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#1
I have an idea. I don't know, if it is good or not.

But i need a strat and guitar with humbucker in bridge, for when i play heavey.

Then i thought: I could have a strat and put two singlecoils side by side in bridge. That way i still have a good strat singlecoil, wich is the most important, because i would be using it more, and humbucker mode mostly will be with heavey distortion, wich i think would cover the sound of the pickup. That way i don't need to use money on a humbucker guitar.

So my question is:

If you put two singlecoils side by side and use them as a humbucker, will the sound be okay or will it be bad?

There is also the thing, that two pickups side by side will change the magnetic field, but how much will it affect the sound? Is it worth mentioning?

Aside from that i could also use a split humbucker.

Like the Seymour Duncan P-Rails. But does the rail coil sound close to a strat singlecoil? I have heard it has more output. Is that right? That would mean, it is less bright and sharp sounding. But i like the bright/sharp sound, so it must not be so bassy and midrangy, that it does'nt sound sharp anymore.

Or is there other split humbuckers with a good singlecoil sound without lacking brightness/sharpness?
#2
FWIW, there are three output levels of P-Rail. SD has designated which it thinks are neck and which it thinks are bridge pickups, but what I ended up with didn't quite agree with their choices .

People have tried up to three single coils in a single position (bridge or neck) that I've seen. You also want to be aware that there are single-coil size humbuckers (both stacked and side-by-side coils) that can be split and whose size doesn't affect the overall magnetic field the way that a standard size humbucker will.
#3
also there are pickups (which i haven't tried) which are humbuckers made more like single coils, for a similar idea- e.g. the duncan stag mag.

the big problem i can think of (as i said, I haven't tried them) is that they'll likely improve the single coil sound but make the humbucker sound worse. whereas if you use a regular humbucker and split it the humbucker sound is authentic but the single coil isn't.

there are a few other tricks you can try as well (resistors etc.) that i'm sure you can find some info on if you google (again, i haven't tried them)
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

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#4
Rio Grande makes at least two HBs which are actually a pair of singlecoils in a standard HB housing- the Dirty Harry $ Dirty Harry Jr- so that when split, you get a true sc sound. The catch: the sc in question is their (excellent) sc-sized P90. That means that when split, you're still getting a bit more oompfh than a standard singlecoil. Still, a good option. And even if they don't offer a standard sc-based HB along the lines of the Dirty Harry in their production line, Rio Grande DOES do custom work.

Dean Zelinsky Private Label's Sidewinder pickup is the same idea, but with traditional singlecoils as the base. But I don't think they sell the Sidewinder directly.

Vintage Vibe is a custom winder that could do something like that, too, probably with excellent results.

I'm sure there are more...
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#5
The Rio Grande Tallboy humbucker is their version with two strat singles in a humbucker housing.

The P-rails is a very hot modern rail single coil when split, so it's not going to sound a whole lot like a standard Strat bridge pickup. It's also fairly dark, so I'd advise against it. The Tallboy sounds like it might do what you want.

While strat pickups look like half a humbucker, there are some rather important differences under the hood which is why this isn't as easy to solve as it might sound.
#6
Thanks Roc- I had forgotten that. That bit of info may come in handy...
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#7
Footnote for future reference: the Tallboy only comes in F spacing*- as in, for guitars with Fender style bridges/string spacing. The Halfbreed is a hotter version of the Tallboy, but is also available in G (Gibson) spacing.


* though, as noted, RG does do custom pickup building, so...
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#8
Lace Sensor has a pickup that is exactly what you describe. it was used in the Jeff Beck sig strat for the first couple of years it was made (early 90s) you won't have the string pull issues wit LS pups so give them a look.
#9
You could rout it sort of like a tilted humbucker, then put a singlecoil and a singlecoil-sized humbucker in the slot, like so:
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#11
Quote by monwobobbo
Lace Sensor has a pickup that is exactly what you describe. it was used in the Jeff Beck sig strat for the first couple of years it was made (early 90s) you won't have the string pull issues wit LS pups so give them a look.


that was exactly my first thought. i haven't tried one though.

OP - what is your budget?
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****** NEW NEW NEW!
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2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
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Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
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#12
Quote by Roc8995

While strat pickups look like half a humbucker, there are some rather important differences under the hood which is why this isn't as easy to solve as it might sound.


Yep exactly. That's what I sort of implied in my post, but it doesn't hurt to spell it out just in case the OP doesn't realise.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#13
It wouldn't sound right with just two SCs jammed in there together. There would need to be a bar magnet wedged in between them to get that proper humbucking sound, but then that would throw off the SC sound.
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#15
Quote by dannyalcatraz
Footnote for future reference: the Tallboy only comes in F spacing*- as in, for guitars with Fender style bridges/string spacing. The Halfbreed is a hotter version of the Tallboy, but is also available in G (Gibson) spacing.


* though, as noted, RG does do custom pickup building, so...

Spacing doesn't have any discernible impact on tone - the difference is really just cosmetic [so the strings line up over the magnets].
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#16
Quote by K33nbl4d3
You could rout it sort of like a tilted humbucker, then put a singlecoil and a singlecoil-sized humbucker in the slot, like so:
Not to yell over people or anything, but I'd just like to point out that if you go down this route you don't have to make any compromises - you can switch between a "proper" humbucker and a "proper" singlecoil - whichever one of each you want.
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#17
And if you have that guitar, you can also slice tomatoes.
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Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#18
Quote by dannyalcatraz
And if you have that guitar, you can also slice tomatoes.


Which means you could serve as a sous-chef for the Vegan Black Metal Chef!
Maybe be featured in his new Seitanic cookbook!

#19
He does some of the blackest of black bean soups.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#20
What about a coil tapped SSH Strat? So you can just push a knob in or out for the Single coup or humbuckers sound?
Try adding more delay.
#21
Quote by dannyalcatraz
And if you have that guitar, you can also slice tomatoes.
I think that's a fair thing to expect given how much we all spend on these silly contraptions.

Quote by telecastrmastr
What about a coil tapped SSH Strat? So you can just push a knob in or out for the Single coup or humbuckers sound?
I think that was more or less implied to be an idea already rejected before OP made this thread. A split humbucker sounds more like a singlecoil than a non-split humbucker but it doesn't really sound like a Strat pickup.
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#22
K33nbl4d3

I've seen it argued that if you use a humbucker with alnico slugs rather than a bar magnet and iron poles, it will sound more like a single when split. This is because you are pretty well isolating the active coil.That makes sense to me, though I've never tried it
#23
Well...sure, but now you're back to square one with a humbucker that doesn't have a bar magnet. Plus you may have to deal with increased string pull since two sets of strat magnets are way stronger than a single bucker bar. As discussed throughout the thread, the options are pretty much to compromise a bit one way or the other with the construction of one pickup for both sounds, or use two pickups.

What you're describing is exactly how the Tallboy is made.
#24
Quote by Roc8995
Plus you may have to deal with increased string pull since two sets of strat magnets are way stronger than a single bucker bar.


I'd like to see some data on that. There is a fairly low limit to how much magnetic flux alnico can carry, compared to the amount that iron slugs can. - So if you stick a hot ceramic under them, you can get a strong magnetic field. The hot ceramic humbucker the bridge position in my Peavey has substantially more pull that my strat-style SCs. The strong pull isn't a big deal for me in the bridge position (it might be in the middle or neck), and can be managed by altering the pickup height and tilt.

I agree though that it comes back to the "Tallboy" type solution if you're looking for a "two single coil" answer. I personally would be looking at two low output strat SCs mounted side-by-side, and they could be mixed and matched. - But I like fiddling with that kind of thing.
#25
Certainly the humbucker magnet itself is stronger, but it's also farther away, and pull decreases exponentially over distance, even with those slugs shaping the field. I was surprised too the first time I experienced this, but a strat pickup definitely has a stronger pull at the string than most humbuckers. I'm sure there are outliers, but even the JB Junior, which has a strong ceramic magnet packed into a small space, is about even with the average strat/tele pickups I've checked. So yes, there's probably some ceramic humbuckers with more pull than a single strat pickup, but two single coils next to each other is another thing entirely. Not impossible, but I suspect the number of humbuckers out there with more magnet pull than two strat singles (measured at the string) is fairly low.

Fun fact - I've got a piece of metal embedded in one of the fingers on my picking hand - I can feel how strong the magnet pull is from each pickup. Not exactly quantifiable, but it is rather obvious to me which are stronger! Makes it easy to figure out RWRP sets, too.
#26
Quote by Roc8995

Fun fact - I've got a piece of metal embedded in one of the fingers on my picking hand - I can feel how strong the magnet pull is from each pickup. Not exactly quantifiable, but it is rather obvious to me which are stronger! Makes it easy to figure out RWRP sets, too.

So...not quite Steve Austin...

but...The Six Cent Man?
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
Last edited by dannyalcatraz at Aug 19, 2016,
#27
Quote by Roc8995
Fun fact - I've got a piece of metal embedded in one of the fingers on my picking hand - I can feel how strong the magnet pull is from each pickup. Not exactly quantifiable, but it is rather obvious to me which are stronger! Makes it easy to figure out RWRP sets, too.



haha. colin has superpowers.
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youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#28
Hey! I bet we float him in a pool, and he'll point to the earth's magnetic pole!

Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
Last edited by dannyalcatraz at Aug 19, 2016,
#29
Oh yeah, basically Magneto, if he were the world's worst guitar/amp tech.
#30
Quote by Roc8995

Fun fact - I've got a piece of metal embedded in one of the fingers on my picking hand - I can feel how strong the magnet pull is from each pickup. Not exactly quantifiable, but it is rather obvious to me which are stronger! Makes it easy to figure out RWRP sets, too.



How can I argue with that.
#31
I mean, it's not impossible that the narrower focused field of the single coils has less total flux than the wider one of the humbucker, such that there's more pull over the length of the string. But that would be hard to measure without some very specialized instruments, and intuitively I'd imagine that the stronger narrower field would be most disruptive. Now I'm thinking about this more - the narrow field from the single coils might cause that warbly sound we associate with badly set up strats, while at the same time having less total flux than a humbucker, precisely because the field is narrowly focused. So you might be right that the humbucker has more overall pull, but it's the shape and distribution of the field that makes single coils more commonly problematic.

I am after all a fairly crude field measuring device. Plus, your specific pickups may indeed be as strong as you say - I'd have to feel them
#32
"It's OK- he just wants to feel your flux..."
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#33
Hey, certain parts of me are quite attractive in the right conditions...like an MRI.
#34
Quote by Roc8995
Well...sure, but now you're back to square one with a humbucker that doesn't have a bar magnet. Plus you may have to deal with increased string pull since two sets of strat magnets are way stronger than a single bucker bar. As discussed throughout the thread, the options are pretty much to compromise a bit one way or the other with the construction of one pickup for both sounds, or use two pickups.


yeah pretty much

and lol at the metal in your finger
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#35
Methinks someone is a T1000...
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#36
Sounds like to singlecoils side by side or a split humbucker is a bad idea. I wont do it that way then.

But good idea with a singlecoil-sized humbucker besides a singlecoil. Why did'nt i think of that.

Then the question is: Putting a humbucker besides a singlecoil will change the magnetic field. But how much will it affect the sound?
#37
Tony Done
Went to Guitar Center the other day and checked a bunch of their pickups - you are absolutely correct. All the hot pickups I'd previously checked seem to have been overwound but did not use a particularly strong magnet. Some of the unusual or specialty or super hot ceramics I tried had far more string pull.

For example, a JB is a very hot pickup, but the magnets aren't especially strong. Even the hot ceramic Duncan Designed pickups don't seem to be much stronger than your average PAF type. A Lawrence L500 on the other hand is roughly as hot as a JB but the pull at the strings is massive! So there are definitely some pickups out there with pull that compares to or exceeds what you'd get from two strat pickups in a humbucker route.
#38
Thumbs up for empiricism!
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#39
Roc8995
Did you use your cyborg finger for the measurements?
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#40
Yes. It's hard to say "measurement" precisely because there's no actual numerical data produced. But as far as sensing the relative strength of fields it works quite well. The Lawrence pickup actually hurt a bit, it had a lot of tug and it was close to the strings so it gave me a bit of a surprise.

There are some halfway decent detecting apps that use your phone's built in magnetometer, so if you had a way of ensuring that all the measurements were done with the same geometry and axis it may be possible to get some decent hard data just with a phone.
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