#1
Just curious about the effects of these kinds of pedals are on overall tone. I have a Rocktron pulse tremolo and it isn't advertised as anything in regards to the footswitch. Same with an old Ibanez PL5 I have. I have a boss tuner at the beginning of the chain as a buffer (sounds fine to me) and was wondering if I should be concerned with any tone loss from either of these pedals. I am reassembling my pedalboard after giving it some sealer and was thinking about this. Or is this just one of those things that I need to try and listen for myself and stop bothering y'all?
#2
Or is this just one of those things that I need to try and listen for myself and stop bothering y'all?

Not a bad suggestion in all fairness.

Pedals can have their bypass wired a few different ways. True bypass and buffered being the common ones, but 'hardwire bypass' is another way. And its the worst way for a pedal to be bypassed because such a bypass implies that the guitar signal runs through the entire pedal without being buffered, so the tone of the guitar signal still gets affected by the pedal (depending on what pedal it is). Sometimes it isn't too bad, but it varies greatly depending the pedal's input impedance. Slightly counter intuitively, the higher in input impedance, the less prone the pedal is to affecting the strength of the guitar signal when the pedal is off.

But all facts and figures aside, there's no reason to not see for yourself.
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Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE at Aug 10, 2016,
#3
T00DEEPBLUE Just tried out the ibanez and didn't detect any difference, going to check the rocktron. I know my ears are the best judge but knowing the 'how and why' can help me make a better decision in the long run too! Does your description of the effect on hardwire bypass apply to analog and/or digital? The PL5 is analog and the rocktron is mostly LED based. (I believe.)
#4
Quote by bass.desires
T00DEEPBLUE Just tried out the ibanez and didn't detect any difference, going to check the rocktron. I know my ears are the best judge but knowing the 'how and why' can help me make a better decision in the long run too! Does your description of the effect on hardwire bypass apply to analog and/or digital? The PL5 is analog and the rocktron is mostly LED based. (I believe.)


you may well not hear a difference regardless of bypass or buffer type used. unless there is a serious issue most modern pedals won't kill your signal in a noticeable fashion. it also depends on how you have your amp set up tone wise. if your amp is already downplaying say the really high treble end of things than even if the pedal effected that you won't hear it. when you start stringing together a bunch of pedals then you might start hearing things. if you use really long chords then again you might start to notice issues. as long as you use decent quality chords then chances are you won't hear much if any tone suck.
#5
Quote by bass.desires
T00DEEPBLUE Just tried out the ibanez and didn't detect any difference, going to check the rocktron. I know my ears are the best judge but knowing the 'how and why' can help me make a better decision in the long run too! Does your description of the effect on hardwire bypass apply to analog and/or digital? The PL5 is analog and the rocktron is mostly LED based. (I believe.)

It applies to all pedals. Doesn't matter what kind.

This article explains in layman's terms the concept of impedance in the context of pedals very well.

http://www.mrblackpedals.com/blogs/straight-jive/6629774-buffers-impedance-and-other-internet-lore
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#6
I'm going to take a read after rehearsal tonight trying to reorder the pedal board is a PIA sometimes.
#7
So much hand wringing on the net by young guitarists over "true bypass". Trust thine ears. If it sounds like someone put a pillow over your amp, don't buy it.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#8
Quote by Cajundaddy
So much hand wringing on the net by young guitarists over "true bypass". Trust thine ears. If it sounds like someone put a pillow over your amp, don't buy it.


#9
Cajundaddy I was more curious about what type of bypass it was if it wasn't 'true bypass' or 'buffered' and what it could or couldn't do to my signal.
#10
^If you say it not true or buffered bypass, it is hardwired bypass. Which IIRC that means the bypassed signal runs through some of the pedal's circuitry. Often that in turn means you will get some signal degradation. "But stuff like that didn't bother Hendrix!" True bypass means the input jack of the pedal goes to the output jack upon bypassing. Buffered bypass means there is a "buffer" which is meant to help the signal go through long cable runs (as true bypass pedals IN bypass are essentially cabling, along with your patch cables).

The best way to see if it will bother you is to hook up your board how you want (with the Ibanez and Rocktron unit) and hit the bypass switch on all of it and hear what the guitar sounds like, through the bypassed pedals, into the amp. Then plug the guitar directly into the amp and see what that is like. If it is too little a difference for you to care about or you can correct it with a control somewhere, don't worry about it. If it is a big enough difference for you to worry about, get true bypass replacements or mod the pedals to be true bypass. The Boss Buffer will help in that regard, and I think there is something bad about having too many buffers as well.
Last edited by Will Lane at Aug 11, 2016,
#11
Pedals don't necessarily advertise being buffered. I think some of the responses here seem to imply that if there's no statement, the pedal is neither buffered nor true bypass, which is increasingly rare.

The pedals you have may indeed be hardwire bypass, but it's not correct to assume that they are just because the ads don't mention buffered bypass. True bypass is a selling point, buffered isn't (usually). Boss pedals for example are almost always buffered but they rarely if ever mention this in ad copy.
#12
Will Lane I did the test you mentioned a little while back to see if I needed to buy a buffer for my board and couldn't hear any difference, but as with food, sometimes I don't know what is missing or present that makes it good or bad, so really nailing tone has been quite the learning experience. I have a pretty low quality 1980s peavey so all in all, I don't expect amazing sounds from it. So if it is neither, than just assume it behaves similar to a cable of varying capacitance. Thanks for the information all!
#13
take the power supply out of it. if it doesn't work without a power supply (when bypassed, I mean) then odds are it's buffered.
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#14
Quote by Dave_Mc
take the power supply out of it. if it doesn't work without a power supply (when bypassed, I mean) then odds are it's buffered.



as dumb as it sounds i have never thought of it like that. that is so refreshingly simple.

i always made it more complex i guess, i have always used meters and circuit analysis and other means.
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#15
Dave_Mc Does hardware bypass have the same effect? It may be presumptuous to assume there is a buffer if no signal passes.(maybe?) That is the idea of my original question about the third type that no one seems to talk about.
#16
^ well, it sort of depends. Again, it'll be like the true bypass thing- "odds are" it's buffered if you take the power supply and you get no sound. but these days they sometimes use relays for true bypass and that requires power- some of the ones i've tried revert to bypass when there's no power, but i don't know if that happens with all of them. perhaps a better way to put it is that if you do get signal in bypass mode when there's no power attached, that the pedal isn't buffered. pretty much as trashed said, the only way to be sure is to trace the circuit (or else ask someone else who has, most of the popular pedals we know what type of bypass they have).

half-assed bypass works the same way as true- assuming it's not being run on a relay system, if it's being run with a regular stomp switch (normally dpdt) then it will still pass signal in bypass mode even if there's no power supply attached.

Quote by trashedlostfdup
as dumb as it sounds i have never thought of it like that. that is so refreshingly simple.

i always made it more complex i guess, i have always used meters and circuit analysis and other means.


i certainly didn't think of that myself, someone told me online at some point
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

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Et tu, br00tz?