#1
sooooo. here it goes.

i just got my martin (with a fishman preamp), and i want to know the best way to make it louder.

i have tried it in several of my 'clean' amps, it is decent in either of my musicman's in the high gain inputs, didn't like the rivera, etc.

this is the first time i have been enjoying playing acoustics in a long time, i always just mic'd them before for recording, or put a soundhole pickup in and go into the PA or whatever.

i would rather not buy anything to do this, and i can live just going through my musicmans, but i am curious to see what you all do here.

i also don't want to get an acoustic amp, never liked that idea.

so what are some good options?

also what do you guys use to record?
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



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Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
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#2
Quote by trashedlostfdup
i have tried it in several of my 'clean' amps, it is decent in either of my musicman's in the high gain inputs, didn't like the rivera, etc.
This brings on the thought provoking comment,,,,WTF? Why you would need an AE guitar plugged into a high gain inp0ut is honestly beyond my sphere of experiences. Usually, all you have to do is little more than crack the volume control on those inputs. to bring forth almost uncontrollable feedback. I admit though, I do sit right next to my amp. Still, I'd check and see if the battery is dead. It really shouldn't be like that. But here again, your definition of loud may differ from mine.

Quote by trashedlostfdup
this is the first time i have been enjoying playing acoustics in a long time, i always just mic'd them before for recording, or put a soundhole pickup in and go into the PA or whatever.
going right to the PA iis pretty much SOP for piezos as well. Recording I don't do, but that's going to be a matter of personal taste. Some people complain piezos "quack". They mic. I think that depends on how much high end you're trying to get out of a piezo. Dial the top end back some, and they sound pretty natural. (At least to me).

Quote by trashedlostfdup
i also don't want to get an acoustic amp, never liked that idea.
You're missing the point of an acoustic amp. When you start to think of them as portable PA systems, for guitar, mic, and perhaps another instrument, they begin to make a lot more sense. Think open mic, bring your own stuff, or a solo gig. Carvin makes some nice ones, but I'm not going to link them for you. You ruined the surprise..

Quote by trashedlostfdup
also what do you guys use to record?
My singing deserves to RIP out of earshot, not be preserved for posterity Thus, I can't help you with this one.
#3
I like the smooth tones of an acoustic through an electric guitar amp. I gigged with my acoustics through a Peavey Classic 30 and later a Fender Blues Deluxe, using piezo/preamp and/or a magnetic, no problem. I wasn't responsible for sound, but I think my playing partner mic'ed the amp and also took a line out direct to the mixing desk from the FX send. - I really just used the amp as my monitor so that I could hear what I liked rather than what the soundman thought I should hear through the foldback.
#4
For acoustic guitar, the cheapest and most effective amplification solution is plugging it directly into a PA system via a Di-box. This solution is the best if you play acoustic guitar in a band and do some bigger shows. However, if you want to use it on a small one man gigs buying an acousting amp will be very convinient. I have Marshall AS50 - it is great. Two guitar channels, one XLR input, Effects loop for only 200-300$. Then if you want to send the amp signal into a bigger PA system it has a balanced Di-box output a line output or you can simply use a mic. The best thing of this amp is that you can plug in your guitar and a microphone simultaneously to the seperate channels. It is also very good for recording, however to to correctly record acoustic guitar it is common to use 2 mics - one pointed to the 12th fret and one pointed to the body of the guitar. I also use the combination of mic pointed to 12th fret and the signal from the Marshall AS50 amp (balanced aoutput) or even directly from the guitar plugged directly into an audio interface.
#5
thanks so far!

Captaincranky- the high gain input is the lower output of the two on that channel. i am not using any gain on the amp.i also didn't think of the acoustic amps like that, i can see a use, but probably won't be buying one.

Tony Done thanks. maybe i will just use the musicmans.

sierzputowskipiotr thanks on all accounts.

_____

here is a dumb question, what is the piezo/preamp actually intended to do? straight into an amp, or into the PA?
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#7
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#9
OK well, here's a review of that Fender amp. Don't let's this guy's douche factor put you off, the amp and guitar both suck equally as bad.



Here's why, I don't like any amp for guitar which doesn't have a 12" speaker. There's too much low frequency roll off with the smaller speakers, (6" & 8") that makers seem to have a habit of stuffing into acoustic amps. Especially in light of the fact that playing without a bass player, you can play a bass lick or 3 on the lower strings.

This is my "I'd be wiling to try one of those" acoustic amps: http://carvinaudio.com/collections/acoustic-series/products/ag100d#ptab-specs.

Here's the rest of the line: http://carvinaudio.com/collections/acoustic-series


I'm using a 60 watt 1 x 12" Berhinger. (Discontinued), I bought fo 90 bucks at M'sF. While I've seen it described as , "the worst electric amp ever made (*), the clean channel is glorious. It put the fun back into playing my 12 strings, which do nothing if not honk and annoy the shit out of me, when plugged into either of my 2 Vypyr (smallest 8" models), of my Peavey eCoustic 208, which is a honky, noisy ass, POS I'd like to send back.(Although I might try it with a vocal processor, since the Berhinger only has one input and channel switch).

I EQ funny playing at low volumes with the twelves, with the bass almost pegged on the guitar and amp, and the trebles rolled way off. Your results may vary.

(*) The "overdrive" channel of the Berhinger is indeed wretched.....to the point of
Last edited by Captaincranky at Aug 2, 2016,
#10
Captaincranky

I think one's attitude to (acoustic in this case) amps depends on what you are looking for. I always preferred the somewhat smoother tones of an electric guitar amp with a big speaker to the more hi-fi like tones of an acoustic amp, and I can see that the latter could be too much of a good thing with a 12-string. However, there are those who are looking for a fair representation of their guitar's acoustic sound (I never was), and I'm guessing that an acoustic amp would be better for that - but it can lead to a bad case of "Taki jangle" in the wrong hands.

I'm fairly open minded about speaker sizes. A lot of the Markbass bass cabs use comparatively small speakers - 10" - but the voice coils are huge. The Roland Cube Micro bass uses 4*4" speakers, and I was impressed with both. - Very "tight"sounding. OTOH, one of the best " bright" electric guitar amps I've tried was my mate's Peavey Delta Blues in 1*15".

These opinions come gratis. Speaking of which I got about $30 worth of free sushi last Sunday arvo. We got to the sushi bar just as it was closing, but I pulled a long face and he asked me what I wanted. I made my choice, fully expecting to pay for it, but he said the till was closed, and just to take it away.
#11
Quote by Tony Done
Captaincranky

I think one's attitude to (acoustic in this case) amps depends on what you are looking for. I always preferred the somewhat smoother tones of an electric guitar amp with a big speaker to the more hi-fi like tones of an acoustic amp, and I can see that the latter could be too much of a good thing with a 12-string. However, there are those who are looking for a fair representation of their guitar's acoustic sound (I never was), and I'm guessing that an acoustic amp would be better for that - but it can lead to a bad case of "Taki jangle" in the wrong hands.

I'm fairly open minded about speaker sizes. A lot of the Markbass bass cabs use comparatively small speakers - 10" - but the voice coils are huge. The Roland Cube Micro bass uses 4*4" speakers, and I was impressed with both. - Very "tight"sounding. OTOH, one of the best " bright" electric guitar amps I've tried was my mate's Peavey Delta Blues in 1*15".
I'm not exactly sure why you're taken this opportunity to preach to the choir.

As I pointed out, I'm happiest with my Berhinger, which IS an electric guitar amp, single 12" speaker > NO tweeter! The distortion channel stinks to high heaven, and consequently, I don't use it as an electric amp. It would be too f***ing loud for my small house in that mode anyway. It's solid state so the clean channel is indeed, "clean". And as I further said, at low volumes, I push the bass to the stop, and cut the treble to almost off.

I can't recommend the amp outright, since it's discontinued. Besides, the last time I did so, you pointed out the amp "doesn't have any acoustic features". The last time I recommended it, I did the same thing after that comment, and pointed the TS toward the more PA-esque Carvin as well. At which time I received a bunch of grief from someone else, suggesting it would be better to buy a bonafide PA, in lieu of the Carvin.

Now, the Peavey "eCoustic 208" I have is shit, and it's especially at its shittiest with a 12 string. Instead of tweeters, it has whizzer cones on the speakers. Thus, when you sit beside it, a twe string lve sounds like someone talking with a clothespin on their nose. UNBEARABLE. Along with that huge fault, the highly touted "spring reverb", doesn't sound anything remotely like Fender's glorious incarnation of such things, and the amp's S/N ratio is 40Db.

And so, while I researched 8" drivers to replace the stock Peaveys, (we talked about those the other night, mmm, member?), I finally just said "screw it", after I realized the 2-8" drivers I would need, would cast as much, or more, that the whole damned Berhinger electric guitar amp. And I probably wouldn't have been happy with them anyway.

So, I like electric amps for acoustic guitars, I like big speakers, I'm somewhat at a loss to determine why you think I believe otherwise.

I recommend that Carvin all the time for acoustic players who want to gig with it. I don't waste my time touting stupid ass acoustic amps which have "250 watts of power, and "one 8" speaker". Which is why it should be blatantly obvious, you need to buy an extension cabinet, if you don't to blow one speaker every night you try and turn the piece of shit up.

And as for speaker design, you can get low bass from a small driver, 10" or less. However the cone excursion has to be extensive, hence the magnet structure has to be huge, to match the highest magnetic flux density across the entire length of the voice coil's extended travel..

So, when you get all that accomplished, more often than not, the driver isn't worth a shit for anything but low bass. So, that's pretty much how a "sub-woofer" is designed.
Last edited by Captaincranky at Aug 2, 2016,
#13
Quote by Tony Done
Captaincranky

You've misunderstood, I was just supporting your arguments with a bit of like-minded commentary.
Yeah well, I'm just as senile as you are. Not that I think that's an excuse. It felt good to get that off my chest though, and I apologize for your having to withstand it...
Last edited by Captaincranky at Aug 2, 2016,
#15
trashedlostfdup I think it's unanimous, keep using the music man, unless you're going to do solo gigs, in which case, buy something better than that Fender...