#1
Need advice...I'm playing a telecaster with a 2x12(gt75&c30) and a new model dsl100h.
I like the sound but it's just too loud. Played a gig last night and volume was on 3. I mainly play rhythm, crunch ..and maybe a bit more gain for a few solos etc. I probably need a really low watt amp ..30w maybe? Everywhere I've played the amps have been miced.
Amy advice would be great...seen someone selling a vox ac30 c2 for £500?
#2
A Vox sounds nothing like a Marshall. Do you know the tone you're after?

Here are some options:

- A new amp (maybe a DSL40C?)
- A reamper at the amp output (Unleash, Ultimate, or Power Station)
- A speaker cab with less efficient speakers (would only reduce the volume a bit likely)
- A volume pedal or EQ with volume set low in the smp's effect loop (if you don't rely on power tube distortion)
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Last edited by 8Len8 at Aug 7, 2016,
#3
Pull out two power tubes and it will be 50W.
Remember to switch impedance on the amp down one notch after you do it.
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#4
While 100w is somewhat louder than 30w, it's not the huge difference you seem to think it will be.

Why does it matter that your volume is set low? It either works or it doesn't.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#6
Quote by korinaflyingv
Get a Marshall MG they sound just as good at lower volumes due to the solid state circuitry.


“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
Last edited by Arby911 at Aug 7, 2016,
#7
So what's the problem with having the amp set at 3? That's where my amp ended up at most gigs. Most any amp is going to be loud, you might make it one extra notch with a 30 watt amp but really why bother?
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#8
missing the actual issue here. 100 watt amp is loud well no kidding. I rarely run my amps (50 & 60 watts) higher than that either. no reason to crank the amp to 10 or feel that it's not working right if it isn't. at lower volumes you'll have better control over the amp which is a good thing.
#9
If you can't find your tone set on 3 or want to drag around less gear (I do) get a smaller amp. If you like your amp and it sounds good on 3, you can keep your amp, just turn it down. Pulling 2 power tubes will take the volume down 3db. Noticeable but not a huge difference. An AC30 through efficient speakers is nearly as loud as 100w Marshall.

Chase your tone, accessories, and your size requirements first. Worry about watts last. They really don't matter on most gigs that much between 20w-100w because all large venues will mic your amp anyways to keep stage volume down. If you find your tone you are golden.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

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#10
I don't really understand how the fact the amp is too loud with the volume on 3 is a problem, because you can easily just turn it down a bit from there, it's not like you're on a setting where turning it down the smallest amount makes the sound disappear completely.

It shouldn't matter what number the marker points to on the volume knob, as long as the volume and the EQ is suitably balanced in the mix.
I like analogue Solid State amps that make no effort to be "tube-like", and I'm proud of it...

...A little too proud, to be honest.
#11
Quote by Blompcube
I don't really understand how the fact the amp is too loud with the volume on 3 is a problem, because you can easily just turn it down a bit from there, it's not like you're on a setting where turning it down the smallest amount makes the sound disappear completely.

It shouldn't matter what number the marker points to on the volume knob, as long as the volume and the EQ is suitably balanced in the mix.


Some amps have volume controls with a taper that isn't linear, so when you get anywhere below 9 o'clock on the dial there's an abrupt jump from some volume to no volume.
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#12
Quote by 8Len8
Some amps have volume controls with a taper that isn't linear, so when you get anywhere below 9 o'clock on the dial there's an abrupt jump from some volume to no volume.

I am aware of that, but I've only rarely seen that volume jump happen that far into the range of the pot, and even then - 9 o'clock position is marked as 2 on the DSL, so he's got a fair way to turn it down before that happens.
I like analogue Solid State amps that make no effort to be "tube-like", and I'm proud of it...

...A little too proud, to be honest.
#13
we played a venue a month ago with "house PA" and I have never had my Dual Rec that low volume ..... it sure seemed weird on stage but watching the DVD afterwards it sounded fine ...... so you might be worrying about something that don't need worrying about , just a thought
#14
Quote by tjmartin007
Need advice...I'm playing a telecaster with a 2x12(gt75&c30) and a new model dsl100h.
I like the sound but it's just too loud. Played a gig last night and volume was on 3. I mainly play rhythm, crunch ..and maybe a bit more gain for a few solos etc. I probably need a really low watt amp ..30w maybe? Everywhere I've played the amps have been miced.
Amy advice would be great...seen someone selling a vox ac30 c2 for £500?
That model has a master volume right? Just turn that down. If you absolutely cannot get a reasonable tone with the volume low, keep listening to it/bump the bass up and try to sit with it. We guitarists think our amps sound better louder, and while there is credit to that, a lot of it is just our mind/egos.

If after that you still cannot get a reasonable tone, then yes maybe look into a lower-wattage amp or some form of power attenuator. The AC30 is quite a different sound that then Marshall, though, and AC30's are loud- 30w is more a difference in headroom then volume. That price is about right though- but part of the magic of an AC30 is the Celestion Blue speaker which I do not know if that AC30C2 has the Blue in, although in the AC30C2's the Greenbacks could help you get a Marshall sound. Also look for the AC30CC2/AC30CC2X.

If you know you like the Marshall sound, I would not recommend VOX. It can get there, but Marshall does Marshall better. So a DSL40C may be up your alley. OR rather if you don't know what kind of sound you like, maybe you like VOX...
Last edited by Will Lane at Aug 7, 2016,
#16
Quote by Arby911
While 100w is somewhat louder than 30w, it's not the huge difference you seem to think it will be.

Why does it matter that your volume is set low? It either works or it doesn't.



yeah, that's what i was thinking. if it sounds bad at anywhere below 3, that's absolutely fair enough, that's entirely possible because not all amps sound good turned down- but if it sounds good and you just think you're "wasting" your valve amp by not being able to crank it, I'm not sure that's as sound a reason for wanting a different amp.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
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Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#17
Quote by Cathbard
Pull out two power tubes and it will be 50W.
Remember to switch impedance on the amp down one notch after you do it.


+3.1415

if a 100 watt amp is too loud a 30 watt amp is too loud.

___

i don't see the problem either.
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#18
Yeah, but pulling two tubes out of a Marshall does make a difference to where you run your MV. Instead of being on 3 he will be at 4 or 5
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#20
Quote by korinaflyingv
Get a Marshall MG they sound just as good at lower volumes due to the solid state circuitry.


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#21
tjmartin007

1) look at Mesa Boogie combos - rectoverb, lonestar special, express, transatlantic etc - they're all 30 watts and most importantly - sound great at respectable volumes. I have the 30 watt lonestar special and it can handle any gig and sounds amazing at even room settings - because the amp is well designed. Some of those Marshall 100 watt heads are poorly designed for low volume tones.

2) any amp that is too loud for a gig when set to 3 is a poorly designed amp for today's uses. What any sound engineer will tell you is that those amps cause nothing but problems at shows because they raise the stage volume beyond manageable levels.

3) solid states are a terrible idea - just get a decent tube amp that has it's sweetspot at a usuable level.
#22
^ mesas are awfully expensive here in the UK. looking at the prices he quoted i'm guessing they're out of his reach, even used. they're far from the only tube amps that sound good at reasonable volumes, though. but he didn't actually say it sounded bad at 3, or why he couldn't turn down from 3- i'd want to hear that before recommending he spend a ton more money
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#23
Wow..so many replies.
I guess the theory with a lower watt amp is that it works harder to get the same volume...the tubes break up more and sound better.
And I don't particularly only like the Marshall tone.. I just like songs that have a good tone...love the black crowes...Rolling Stones...Faces...Kings of Leon etc...all will use different amps.
I think I assumed it was a Marshall I'd need to play rock..when in fact many amps have a good overdrive sound..as I play mostly rhythm I find the Marshall a little too harsh. Also the dsl has a shared eq which is a nightmare. Eq the crunch channel which is very bassy... Switch to the other channel and it's way too thin and lacking bass. It kinda makes it a 1 channel amp playing live.
I'm after a combo that has plenty of warm overdrive...that can delve a little bit to heavy rock - the heaviest we play is whole lotta Rosie...
Seen plenty of reviews of the ac30 online and it sounds like it has a great tone.
Then there's always a fender hot rod?
#24
Quote by tjmartin007
Wow..so many replies.
I guess the theory with a lower watt amp is that it works harder to get the same volume...the tubes break up more and sound better.


Except that's not true. Preamp distortion can be obtained at any volume and Power-tube distortion can only be obtained it the power end is driven into distortion, which means at or near maximum volume. It is true that a 30w amp will achieve power end distortion at a lower max volume than a 100w amp (assuming all reasonable variables remain equal) but it won't be very much lower, and both will be incredibly loud.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#25
Quote by Arby911
Except that's not true. Preamp distortion can be obtained at any volume and Power-tube distortion can only be obtained it the power end is driven into distortion, which means at or near maximum volume. It is true that a 30w amp will achieve power end distortion at a lower max volume than a 100w amp (assuming all reasonable variables remain equal) but it won't be very much lower, and both will be incredibly loud.


This. You really just need to understand this. If you're using a tube amp, unless it's seriously like one of those 5w lunchbox amps, it will be capable of getting loud. Probably louder than you'll ever use it. That's why they have volume knobs. There's nothing wrong with having your volume turned down. Any tone difference you hear is in your head. Unless you really are relying on power tube distortion. And if that's the case, even an amp as small as 10-15 watts is going to be loud as all hell at a level that gets power tube distortion.

If turning your DSL down to 3 on the volume knob gets you a good volume level that works for a show where you're mic'd up, then you're good to go. The fact that your volume knob is at 3 rather than 6 or 7 or whatever means nothing at all. Now, if you just don't like that amp anyway, and want something else, there's a discussion to be had.
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#26
Quote by the_bi99man
This. You really just need to understand this. If you're using a tube amp, unless it's seriously like one of those 5w lunchbox amps, it will be capable of getting loud. Probably louder than you'll ever use it. That's why they have volume knobs. There's nothing wrong with having your volume turned down. Any tone difference you hear is in your head. Unless you really are relying on power tube distortion. And if that's the case, even an amp as small as 10-15 watts is going to be loud as all hell at a level that gets power tube distortion.

If turning your DSL down to 3 on the volume knob gets you a good volume level that works for a show where you're mic'd up, then you're good to go. The fact that your volume knob is at 3 rather than 6 or 7 or whatever means nothing at all. Now, if you just don't like that amp anyway, and want something else, there's a discussion to be had.
I was in GC playing on one of the new Bassbreakers, the 45 methinks. I set the "output" control to 1w and mistakenly raised the channel volume to compensate. Well. 1w is still silly loud...
Last edited by Will Lane at Aug 8, 2016,
#27
Quote by Will Lane
I was in GC playing on one of the new Bassbreakers, the 45 methinks. I set the "output" control to 1w and mistakenly raised the channel volume to compensate. Well. 1w is still silly loud...


+1 yeah. 1w@1m on a vintage 30 is ~100db. that is LOUD. it can cause hearing damage if exposed to for a while.
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Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



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#28
Quote by Will Lane
I was in GC playing on one of the new Bassbreakers, the 45 methinks. I set the "output" control to 1w and mistakenly raised the channel volume to compensate. Well. 1w is still silly loud...


yep exactly

i have a 5 watt hayden petite 5 and it has a master volume- when i'm using any appreciable amount of preamp distortion with it I have to set the master to roughly the same point a I do on my 100 watt engl. At about 1 (if even).

As arby says, that's not to say that more wattage (everything else being equal) isn't louder, but it's not always *that* much louder, and even so-called "low wattage" amps can still get really, really loud if you want power tube distortion.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Aug 9, 2016,
#29
Quote by tjmartin007
Wow..so many replies.
I guess the theory with a lower watt amp is that it works harder to get the same volume...the tubes break up more and sound better.
And I don't particularly only like the Marshall tone.. I just like songs that have a good tone...love the black crowes...Rolling Stones...Faces...Kings of Leon etc...all will use different amps.
I think I assumed it was a Marshall I'd need to play rock..when in fact many amps have a good overdrive sound..as I play mostly rhythm I find the Marshall a little too harsh. Also the dsl has a shared eq which is a nightmare. Eq the crunch channel which is very bassy... Switch to the other channel and it's way too thin and lacking bass. It kinda makes it a 1 channel amp playing live.
I'm after a combo that has plenty of warm overdrive...that can delve a little bit to heavy rock - the heaviest we play is whole lotta Rosie...
Seen plenty of reviews of the ac30 online and it sounds like it has a great tone.
Then there's always a fender hot rod?


in that case get your self an overdrive pedal. you can set your amp to tones you like and if you need more dirt then kick on the pedal.
#30
So what's so hard about pulling two tubes? It will cost nothing.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#31
Quote by Cathbard
So what's so hard about pulling two tubes? It will cost nothing.


+1
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Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/