#1
Is there a place here or somewhere else that has sheet music contributions?
I'm learning how to read bass staffs and it would help.
#2
Thanks. That will help.
What do you do when the notes on the staff are below the e?
#3
Kabadi - Thanks for the tip about tuxguitar! I was not aware of this free application.
#4
kabadi.manI understand where the notes correspond to the lines and spaces. Open e is online below the bas cleff, then f, then g first line, etc. The point is open is the lowest string. Some sheet music has notes below that. As a musician, what would you do if you were asked to play it?
How would you compensate. I assume a 5 string bass could play it since it has a b string below the e. I have a 4 string.
#5
it would either need a 5-string bass, or downtune the bass if its only a semitone lower, or play the octave instead.
#7
NeoMvsEu
THAT"S what I needed to know. Many thanks!
#9
Sheet music is recognised as an international language you could sit down alongside a musician from any other country and although you may not be able to converse but you both will read from the same song sheet whereas Tablature is extremely limited.
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#10
Tabulature unlike sheet music is not compatable on a universal scale. Because I learnt standard music I was able to play in many genres of music :- Beat, R&R, Big Dance Ban, Trad Jazz Band, Resident musician. Rock Band, Delta Blues Oh and studying Bb Tenor Saxophone at Knellar Hall {Royal Military School Of Music London) where I played heavy classics including on the Royal Festival Hall London.
At no time would Tabulature have been of use.
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#11
The thing about tab is that it is one person's opinion on which fret to use.
Sheet music you read the note and the octave, and choose your own place on the fretboard, which I prefer. Plus you learn the notes on your fretboard.
Good example is Ricki don't lose that number. The song uses notes up to the 12th fret. I choose to spend my time from the 5th fret on b/c most of the notes are there. The only ones on the 1st octave E string are F# and G# and it's just a few times. But if someone tabbed it out, they could have you running from the 3rd to the 12th fret for no reason and it would be harder to play.
I think a better tab would simply be the note and the octave such as: A1 B2 G3 etc.
#12
kabadi.man
Quote by kabadi.man
well thats you, not everyone will be the same.
There are many people here from lots of different countries who use the tabs on UG so tab is an international language for some instruments, even if you personally dont think so

Yes but you're restricting yourself to Guitar by your point of view, if as I did besides guitar bands you'd played in Miller/Dorsey genre orchestras etc a military musician studying at the Royal Military School of Music 'Knellar Hall London', or been a resident house musician where you were given the dots immediately before going on stage you would realise how important music and theory are.
And here is the bit that may shock you, I can honestly say that I've never worked with anyone who uses Tablature in a career spanning 54 yrs and tonight I'll be playing in my M.O.R Soft rock band.
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#14
Well, yes, and I don't find tab useless, but it's not universal through all instruments.

The point John Swift was trying to make earlier, and I repeat now, is that tab is limited to a certain group of instruments. Perhaps it is most relevant to Ultimate-Guitar, but not to the wide range of all musicians. Sheet music, on the other hand, can be translated to any instrument.
#15
Guitarists are a subset of all musicians, but not all musicians are guitarists. I was generalizing beyond just guitar-like instruments.
#16
The way I see it, tablature is a way for a guitarist/bassist to learn a piece ahead of time.. You often don't have timings on there, and for the tabs that do, it's arranged in such a way that it is difficult to use it for sight reading. Is it as informative as standard notation? Absolutely not. It's pretty much of any use only to guitarists/bassists. I can't write out a lick I want mirrored or harmonised in tab and hand it to a flautist to play just before walking on stage. Modern music notation has been around since, what, the mid 18th century? It can be utilised by pretty much any instrument developed or used to play Western music. Tablature is only used by a small part of a huge instrument family.

In short, tablature is a guitarist's learning tool, not a way to converse with other musicians. If you want to be a session player, then you better learn notation, because no musical director is going to rewrite everything out in tab for one or two people in an ensemble.
#18
Quote by Deliriumbassist
The way I see it, tablature is a way for a guitarist/bassist to learn a piece ahead of time.. You often don't have timings on there, and for the tabs that do, it's arranged in such a way that it is difficult to use it for sight reading. Is it as informative as standard notation? Absolutely not. It's pretty much of any use only to guitarists/bassists. I can't write out a lick I want mirrored or harmonised in tab and hand it to a flautist to play just before walking on stage. Modern music notation has been around since, what, the mid 18th century? It can be utilised by pretty much any instrument developed or used to play Western music. Tablature is only used by a small part of a huge instrument family.


In short, tablature is a guitarist's learning tool, not a way to converse with other musicians. If you want to be a session player, then you better learn notation, because no musical director is going to rewrite everything out in tab for one or two people in an ensemble.

Very well put.
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#19
Went to my local guitar center to look at music books and found an "Ultimate Guitar Bass Bonanza" book with standard notation and tablature. I've found some books the print is too small to be much use. Not the case with this one. I can read it clear without being 6 inches from the page, lol.
#20
Quote by kabadi.man
I get what you are saying, but that is not the type of "universal" that john was talking about :-


So like I said, it is universal in that sense. You can sit me next to a German and a Russian guitarist with none of us understanding a word we say, but we can all read the same tab and understand it. That understanding is not exclusive tobsheet music
If you were a Violinist you could sit next to an Oboist and read and understand the same information whereas tab is extremely limited in the music world.
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#21
kabadi.man

I think you're stuck on the fact that guitarists and bassists being musicians. Not all musicians are guitarists and/or bassists. Western-style sheet music is much more flexible across all instruments than tablature is. Given one tuning standard, there is only one pitch that matches a note on a piece of sheet music; however, the sheet music gives a lot of flexibility on where to play and also on what instrument to play said note, and good positions (relative to desired effect) can be learned. (Piano music has fingerings on it quite often; however, this is often editorial work instead of composer demand.)

Tablature, on the other hand, is stuck on a small set of instruments, with less clarity on how the one position's note translates to actual pitch. It also offers much less flexibility in terms of tone; low E's 7th fret and A-string 2nd fret objectively sound different, but by conforming to tab, you are locking yourself in to one type of performance.

This is the limit of tablature John Swift referred to from the beginning. Otherwise, in his clarifying second post, he wouldn't have mentioned saxophone.
#22
While I won't disagree with most of what is being said here, something of note that should be added to this discussion given that sheet music does need a certain 'disclaimer'. It is not entirely true that all sheet music is the same. Most of this is shown in the cleff being used. For the guitar for example, there is often (read: SHOULD BE) an 8 below it, indicating that the notes we play are actually a full octave below what is being read. For different instruments there is also often the situation where they're being provided different sheet music with the same melody, which actually sounds the same when played, simply because it's easier to read.

Meaning to say, is that if a guitarist, a french violin and a saxophonist start playing from the same sheet music, they will sound horrendous because what is being read is not what should be played. This is where the divide comes in, where we have C instruments, Bb instruments, etc. But in many cases these instruments, despite sounding different use the same cleff. The music is just transposed so it reads as if it were a different key, but sounds the same. So despite it often looking the same, the instruments are not, and sometimes the music is written down the most readable way.
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Last edited by FretboardToAsh at Oct 25, 2016,
#23
FretboardToAsh
This is where knowledge of instrumentation applies, to be given a piece of music ie 8 bars of piano music and arrange it for military band or orchestra defines the meaning of an international language regarding music compared to Tab.
I started playing Bass in the heady of R&R and into Beatlemania but the breakthrough for me was after I joined the army as a regular and ended up in the military band which was an orchestra that marched, I played bass in the dance band and rock band along with Bb Tenor Saxophone in the military band on which I attended Knellar Hall the Royal Military School of Music in London. This lead me to be able to play Bass in big swing era Glen Miller type dance orchestras, resident in a Jazz club and resident musician backing artistes whose dots you were given immediately before you went on stage, all of this because I used dots not tabs.
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#24
[QUOTE=FretboardToAsh} It is not entirely true that all sheet music is the same. Most of this is shown in the cleff being used.
That is where instrumentation comes in The conductor or band leaders score which contains all instruments being used is written in concert pitch, this score goes across the page not down.
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#25
Quote by John Swift
This is where knowledge of instrumentation applies, to be given a piece of music ie 8 bars of piano music and arrange it for military band or orchestra defines the meaning of an international language regarding music compared to Tab.


Quote by John Swift
That is where instrumentation comes in The conductor or band leaders score which contains all instruments being used is written in concert pitch, this score goes across the page not down.


I'm familiar with conductor's scores, but that does not change the fact that sheet music for a C instrument such as a guitar, is not always the same arrangement that would be given to a Bb trumpet player. That is also what I meant when I said sheet music, in orchestra's, swing bands, or other larger ensembles that have instruments that vary, will still need someone to make those arrangements if the musicians can't do it themselves, and finding out a musicians ability at this a minute into the show is not a good entrance.

This can be a conductor, a band leader, or a hired arranger (a common free-lance job actually, for composers trying to make a living, they tend to arrange a lot more than they compose), or in some cases the musicians themselves, but it's still a necessity for such an ensemble to properly function as a whole. Just like a singer coming to a session will give out a leadsheet for C instruments to a pianist, or a guitarist, and not a leadsheet for a Bb instrument. Certainly there shall be musicians capable of instantly transposing it mentally, but one does not do anyone any favors and it is simply uncommon.

Again, I was not denying that sheet music is more approachable from a musical point of view, where tablature takes a more instrument-involved and technical standpoint and thus limits itself to certain instruments. But it is also true that sheet music has its limitations in this aspect, which we have made up so reading from sheet music is easier for the musicians involved. It just requires a bit of arranging first, as I stated to simply want to clarify in my former post. It's true that, as you said in your earlier post, there are a fair number of jazz musicians can do this instantly, but jazz is far from the only musical genre that employs sheet music. One does not instantly arrange Bach's chaconne a minor interval up or down, just to give an example.

Regardless, to stay on topic. To the OP, be aware that sheet music for different instruments can vary in tonality. So if you read along with one instrument, it's possible that you can be too high or low, in the wrong key, or that the music doesn't seem to make any sense at all. If this happens, remember that something like this may be off. So long as you use your ears, I'm sure you'll manage.
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Last edited by FretboardToAsh at Oct 25, 2016,
#26
Quote by FretboardToAsh
I'm familiar with conductor's scores, but that does not change the fact that sheet music for a C instrument such as a guitar, is not always the same arrangement that would be given to a Bb trumpet player.
This where instrumentation comes in as well as arranging if you get my point.
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#27
Quote by bar2271
Update:

Found this site will perusing the net:

http://www.thebassment.info/transcriptions.html

You can contribute to the site, as well.

Also I've been playing around with with musescore to create my own standard notation scores:

https://musescore.org/




I actually second using Musescore. I've been using it lately to create some of my own lead sheets.
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#29
Quote by bar2271
Is a lead sheet written for piano?
Lead sheet is generally melody with chords. Why?
#30
Quote by NeoMvsEu
Lead sheet is generally melody with chords. Why?

Not quite sure you mean by 'Lead sheet', I've always used the conductors score where the instruments are listed vertically and where the music I written from the left page to the right and then turn over instead left to right on each single page and then down.
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#31
I guess I should clarify.
When looking for sheet music of a song, it usually has the treble and bass cleff.
Sometimes, the only one available is what they call a lead sheet, and it only has the treble cleff, and it is about half the price of the regular scores. So, I assumed it was the basic score from the composer who would then hand it to the bassist, horns, etc. to finish the music. Or write those parts later himself.

Example:
I wanted the bass score for this song, but this is all they had:
http://www.musicnotes.com/sheetmusic/mtd.asp?ppn=MN0146689
Last edited by bar2271 at Oct 29, 2016,
#32
Quote by bar2271
I guess I should clarify.
When looking for sheet music of a song, it usually has the treble and bass cleff.
Sometimes, the only one available is what they call a lead sheet, and it only has the treble cleff, and it is about half the price of the regular scores. So, I assumed it was the basic score from the composer who would then hand it to the bassist, horns, etc. to finish the music. Or write those parts later himself.

Example:
I wanted the bass score for this song, but this is all they had:
http://www.musicnotes.com/sheetmusic/mtd.asp?ppn=MN0146689

Work from the shown chords this is what I've always done with this type of music and still do since 1962. When I first joined my regimental band in 1966 it was because they wanted me to use my civilian experience from the Beatlemania scene, I couldn't read music but I was thrown in at the deep end on a dance band gig so I used the guitar score and worked from the chords shown, needless to say I landed the gig permanently. Some songs have required bass lines ie Hotel California but the vast majority are open to individual interpretation.
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Last edited by John Swift at Oct 29, 2016,