Page 1 of 2
#1
Just looking for some advice on Les Pauls, I'm in the market for one, I like the sound, shape etc etc but I've heard they have quite delicate necks?

I had my eyes on a LP studio but heard they aren't very strong. I need a guitar that can handle a bit of a battering due to chaotic live shows (I'm not ramming it into the ground or ceiling or anything) but it will get knocked by humans, amps, cymbals etc.

LP studios are within my price range and seem to do that job but can they handle the chaos? Are the more expensive ones tougher? I would consider second hand.

Cheers for the advice.
#2
Quote by CharlieJ_W
Are the more expensive ones tougher?
For the most part, nope.

The weak spot on a Les Paul neck is the headstock, as the neck is made from a single piece of wood and the grain doesn't run the full length of the headstock. The wood is strong parallel, rather than perpendicular to the grain. You can Google image search "Les Paul neck break" and you'll get a pretty good idea pretty quickly.

There are three main ways to make that joint tougher:
  • A scarf joint, which flips the piece of wood used for the headstock so the grain runs the full length. That's available on a lot of cheaper models like Epiphones, but not, as far as I know, on actual Gibsons - it's not "traditional"*. I think multi-piece necks might also help, having slightly different grain patterns and glue between the different layers, but I'm not sure.
  • A volute on that joint. I don't think Gibson do these, but other manufacturers may do.
  • A maple neck. Maple is tougher than mahogany, so you get a more stable and resilient (but possibly different-sounding) neck. Gibson have a couple of Les Pauls with maple necks, I'm sure other makes do too. For the record, because some people get this twisted, that doesn't mean you need to have a maple fretboard.


*I scoff, but both my guitars have heel-adjusted truss rods so I guess I'm not in a position to mock that
Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
Youre officially uber shit now.

Quote by StewieSwan
3d9310rd is far more upset than i 

Quote by Bladez22
I'm a moron tho apparently and everyone should listen to you oh wise pretentious one
Last edited by K33nbl4d3 at Aug 7, 2016,
#3
'Tough' and 'Gibson' are contradictive words

The one i used to gig with basically fell apart.Bits loose and cracking and falling off etc.Never had the headstock or neck crack but i'm sure it could very easily happened had i not retired it.
#4
Thats my issue, some people have no issue and literally use them for years with no issues. Then other people claim that they just cant stand up to the abuse of regular play and potential live show accidents.

I did plan to 'strip it back' and change some of the hardware, locking tuners and removing unnecessary bits. I'm just after a serious work horse basically.
#5
CharlieJ_W try a 2014 LPJ, I have one and it's just a work horse. Stripped back, even more so than a Studio and has a maple neck. Should do you fine and can be had fairly cheap still and even cheaper used.

I bought mine last year for £579 new but saw one sold on ebay last night for £300
#6
If you're in the USA, look into an Agile to gig with or an Epiphone.
Guitars:
Ibanez RG1570 Prestige
Jackson Kelly KE3 - MIJ (Distortion/Jazz)
Jackson DKMGT Dinky (EMG 81/85)
ESP E-II Eclipse Custom (JB/'59)
ESP LTD EC-1001FR (EMG 81/60)
Fender MIM Strat

Amps:
Mesa/Boogie Dual Rectifier Roadster 212
Laney IronHeart IRT-Studio
Peavey Vypyr 30
Peavey ReValver Amp Sims
TOOOO many T.C. Electronic Pedals. . .
#7
DoodlesMusic Yes! Thats basically what I need. That sounds ideal. Fuck I would have paid 350! Is that with Burstbuckers?


metalmingee Sadly Im in the UK so that reduces options and increases prices...
#8
Quote by CharlieJ_W


metalmingee Sadly Im in the UK so that reduces options and increases prices...


Nonetheless, Agile makes the AL3200 which is a neck-through LP-alike with a multipiece maple and walnut neck that's seriously tough.

Another option is to go cheap:

I have no idea what you're talking about when you say "chaos," but I have "bar guitars" that I use when the gig features a drinking environment with a very low (or no) stage, or when you're crammed into one end or even a corner of a bar dance floor. I use LPs with Floyds (hard enough to find as it is) and have a pair of Agile AL2000 Floyds (discontinued) and an AL3100 Floyd. The former have 24-fret necks and a "tilted" neck heel (great for upper fret access) and the 3100 is pretty much the same as the Gibson Studio Shred, except with that the Agile has much upgraded materials/construction and a much cheaper price tag. All three are SOLID body guitars, none of them cost me over $300 (two were $200), though all were purchased used. Pickups range from stock (variously ceramic and AlnicoV based) to a DiMarzio SuperDistortion and a Sustainer Driver. Jumbo frets, 13.7" radii fretboards. They're less susceptible to headstock breaks (two have maple necks) and I'd have no compunctions about swinging one of them if things get out of hand (so far they've only been used once, and as a tool to...uh...redirect a heifer who was careening toward a destructive and expensive conclusion to her unintended path.

You might look into good looking but far less expensive used Epiphones and the like if you insist on putting them in harm's way.
#9
Lots of good-sounding, well-made but less-costly.-than-Gibson LPclones out there. I'll add Electra to the list of alternatives already suggested. I don't know who sells them overseas, but they do also sell directly from their website.

I have their Omega Prime, the one with the fancier finish in the product line. It's my second favorite LPclone in my possession, and I'd gladly order another (probably in ceruse).

Canada's Godin has made several LP clones over the years, usually quite nice. Besides their in-house pickups, they use Seymour Duncans and even Lollars for their guitars.

You might also check out UK's home-grown companies, like Fret-King. I own 3 different FKs. Nice axes.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#10
dspellman I'm not intentionally putting my gear in harms way but I play in a hardcore band and there is 0 divide between stage and crowd, people are jumping off each other/stuff and feet and legs are everywhere. My set up often involves pedal boards and foot switches being onto of the amp and out of harms way. Just the nature of the beast. Looking for a hardy guitar to survive this sort of thing.

Great to get a list of alternatives though! My price range is about £400-500 ($600)
#11
In your situation I would go for a clone and change the pickups if necessary rather than pay for the Gibson name and then do a lot of modding on it. The Agile sounds good from dspellman's description.

Do the Epis have scarf jointed headstocks?.

Another option I would be thinking about is an HH strat type for toughness and interchangeable necks.
Last edited by Tony Done at Aug 7, 2016,
#12
First, a link to a new Electra Omega on their website:
http://www.electraguitar.com/products/eowht-eoc
http://www.electraguitar.com/products/eoblk-eoc

You may also be able to find used ones.
Quote by Tony Done

Another option I would be thinking about is an HH strat type for toughness and interchangeable necks.

Good insight! A similar good option might be something like a G&L Tribute ASAT Deluxe.
http://musicstorelive.com/g-l-tribute-asat-deluxe-carved-top-trans-red-rosewood.html?gclid=CKnG5MSpsM4CFQyOaQodJAEG0A
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
Last edited by dannyalcatraz at Aug 7, 2016,
#13
Quote by Tony Done
Another option I would be thinking about is an HH strat type for toughness and interchangeable necks.
Or the FMT Telecaster - I don't know if the used models you could get for £500 are the same as what's on the Fender site at the moment but it's got a pair of Seymour Duncan humbuckers - the '59 in the neck and the Pearly Gates in the bridge - which are both based on '59 PAFs, the same body wood setup as a Les Paul (maple top on mahogany), set neck and 22 frets. It pretty much is a Fender Les Paul. The neck's still mahogany like a Les Paul, but the headstock's mostly in line with the neck so you don't have the same inherent structural issue as the Les Paul headstock joint.
Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
Youre officially uber shit now.

Quote by StewieSwan
3d9310rd is far more upset than i 

Quote by Bladez22
I'm a moron tho apparently and everyone should listen to you oh wise pretentious one
Last edited by K33nbl4d3 at Aug 7, 2016,
#14
What about an Epiphone Les Paul Tribute Plus ?
(Link: https://www.andertons.co.uk/p/ENTPFCNH1/solid-body-electric-guitars/epiphone-les-paul-tribute-plus-in-faded-cherry-burst)
It's £555, has a beautiful finish, Gibson USA '57 Classic Humbuckers, a hard case and Grover Locking tuners.
Don't know about the scarf joint though.
Last edited by juvion at Aug 7, 2016,
#15
Its difficult walking a line where I have a guitar I love to play, with good build quality etc etc that i am brave enough to take on stage.
I'm definitely set on a les paul shape though.

Think I'm going to go second hand for sure.
Last edited by CharlieJ_W at Aug 7, 2016,
#16
OK. We now know you want the LP body. But just realized that I (at least) have been assuming you want 2 HBs, but- given what is out there in Gibson's own production history, a LP could also pack 3HBs, 2 P90s, a bridge HB paired with a neck P90, or even a pair of EMGs. Possibly more...

What kind of pickups do you want in your gigging axe?

Edit: here's one option
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Godin-Core-HB-Lightburst-GT-RN-w-Gig-Bag-Made-in-Canada-/262521293757?hash=item3d1f7d0bbd:g:ybgAAOSwjXRXcao5
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
Last edited by dannyalcatraz at Aug 7, 2016,
#17
Quote by CharlieJ_W
Think I'm going to go second hand for sure.
Yeah, as long as you have a wit or two about you, that really is the best way.
Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
Youre officially uber shit now.

Quote by StewieSwan
3d9310rd is far more upset than i 

Quote by Bladez22
I'm a moron tho apparently and everyone should listen to you oh wise pretentious one
#19
Quote by luke.g.henderso
What are ESP LTD EC series like, or Chapman ML-2s, toughness-wise?


Pretty much the same as anything else. They're all set necks. About the only thing that might help is if the headstock (and neck) angle is less than that on the LP. And I've just never cared all that much to find out.
#20
i haven't ever had a problem with gigging with gibsons. most people who break the headstock knock it off a stand, or do something stupid and drop it. its not like the studios are super expensive if something were to happen.

look into a peavey USA wolfgang. i use mine more than my LP's and it coveres similar turf. stock pickups are quite nice too. IMO the peavey wolfgangs are better than the EVH fender produced guitars. thing is bulletproof. they make trem and hard tail modes, i have had a both and liked them.

ya know there are a lot of people back in the day used gibsons, without trouble.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#21
dannyalcatraz Something fairly high out put but with some vintage grit I think. I have some active EMGs in another guitar and they are good/ serve a
purpose. But for this guitar... something big and tonal with character, staying away from the slight clinical nature of actives. Chances are I'm always going to be in
bridge position.
#22
Hmmm...except for LPclones from "metal" guitar companies- DBZ, Fernandes, LTD, Dean, etc.- most stock LPs will feature medium output HBs. So you might want to look at those brands first.

Or you could find the guitar you like the look & feel of first and then upgrade the pickups later, if need be.

And it IS HBs you're looking for, right?
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
Last edited by dannyalcatraz at Aug 8, 2016,
#23
dannyalcatraz Yeah for sure, I'm not against medium output pick ups either. The Bustbuckers/ other medium to high end LP pups all sound good to me. I have an amp with enough output as it is, so i guess the main aim is to just find a nice sounding pick up. Yeah definitely after HBs.
#24
here is my wolfgang. you can find them under $500 readily.



here is an import model with a trem:



this was an old pic with a bad camera.

i highly suggest the american models.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
Last edited by trashedlostfdup at Aug 8, 2016,
#25
I've jumped into crowds with my SG. It has some wear, but I haven't had anything fixed on it. I've seen crazy stuff happen to LTD EC-1000's as well. As long as you don't slam it into the ground, it should be fine. Even a rowdy crowd has respect enough for your instrument, usually.
#26
Quote by I K0nijn I
I've jumped into crowds with my SG. It has some wear, but I haven't had anything fixed on it. I've seen crazy stuff happen to LTD EC-1000's as well. As long as you don't slam it into the ground, it should be fine. Even a rowdy crowd has respect enough for your instrument, usually.


+1 i don't really get the problem. I think the OP is over obsessing.

straplocks are a must, mine have saved a lot of guitars a lot of times.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#27
I have played Gibson Les Paul's for 40 years now. That time includes long road trips for several months in vans pulling unheated trailers through rough midwest winters and blazing hot trips to Colorado and New Mexico in the summer, again pulling equipment around in U-Haul trailers. I now know that I have been extremely lucky. Extreme cold gave my 1975 Les Paul a severe case of front and back finish checks and I had to replace plastic parts when the heat of Colorado and Salt lake City Utah warped the plastic on my pick guard and pickup rings. The Les Paul guitar itself (neck and body) never gave me an issue so I consider that a pretty solid guitar but physical abuse is another issue. I have seen an instance of a headstock break on a Les Paul while I was apprenticing with a luthier but I don't know the particulars of how it happened.

I agree with going for an Epiphone, Agile (very nice and very affordable) or a used Gibson Studio (look on EBay).
Yes I am guitarded also, nice to meet you.
Last edited by Rickholly74 at Aug 8, 2016,
#28
Quote by trashedlostfdup
straplocks are a must, mine have saved a lot of guitars a lot of times.
Absolutely, wherever you're playing. I wouldn't buy a guitar without getting a pair.
Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
Youre officially uber shit now.

Quote by StewieSwan
3d9310rd is far more upset than i 

Quote by Bladez22
I'm a moron tho apparently and everyone should listen to you oh wise pretentious one
#29
trashedlostfdup K33nbl4d3 Of course I include strap locks on my guitar... this isn't an issue of my guitar falling off me or me dropping it. I have played live many many times but never with a Gibson. I've used a LTD EC-1000 a fair bit live and its fine. Now I'm looking for a new guitar, similar shape, not the same guitar. But definitely some lower end gibson/ high end epiphone or second hand.

Its not over obsessing, its just questioning peoples experience regarding a guitar I'm interested in buying.
#30
Rickholly74 Luckily my gear just has to survive the utterly mediocre weather of the UK and parts of Europe. Good story though, thats the sort of work horse I'm looking for.
#31
Quote by K33nbl4d3
Absolutely, wherever you're playing. I wouldn't buy a guitar without getting a pair.


yeah. especially with gibson LP's, the original strap buttons are small and the placement on the one by the neck is at a dumb angle.

i bought 20 sets of the strap (button only) in bulk, and have a couple of extra. that way you don't end up with too many receptacles sitting around.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#32
CharlieJ_W, while a lower end Gibson might be an upgrade in some cases, I'd say in most it's a sidestep or even a downgrade if you have an EC-1000. I'd honestly either get a cheap one if you need it as a backup or save more to get something a lot better.
#33
I would look into an Epiphone Les Paul Tribute Plus, the closest Epiphone make to a Gibson (Full thickness maple flame cap, USA Gibson pickups, deep set tenon joint for the neck) but at a price point that won't make you shit a couch if it gets broken by some doilem in a bar.
My Gear:
Ibanez Jet King 2
Ibanez RGDIX7 MPB
Ibanez GRG 7221
OLP John Petrucci
Epiphone Les Paul Custom Pro
Squier Stratocaster (modified)
Harley Benton CLD-41S (Acoustic)

Peavey Vypyr 30.

Boss CH-1 Super Chorus
Boss DD-3 Digital Delay
Boss FRV-1 '63 Fender Reverb
#34
I K0nijn I Would a Les Paul Studio be that much of a downgrade on a LTD EC-1000? I always assumed they were of a fairly similar level. The Gibson
would act as my secondary guitar and add a bit more of a vintage tone as opposed to the clinical high gain active pups in the LTD.

Any idea what I should be looking for second hand wise? Really not bothered about getting a shiny new guitar, just a reliable one. I've got about £400-500. Possibly a little more if the right guitar shows.
#35
the EC1000 and Gibson LP's are quite different animals.

i have owned three LTD's, a EC400 and EC401 and an EC1000. i own two gibson les paul studios and three other gibsons.

as far as the fit and finish on Gibson is concerned, yeah, they can be hit or miss. if you find a nice specimen the Gibson studios are very similar to the EC1000's, plus or minus.

they are very different though, don't let the single cut shape to thinking they are similar. different necks, pickups, etc. just about everything feels different.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#36
trashedlostfdup Definitely! I'm looking for that difference with this next guitar. I guess the shape is just personal preference. The different pick ups is the most appealing thing. Things like different shaped necks is just something I'd quickly get used to.
#37
There are guitars in the EC series with passive pickups, including models with Duncans, and some with DiMarzios.

Jordan and Andy from Every Time I Die have used LPs and ECs, and I've seen Jordan jump off the stage into the crowd with no problems.
#38
CharlieJ_W

Quote by trashedlostfdup
the EC1000 and Gibson LP's are quite different animals.

i have owned three LTD's, a EC400 and EC401 and an EC1000. i own two gibson les paul studios and three other gibsons.

as far as the fit and finish on Gibson is concerned, yeah, they can be hit or miss. if you find a nice specimen the Gibson studios are very similar to the EC1000's, plus or minus.

they are very different though, don't let the single cut shape to thinking they are similar. different necks, pickups, etc. just about everything feels different.


This was mostly what I meant. There are great Studio's out there, but I've played Studio's that I'd say arent better than an Epiphone with upgraded pickups as well. A good Studio will be an equivalent quality guitar to the EC-1000 for sure, but it's not too hard to find one of the less good ones if you really play quite a few of them at a store or where ever.
#39
Quote by CharlieJ_W
trashedlostfdup Definitely! I'm looking for that difference with this next guitar. I guess the shape is just personal preference. The different pick ups is the most appealing thing. Things like different shaped necks is just something I'd quickly get used to.


We've gone from a "toughness" question to random LP-style guitar characteristics, then?

Just to backtrack. While most LP owners will tell you their guitars have never broken, the truth is that the Gibson-style LP headstock is the most-broken in the industry. Quite honestly, the most likely place for it to be broken is in its case and in transit, with a tilt-over fall from a stand or from resting against an amp the second-most likely. The least likely guitars to break are those from other manufacturers that feature a *different* headstock angle and/or a different construction method (neck-through, laminated neck, etc.).

In the under-$1000 category, Gibson doesn't do its best work. Asian-sourced guitars are actually much higher quality, dollar-for-dollar, in this bracket. ESP/LTD is not necessarily the best brand in this bracket, but in some locations it's the only choice.

You will find (as most more experienced players have) that neck shape can affect your comfort level long-term. You will also find that pickups are less important than you think but that they can always be replaced. Sound-wise, amps and other tone-shaping devices have more impact.
#40
dspellman, it's probably the most broken in the industry, but it's not like a Les Paul falls apart the second you hit it. It could, but it doesn't snap by all means at first contact. My SG (similar construction, maybe even more frail) neck has been bashed into stuff while not being careful enough turning around and there isn't a mark on it from those hits. No cracks in the finish, no actual cracks in the wood, nothing. I'm not saying they can't break, but I've seen bands throw their cheaper Gibson Les Paul across the stage (noise bands that destroy everything on their stage) without any damage to the construction of the guitar.
Page 1 of 2