform with more often (because I like the tone)
On one hand, I think I can make more progress on the easier-to-play one, and those skills would transfer to the preferred-sounding one, on the other hand maybe I should focus on the one I play most of the time already.

What do you think?
Quote by rebelmidget
I do believe you just used Blink 182 and hard rock in the same sentence. It would seem you're rather confused.
I have a quote in my signature! And it makes fun of blink-182! I'm cool now!

[Obligatory link to my band's MySpace]
#2
Whichever guitar inspires you to play more and more easily points out your mistakes, because the more you're inspired to play, the more you'll play, and experience will improve you, and because whatever makes your mistakes more glaring will also force you to correct them and smooth out your technique.

“We’re built of contradictions, all of us. It’s those opposing forces that give us strength, like an arch, each block pressing the next. Give me a man whose parts are all aligned in agreement and I’ll show you madness. We walk a narrow path, insanity to each side. A man without contradictions to balance him will soon veer off.”



silentfall.bandcamp.com
#3
Quote by an.interloper
Whichever guitar inspires you to play more and more easily points out your mistakes, because the more you're inspired to play, the more you'll play, and experience will improve you, and because whatever makes your mistakes more glaring will also force you to correct them and smooth out your technique.


This is exactly correct. It's the reason why you should practice on an acoustic because your mistakes will be heard so much easier. Any note that you don't hit pretty much perfectly will be easy as all hell to spot making it what you should be practicing on when you're alone.
#4
No contest - practice with the guitar you use to perform. I would suggest getting it setupby a tech to improve the action. You gain little by practicing on other guitars, except the ability to play other guitars decently.

Also, playing acoustic does not make you a better electric player, there is some overlap in skill building but your time is MUCH better spent practicing electric because of intonation and touch - they are much more sensitive on electric.
Last edited by reverb66 at Aug 1, 2016,
#5
Quote by reverb66
Also, playing acoustic does not make you a better electric player, there is some overlap in skill building but your time is MUCH better spent practicing electric because of intonation and touch - they are much more sensitive on electric.


Yeah. I'm not sure who came up with the old myth that acoustic guitars show all the mistakes that you make on an electric, but I'm guessing that they have never played a high-gain electric with. Acoustic guitars are so much more forgiving in terms of things like excess noise from bad muting technique. Also if you play primarily electric, with their increased sustain and compression, hitting every note perfectly doesn't really matter as much and also electrics don't need such a heavy right hand as an acoustic which allows for shorter, softer pick strokes that creates superior economy of motion and therefore allows better speed and endurance than is possible on an acoustic.

Really when it gets down to it, they are really two very different instruments with tuning being the main thing in common. Outside of tuning, an acoustic guitar plays a lot more like a lute or oud (other than oud being fretless) with the same material strings than it plays like an electric.
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#6
Quote by theogonia777
Yeah. I'm not sure who came up with the old myth that acoustic guitars show all the mistakes that you make on an electric, but I'm guessing that they have never played a high-gain electric with. Acoustic guitars are so much more forgiving in terms of things like excess noise from bad muting technique. Also if you play primarily electric, with their increased sustain and compression, hitting every note perfectly doesn't really matter as much and also electrics don't need such a heavy right hand as an acoustic which allows for shorter, softer pick strokes that creates superior economy of motion and therefore allows better speed and endurance than is possible on an acoustic.

Really when it gets down to it, they are really two very different instruments with tuning being the main thing in common. Outside of tuning, an acoustic guitar plays a lot more like a lute or oud (other than oud being fretless) with the same material strings than it plays like an electric.


I agree completely with all that except maybe the endurance bit - it is what you get used to. I have never got used to playing electric, having come to it fairly late in my guitar playing life. With the benefit of hindsight,I think it would be a good idea to learn both from a fairly early stage.
Last edited by Tony Done at Aug 1, 2016,
#7
By endurance I mean like... you can't keep up fast alternate picking on an acoustic for as long as you could keep it up at the same speed on an electric since the acoustic requires harder, less economical strokes.
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#8
Quote by SLD.Potato
Howdy UG,

I own two electric guitars and I'm not sure which I should practice technique on:

On one hand, I think I can make more progress on the easier-to-play one, and those skills would transfer to the preferred-sounding one, on the other hand maybe I should focus on the one I play most of the time already.

What do you think?
Without any attempt to contradict anything any one else has said.. I always find players who are constantly playing lightly strung electrics, are always back here whimpering about needing, some mystical secret to be able to play barre chords.

Despite all talk of "light touch" and "economy on motion" in playing electric guitar, there still exists a strength component to playing the guitar.

Jimmy Page is a prime example. He played electrics, but when he went into the studio, and even on stage, he picked up and played acoustic 12 strings. They weren't "magical twelve strings" either. Just damned old common push like hell so the frets won't buzz, run of the mill 12 strings.

Perhaps some guitar heroes do only play light stringed electrics, and that's OK. But, if you want strength for maximum choices of instruments, you have to play and practice with instruments which require a heavier touch, along with your electric.
#9
Well, sure, but then you're into what your goals are, and they differ for every player. I mean, electric players could likely make the opposite argument to people who mainly play acoustic- "Don't play acoustic so much with really thick strings if you want to be able to pick up an electric and sound like a pro."
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#10
Quote by Dave_Mc
Well, sure, but then you're into what your goals are, and they differ for every player. I mean, electric players could likely make the opposite argument to people who mainly play acoustic- "Don't play acoustic so much with really thick strings if you want to be able to pick up an electric and sound like a pro."
Well, they not only can make that argument, but most likely will. Which after all, is pretty much what you're doing in sort of a "dry run context", isn't it?

With that said, my usual solution to whining for a "magic solution" to being able to do barre chords, is to practice them. Nine times out of ten, that doesn't really come across as "internet friendly". Primarily because some other joker has a "better solution", something on the order of, "drop the action to about .060 on the E-6 side, and try to find string sets with an .008 e-1".

I tried to outline the way many artists approach their craft. An interview with Pete Townshend I recall, had him saying, "I'm a really heavy player, so I was using .013's". But then you really shouldn't pay any attention to what a working pro might say or do, since a lot of people here seen to believe, "once you've got at least one Metallica cover down, the world will beat a path to your doorstep".

So, until one of the UG guitar wonders, hands me a spare ticket to their honors ceremony at the Kennedy Center, I'm going to stick with a proven methodology, such as Jimmy Page's, and anyone else can either take it FWIW, or ignore it.

Besides, half of the budding guitar heroes here, need a bass player to help them figure out whether they're playing a major or minor chord.
Last edited by Captaincranky at Aug 4, 2016,
#12
Quote by SpiderM
So why is he called Captain Cranky? ;-)
I'm not entirely sure myself. Although, it could be my slightly quirky writing style... I just sort of dip my middle finger into a jar of big words and fling them at the page....
Last edited by Captaincranky at Aug 5, 2016,
#13
Quote by Captaincranky
Well, they not only can make that argument, but most likely will. Which after all, is pretty much what you're doing in sort of a "dry run context", isn't it?

With that said, my usual solution to whining for a "magic solution" to being able to do barre chords, is to practice them. Nine times out of ten, that doesn't really come across as "internet friendly". Primarily because some other joker has a "better solution", something on the order of, "drop the action to about .060 on the E-6 side, and try to find string sets with an .008 e-1".

I tried to outline the way many artists approach their craft. An interview with Pete Townshend I recall, had him saying, "I'm a really heavy player, so I was using .013's". But then you really shouldn't pay any attention to what a working pro might say or do, since a lot of people here seen to believe, "once you've got at least one Metallica cover down, the world will beat a path to your doorstep".

So, until one of the UG guitar wonders, hands me a spare ticket to their honors ceremony at the Kennedy Center, I'm going to stick with a proven methodology, such as Jimmy Page's, and anyone else can either take it FWIW, or ignore it.

Besides, half of the budding guitar heroes here, need a bass player to help them figure out whether they're playing a major or minor chord.


well, again, sure, but different pros disagree. I mean, BB king talked billy gibbons into using light strings because, "why would you make it hard on yourself?"

plus the whole argument from authority is a fallacy...

i agree that practising will help, but at what point do you want a crutch and at what point are you deliberately, and unnecessarily, making it unduly difficult for yourself?
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#15
Quote by Tony Done
I play a lot of different kinds of guitar, both electric and acoustic, so I can adapt to almost anything quite quickly. On the face of it, this seems like a good idea to me, but it could just lead to a triumph of mediocrity. Any opinions on this?
Mediocrity sells!

Besides, we've both apparently missed the point where we could have made a stand on the issue. Sic: "I don't need no steenking guitarra, I'm joining a boy banda"!
Last edited by Captaincranky at Aug 5, 2016,
#16
Quote by Dave_Mc
...[ ]....i agree that practising will help, but at what point do you want a crutch and at what point are you deliberately, and unnecessarily, making it unduly difficult for yourself?
At the point between where you can do barre chords quietly on your own, <(--------------)> and you aren't back here whimpering that your guitar is buzzing and you don't understand why. It's a personal thing, borne out of personal incompetence.
Last edited by Captaincranky at Aug 5, 2016,
#17
Captaincranky

Sigh. Ain't that the truth, on both counts. I still get the occasional compliment, but it's only because I'm the only alternating-bass fingerpicker anyone has ever heard here in Toowoomba. I have no delusions about my abilities on a global basis, the information superhighway has banished that possibility. However, it helps to have an obscure (by our standards) specialist niche, less opportunity for unfavourable comparisons.
#18
Quote by Tony Done
....[ ]..... Sigh. Ain't that the truth, on both counts. I still get the occasional compliment, but it's only because I'm the only alternating-bass fingerpicker anyone has ever heard here in Toowoomba...[ ]....
You're not fooling me one bit about why you took up the guitar there in Toowoomba. Competition for first chair on the didgeridoo was simply too fierce.....
Last edited by Captaincranky at Aug 5, 2016,
#19
Captaincranky

The didge requires circular breathing, and I'm not sure I could get the hang of that. It isn't a rare instrument by any means, but it isn't that common either, sometimes played by street market buskers. I have seen it played "for real", not as a performance, in the NT. Freakin' drums are still the hippy option in these parts. In spite of my antipathy, I have to admit that they are good for group participation.
#20
Quote by Captaincranky
At the point between where you can do barre chords quietly on your own, <(--------------)> and you aren't back here whimpering that your guitar is buzzing and you don't understand why. It's a personal thing, borne out of personal incompetence.


lol
Quote by Tony Done
I play a lot of different kinds of guitar, both electric and acoustic, so I can adapt to almost anything quite quickly. On the face of it, this seems like a good idea to me, but it could just lead to a triumph of mediocrity. Any opinions on this?


depends on the person, i guess. some people spread themselves too thin, but then some other people are great at multiple styles.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#21
Quote by Tony Done
CaptaincrankyI'm the only alternating-bass fingerpicker anyone has ever heard here in Toowoomba. I have no delusions about my abilities on a global basis, the information superhighway has banished that possibility. However, it helps to have an obscure (by our standards) specialist niche, less opportunity for unfavourable comparisons.


In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king!
#22
Quote by Captaincranky
An interview with Pete Townshend I recall, had him saying, "I'm a really heavy player, so I was using .013's". But then you really shouldn't pay any attention to what a working pro might say or do,


I mean he's also not what most would consider a particularly great player but rather a guy that happens to be the guitar player of a famous band. Meanwhile pretty all of the world class session players in Nashville and all of the shred guitar heroes are playing 9s and 10s.

You can't say that just because one successful guy did it one way that that means anything since there plenty of other successful guys that didn't.
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#23
Quote by theogonia777
I mean he's also not what most would consider a particularly great player but rather a guy that happens to be the guitar player of a famous band. Meanwhile pretty all of the world class session players in Nashville and all of the shred guitar heroes are playing 9s and 10s.
Well .010's are what I string electrics with.

Besides, Townshend is a great rhythm guitarist. I've never considered him to be good at shredding. But, he does epitomize the concept that someone can lead the highest paid working band in Europe, (at one time), with a decent skill set, and have something to say, which people are willing to pay you a crap load of money to hear.

"I wanna wank on scales like Malwie", is only going to take so many people so far. And in some cases, give you tendonitis and/or carpal tunnel syndrome..

Quote by theogonia777
You can't say that just because one successful guy did it one way that that means anything since there plenty of other successful guys that didn't.
Nor was I suggesting any such thing. I'm still sticking with my story that you can help yourself with strength and stamina by playing acoustics with acoustic strings on them, and still practice touch with a lighter strung electric.

Now, if you insist on stringing with .009's, and still insist on coming to any guitar forum looking for the "magic internet solution for effortless barre chords", your time woiuld be better spent simply shutting your yap, and practicing.
Last edited by Captaincranky at Aug 7, 2016,
#24
CaptainconfusedPlaying acoustic guitars with acoustic is still not going to help you play electric as well as practicing on electric strings. And I'm not sure why you would even mention something if you weren't trying to say anything with it.
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#25
Quote by theogonia777
CaptainconfusedPlaying acoustic guitars with acoustic is still not going to help you play electric as well as practicing on electric strings. And I'm not sure why you would even mention something if you weren't trying to say anything with it.
I thought it was obvious, I was trying to say there is more than one path, with many different string gauges to rock and roll stardom.

Also, did you ever watch a baseball player slip a "donut" over the end of his bat? That's a weight. They warm up with it. When they take it off the bat feels lighter, and they can swing it faster. It's much the same with guitar playing, If I put down a 12 string, I can play a 6 string faster. Then, when I put the 6 string down, I can play my electric even faster still.

With those things being said, I can play barre chords on any of the 3 instruments, whenever the mood or need strikes. Accordingly, I'm just here for the argument, same as you.

EDIT: Just for the record, those, "Nashville session players" you're talking about, often sit in with many instruments in addition to the electric guitar.
Last edited by Captaincranky at Aug 7, 2016,
#26
^ well

(a) that's a sport, and music isn't- i'm not saying it's definitely not analogous, but it's not guaranteed

(b) the baseball player is doing that during a game, right? so he/she can't practise the way he/she would prefer (i.e. with someone pitching to him or with a pitching machine or whatever), he/she is just doing the best in the situation. that's not true with guitar, you can just practise the guitar.

(c) i definitely do find electric feels a bit easier if i come to it after playing acoustic or bass, but that feeling is kind of fleeting- you have to keep playing the other one for the effect to last, and i'd be interested to see if that causes as much improvement as just spending all that extra time playing electric instead. assuming being good at electric is the main aim, of course- if you want to play all 3 then play all 3.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#27
Quote by Dave_Mc
^ well

(a) that's a sport, and music isn't- i'm not saying it's definitely not analogous, but it's not guaranteed.
Pretty much any repetitive behaviour could be classified as "exercise". And while the human musculature does have certain amount of innate strength, (based on size, sex, and to a lesser extent hair color (?)), anybody came improve upon those "god given" traits, with exercise. Playing the guitar requires what could only be described a series of very unnatural movements. Hence, genetic strength (IMO), counts for less in activities the particular "being" would not normally engage in during the individual's daily life.

Since acquired strength and muscle memory seem to be two "different" non-associated qualities according to some people in this forum, I suggest stringing your acoustic backwards and relearning to play it that way, right hand on the neck, left hand on the strings. Make sure you try barre chords first, since they should be the easiest of all.

Way back in prehistoric times, when people actually, (perish the thought), plugged in and played cleanly, 010's, even .011's or .012's were pretty much mandatory to get decent tone.

In fact, my guitar instructor, (a music major), told me he kept 2 (two) electric guitars with him on gigs. One was strung with .010's, the other with .009's, "for when I feel like bending some strings.

Quote by Dave_Mc
(b) the baseball player is doing that during a game, right? so he/she can't practise the way he/she would prefer (i.e. with someone pitching to him or with a pitching machine or whatever), he/she is just doing the best in the situation. that's not true with guitar, you can just practise the guitar.
Aw Dave, are you letting your innate intellect slip to the point where you simply can't understand a "rough analogy", or are you merely playing stupid?

Quote by Dave_Mc
(c) i definitely do find electric feels a bit easier if i come to it after playing acoustic or bass, but that feeling is kind of fleeting- you have to keep playing the other one for the effect to last, and i'd be interested to see if that causes as much improvement as just spending all that extra time playing electric instead. assuming being good at electric is the main aim, of course- if you want to play all 3 then play all 3.
Can you imagine what would happen if every person who picked up the guitar became a star? Neither can I, but I'd think we'd all need earplugs in short order. That being said, everyone would of course be "lead guitar", thus eliminating the need for barre chords once and for all. Talk about utopia! No one would ever have to answer, "do I need to learn how to carry a rhythm", ever again. All guitars would be strung with .008's, permitting even those with mild cases of cerebral palsy or Parkinson's to be the guitar hero of their dreams. I'm sure the public would get used to some a**hole wanking on scales as fast as was humanly possible. After all, they've pretty much gotten used to every other shit trend the music "industry", has visited upon them.

So as near as I can determine after enduring the comments of "everybody who's nobody" here at UG, any of the stars of the past, were idiots who simply couldn't play or write a song which wasn't bubblegum. Also, being able to play more than one type of guitar is a dead art. (You can just pay somebody else to do it for you).





Last edited by Captaincranky at Aug 8, 2016,
#28
Arguably, exercising the development of technical capability on all fretted instruments.... Will improve you ability to play fretted instruments

I. E practicing sweep and economy picking on my ukulele translated to increased capability on my steel string acoustics which translated to more fluidity/ economy of motion with my electrics.

To answer the OP:

Play all the guitars, walk into music stores and play with their toys.. Give your guitars equal love. Practice harder things (maintaining strict good habits!!!) on shitty guitars and let it translate positively to nicer ones
Legato and fluidity in your playing is where it's at

DJENT!!
ಠ_ಠ
#29
Quote by Captaincranky
(a) Pretty much any repetitive behaviour could be classified as "exercise". And while the human musculature does have certain amount of innate strength, (based on size, sex, and to a lesser extent hair color (?)), anybody came improve upon those "god given" traits, with exercise. Playing the guitar requires what could only be described a series of very unnatural movements. Hence, genetic strength (IMO), counts for less in activities the particular "being" would not normally engage in during the individual's daily life.

Since acquired strength and muscle memory seem to be two "different" non-associated qualities according to some people in this forum, I suggest stringing your acoustic backwards and relearning to play it that way, right hand on the neck, left hand on the strings. Make sure you try barre chords first, since they should be the easiest of all.

Way back in prehistoric times, when people actually, (perish the thought), plugged in and played cleanly, 010's, even .011's or .012's were pretty much mandatory to get decent tone.

In fact, my guitar instructor, (a music major), told me he kept 2 (two) electric guitars with him on gigs. One was strung with .010's, the other with .009's, "for when I feel like bending some strings.

(b) Aw Dave, are you letting your innate intellect slip to the point where you simply can't understand a "rough analogy", or are you merely playing stupid?

Can you imagine what would happen if every person who picked up the guitar became a star? Neither can I, but I'd think we'd all need earplugs in short order. That being said, everyone would of course be "lead guitar", thus eliminating the need for barre chords once and for all. Talk about utopia! No one would ever have to answer, "do I need to learn how to carry a rhythm", ever again. All guitars would be strung with .008's, permitting even those with mild cases of cerebral palsy or Parkinson's to be the guitar hero of their dreams. I'm sure the public would get used to some a**hole wanking on scales as fast as was humanly possible. After all, they've pretty much gotten used to every other shit trend the music "industry", has visited upon them.

So as near as I can determine after enduring the comments of "everybody who's nobody" here at UG, any of the stars of the past, were idiots who simply couldn't play or write a song which wasn't bubblegum. Also, being able to play more than one type of guitar is a dead art. (You can just pay somebody else to do it for you).







(a) I wasn't trying to suggest that practice didn't help. I was suggesting that very specific practice techniques, which might work for sport (and which I dare say not everyone even in sport necessarily agrees with) might not necessarily work for guitar. That's all. For example, I find that if I play acoustic or bass *too much*, it doesn't actually improve my electric playing, it doesn't make electric feel "easier", it actually just starts to feel weird and unfamiliar.

(b) I was being serious

(c) Now who's being deliberately obtuse? Electric guitar doesn't solely exist to play solos on, not everyone who struggles with 12s on an acoustic necessarily needs 8s on electric, and thicker strings don't (IMO) necessarily sound better on an electric, they sound different and if you only need to play electric you don't need the extra strength for acoustic. I've been to plenty of gigs where there wasn't an acoustic in sight.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#30
Quote by Dave_Mc
(a) I wasn't trying to suggest that practice didn't help. I was suggesting that very specific practice techniques, which might work for sport (and which I dare say not everyone even in sport necessarily agrees with) might not necessarily work for guitar. That's all. For example, I find that if I play acoustic or bass *too much*, it doesn't actually improve my electric playing, it doesn't make electric feel "easier", it actually just starts to feel weird and unfamiliar.
I can't recall suggesting that you play it "too much". If you find me saying that someplace, please point it out to me. Besides, next to the drummer, the bass player is usually the most ripped guy in the band. IDK though, maybe they all go to "Planet Fitness"on their days off.

Not to mention the fact I didn't suggest playing the bass was even worthwhile for a guitarist. You did.

Quote by Dave_Mc
(b) I was being serious
Oh well..

Quote by Dave_Mc
(c) Now who's being deliberately obtuse? Electric guitar doesn't solely exist to play solos on, not everyone who struggles with 12s on an acoustic necessarily needs 8s on electric, and thicker strings don't (IMO) necessarily sound better on an electric, they sound different and if you only need to play electric you don't need the extra strength for acoustic.
This is a simple concept, if you "exercise" above where you need the strength for an activity, that activity will be easier. For me it simply isn't worth the trouble to post string gauges, as illustrated by the nonsense with the bass. Any comparison with that instrument is sort of meaningless.

Now, I've been provided with plenty of obtuse rebuttals in this thread, and like threads before it. Consider it "payback".

Quote by Dave_Mc
I've been to plenty of gigs where there wasn't an acoustic in sight.
How unfortunate. Because even Springsteen's guitarist plays the rhythm to "Independence Day", on a twelve. You don't know you're missing.

It never really seemed to hamper Al Di Meola's guitar playing to switch back and forth between the Les Paul and his classical and acoustic guitars. Maybe it was all a fraud. You know, like the Ovations were strung lighter than the Les, and the classicals had really skinny necks, so that the Ovation necks felt wide by comparison.

BTW, speaking of obtuse, is it really necessary to quote the videos I posted in a response? Or is it just laziness, simply not taking the time to strike those addresses? Or are you trying to make my point for me?

In response to the OP/TS, even if you have 2 identical guitars, I'd set them up as close as possible, string one with .010's, and one with .009's, then do most of my practice with the one with the 010's.

Is that OK with you Dave? After all, I'm not suggesting that our TS take up the upright bass to make him stronger on guitar.
Last edited by Captaincranky at Aug 9, 2016,
#31
Quote by Captaincranky
(a) I can't recall suggesting that you play it "too much". If you find me saying that someplace, please point it out to me. Besides, next to the drummer, the bass player is usually the most ripped guy in the band. IDK though, maybe they all go to "Planet Fitness"on their days off.

Not to mention the fact I didn't suggest playing the bass was even worthwhile for a guitarist. You did.

(b) Oh well..

(c) This is a simple concept, if you "exercise" above where you need the strength for an activity, that activity will be easier. For me it simply isn't worth the trouble to post string gauges, as illustrated by the nonsense with the bass. Any comparison with that instrument is sort of meaningless.

(d) Now, I've been provided with plenty of obtuse rebuttals in this thread, and like threads before it. Consider it "payback".

How unfortunate. Because even Springsteen's guitarist plays the rhythm to "Independence Day", on a twelve. You don't know you're missing.

It never really seemed to hamper Al Di Meola's guitar playing to switch back and forth between the Les Paul and his classical and acoustic guitars. Maybe it was all a fraud. You know, like the Ovations were strung lighter than the Les, and the classicals had really skinny necks, so that the Ovation necks felt wide by comparison.

(e) BTW, speaking of obtuse, is it really necessary to quote the videos I posted in a response? Or is it just laziness, simply not taking the time to strike those addresses? Or are you trying to make my point for me?

In response to the OP/TS, even if you have 2 identical guitars, I'd set them up as close as possible, string one with .010's, and one with .009's, then do most of my practice with the one with the 010's.

Is that OK with you Dave? After all, I'm not suggesting that our TS take up the upright bass to make him stronger on guitar.


(a) My point was that you sometimes don't know it's too much until it's too late

I just mentioned the bass because it's a similar idea. You can take the bass out of what I said and it still is effectively the same point.

(b)

(c) Well, again we're back to my point about its maybe not being completely analogous to a sport. A lot of (electric) players (not me) who actually prefer heavier gauge strings often complain when they're forced to play an electric with light gauge strings, because they overbend etc.. Their muscle memory is used to the heavier strings. In their case using heavier strings actually messes up their ability to play with lighter ones. Which gets back to my point about "too much"...

(d) payback for what?

(e) laziness
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#32
1) playing electric will make you better at playing electric faster than practicing acoustic or classical.
2) practicing guitar ( any type) is better than not playing at all.
3) players can be good or great a different guitars- that isn't new. I play electric, Classical and acoustic - I consider them all different instruments in certain respects, though there is a ton of overlap. Show me someone who is great at playing any one of those instruments and I guarantee they've spent a lot of time practicing with that particular type of guitar. Nashville session players and David Gilmour didn't just pick up an acoustic two hours before a session - they've been playing them their entire lives.
4) the sports analogy is problematic when you're specifically referring to practicing acoustic guitar to get better "strenght" on electric - mostly because the electric,when stringed normal gauges ( 9's or 10's) requires finesse more than strength - I can spot an acoustic guitar player on electric from a mile away because they have no idea how to fret the notes properly - they always press too hard and their intonation is all over the place - "the art of playing electric guitar is the art of playing in tune" - you can take that quote to the bank! Acoustics are much too forgiving when it comes to that so you can develop bad habits.
6) Playing different types of guitars is great fun and I encourage anyone to do it. It opens doors creatively.
#33
Quote by reverb66
3) players can be good or great a different guitars- that isn't new. I play electric, Classical and acoustic - I consider them all different instruments in certain respects, though there is a ton of overlap. Show me someone who is great at playing any one of those instruments and I guarantee they've spent a lot of time practicing with that particular type of guitar. Nashville session players and David Gilmour didn't just pick up an acoustic two hours before a session - they've been playing them their entire lives.
Nor did anyone suggest they did (At least I didn't) They still, need greater hand strength to play the twelve, or even the steel string flat top. So, my point overall is, you won't gain the strength necessary to do so, diddling around on an electric strung with .009's.

Now, I truly have listened to enough shitposts about how, "I have trouble with barre chords",. Then when you ask, the guitar is already strung as light as possible already.. That's a problem which really can't be solved by asking questions on the internet. And I am a bit weary of enduring the fantasy that it can.
Quote by reverb66
4)I can spot an acoustic guitar player on electric from a mile away because they have no idea how to fret the notes properly - they always press too hard and their intonation is all over the place - "the art of playing electric guitar is the art of playing in tune" - you can take that quote to the bank! Acoustics are much too forgiving when it comes to that so you can develop bad habits.
This is where you have to be a bit prudent with "stream of consciousness" posting. It opens doors creatively. Were your statement true in a blanket sense, someone else should be able to pick out you as an acoustic player, "from a mile away".

No, I couldn't? Then I'm going to stick with my concept that you have to have the hand strength present in the first place, and then you have to learn to control it.
Last edited by Captaincranky at Aug 11, 2016,
#34
when i tried to transition from my first guitar to my second (which, among other differences, was a seven-string), it forced me to reevaluate my technique. and for the better, i think. i had settled too comfortably into the little details of my first guitar, such as the thin neck and the body's particular curve at the picking arm, that i was using them as a crutch for subpar technique. so i think practicing a bit on both would be beneficial.
Quote by archerygenious
Jesus Christ since when is the Pit a ****ing courtroom...

Like melodic, black, death, symphonic, and/or avant-garde metal? Want to collaborate? Message me!
#35
Quote by Captaincranky
(a) Nor did anyone suggest they did (At least I didn't) They still, need greater hand strength to play the twelve, or even the steel string flat top. So, my point overall is, you won't gain the strength necessary to do so, diddling around on an electric strung with .009's.

(b) Now, I truly have listened to enough shitposts about how, "I have trouble with barre chords",. Then when you ask, the guitar is already strung as light as possible already.. That's a problem which really can't be solved by asking questions on the internet. And I am a bit weary of enduring the fantasy that it can.
This is where you have to be a bit prudent with "stream of consciousness" posting. It opens doors creatively. (c) Were your statement true in a blanket sense, someone else should be able to pick out you as an acoustic player, "from a mile away".

No, I couldn't? (d) Then I'm going to stick with my concept that you have to have the hand strength present in the first place, and then you have to learn to control it.


(a) well fair enough, but the OP never mentioned acoustic guitars at all. the OP is talking about electric guitars. You're effectively telling someone who only rides motorbikes that he/she will never get his/her pedalling endurance up to an appropriate standard if he/she doesn't ride a bicycle more often

(b) again, the OP never mentioned barre chords. He/she hasn't even come back since the OP (not that I blame him/her).

(c) It probably goes both ways, to be fair- an acoustic specialist could most likely pick out an electric player who's playing an acoustic, and the same probably goes the other way. Unless you deliberately spend the same amount of time on each, and started both at the same time, you're probably going to prefer one or the other and be more at home on one or the other. Even if you do spend the same amount of time you may well be more comfortable on one or the other.

(d) well, i suppose having it and being able to control it is the ideal, but at the same time if you don't need it, you could argue that acquiring that strength is maybe time that might be better spent on something you do need. and if you change your mind later and decide you want to learn acoustic, you can cross that bridge when you come to it.

i agree with reverb66, basically.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#36
Quote by Dave_Mc
(a) well fair enough, but the OP never mentioned acoustic guitars at all. the OP is talking about electric guitars. You're effectively telling someone who only rides motorbikes that he/she will never get his/her pedalling endurance up to an appropriate standard if he/she doesn't ride a bicycle more often
Well, I should have stated my first response, "I don't think practicing on the easiest one of the two would be the best option", and left it at that.

Quote by Dave_Mc
(b) again, the OP never mentioned barre chords. He/she hasn't even come back since the OP (not that I blame him/her).
It does tie into the same issue of strength. I honestly believe most experienced players, particularly those who do migrate to different types of guitars, have more grip strength than they realize. Grip strength which isn't inherent to a beginner.

Quote by Dave_Mc
(c) It probably goes both ways, to be fair- an acoustic specialist could most likely pick out an electric player who's playing an acoustic, and the same probably goes the other way. Unless you deliberately spend the same amount of time on each, and started both at the same time, you're probably going to prefer one or the other and be more at home on one or the other. Even if you do spend the same amount of time you may well be more comfortable on one or the other.
A great many successful players, are "multi-instrumentalists", (they play many different types of guitars, that is). The upshot there is, when I experience a barrage of nonsense how one type of guitar ruins your touch for another, by somebody who won't be giving me a courtesy ticket to their induction to the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, the skeptical part of my nature kicks into high gear.

I will grant you, the most ironic part of guitar music, is you need the lightest touch to play the heaviest metal. I noticed someone else was bellyaching about that very topic, and using to bash acoustic play.

To continue the irony, Emmpu "whatshisname" from Nightwish, has some of the most eloquent nylon string stuff on their first album. They're basically pretty damned metallic, and he obviously can transfer his skills at will. BTW, their bass player, Marco Heitala, also does a fair job on the acoustic as well.

Then of course there's always Alex Lifeson from Rush to consider. He does some very "dainty things" with gut strings as well.

I could go on but really, what would be the point?

Quote by Dave_Mc
(d) well, i suppose having it and being able to control it is the ideal, but at the same time if you don't need it, you could argue that acquiring that strength is maybe time that might be better spent on something you do need. and if you change your mind later and decide you want to learn acoustic, you can cross that bridge when you come to it.
Actually, if you play bass and whatnot, you already have the strength, you just like to argue as much as I do.

Quote by Dave_Mc
i agree with reverb66, basically.
You and Reverb, lockstep, got it.

Now let's see, who else transferred their considerable skills between different types of string instruments: George Harrison, Brian Jones, Jimmy Page, David Gilmour, Ian Anderson, (flute & tinkly acoustic guitar), Al Di Meola, and so forth. I'll grant you they were probably less comfortable on some guitars than others, but one supposes they had plenty of time to worry about it on their way to the bank.
Last edited by Captaincranky at Aug 11, 2016,
#37
Quote by Captaincranky
(a) Well, I should have stated my first response, "I don't think practicing on the easiest one of the two would be the best option", and left it at that.

(b) It does tie into the same issue of strength. I honestly believe most experienced players, particularly those who do migrate to different types of guitars, have more grip strength than they realize. Grip strength which isn't inherent to a beginner.

(c) A great many successful players, are "multi-instrumentalists", (they play many different types of guitars, that is). The upshot there is, when I experience a barrage of nonsense how one type of guitar ruins your touch for another, by somebody who won't be giving me a courtesy ticket to their induction to the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, the skeptical part of my nature kicks into high gear.

(d) I will grant you, the most ironic part of guitar music, is you need the lightest touch to play the heaviest metal. I noticed someone else was bellyaching about that very topic, and using to bash acoustic play.

(e) To continue the irony, Emmpu "whatshisname" from Nightwish, has some of the most eloquent nylon string stuff on their first album. They're basically pretty damned metallic, and he obviously can transfer his skills at will. BTW, their bass player, Marco Heitala, also does a fair job on the acoustic as well.

Then of course there's always Alex Lifeson from Rush to consider. He does some very "dainty things" with gut strings as well.

I could go on but really, what would be the point?

(f) Actually, if you play bass and whatnot, you already have the strength, you just like to argue as much as I do.

(g) Yuo and Reverb, lockstep, got it.


(a) Yep. I'm actually not sure where I stand- I suspect it depends on the player in question. Some people will get more benefit from practising on the more difficult one, while some might get more benefit from practising on the one they like more.

It'd also be worth figuring out why he finds the more difficult one more difficult to play- is it a setup issue? Does he/she just not like the neck profile (or other specs) as much? Etc. etc.. Most players have a preferred type of guitar and/or neck profile and forcing yourself to play on something you don't like might be a waste of time if you can just use something you like more. Of course, as you're saying, it could also be because of user error, and that's worth figuring out, too. As I said a while back, it's deciding where it's a crutch and where it isn't.

(b) yep absolutely

(c) agreed, and I'm the same. it also annoys me to hear people pontificating about stuff they (probably) know nothing about.

of course, the other thing you have to be careful with is putting too much stock in what authorities say- getting famous for guitar playing is such a rare event that there might not be any surefire way of getting there, a lot of it probably relies on luck etc..Just because player A got famous doesn't mean his way will ensure anyone else will.

(d) haha yeah

(e) Absolutely, and I'm not saying that they can't transfer- obviously a lot of players play both. But quite a few other players specialise- I'm not saying, "Don't learn acoustic if you play electric because it'll mess up your electric playing!", I'm saying, "If you only play electric and only want to play electric, I'm not sure taking up acoustic, because you feel you have to, will provide that many benefits to your playing." That's all.

And yeah I'm not sure there's much point in posting examples, if you look hard enough you can find examples which prove your point. I know paul gilbert said in a video that he's very much an electric guitar player- he can strum an acoustic, of course, but he's very much electric-orientated.

Apart from anything else it only matters if you find what works for you, it doesn't matter what works for someone else

(f) Yep pretty much I'm not arguing for the sake of it, though, I just don't like putting people off by telling them they just need to grin and bear it and get more strength when that might not strictly be necessary.

(g)

I actually disagree with reverb66 quite frequently
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#38
I personally use really cheap guitars so if you can play great on a cheap guitar, you can play great on a Les Paul or something.
Welcome to the Internet ladies and gentleman
#39
I have evaluated all of your responses and decided to ditch both guitars for a didgeridoo. Thanks everybody!
#40
SLD.Potato

Fuck that get a Bouzouki and a lute bro. It's like a direct translation
Legato and fluidity in your playing is where it's at

DJENT!!
ಠ_ಠ
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