#1
Hey all, sorry if this is a silly question but I haven't been able to find much help from elsewhere and I wondered if anyone here might be able to shed some light on this situation for me.

I have a Custom Shop Jackson RR1 (with floating Floyd Rose and EMG 81/60 set) tuned to C# Standard (C# F# B E G# C#) with 4 standard springs holding the bridge in place. I'm using Elixir 11-56 strings on there since it's tuned pretty low. My problem is that the tone of the guitar seems (to me) to be very mushy and undefined. I've isolated the problem to the bridge, but I'm not actually sure how to fix it.

After trying heavier strings which didn't really make a difference, I've tried looking at the Fu-Tone high tension springs. Recently they brought out a wider range of springs that go up to 'super heavy duty' which I would have thought would stiffen the bridge out a little and tighten up the sound, but Adam Revier seems to say that if the heavy duty springs are installed correctly, it won't actually make any difference to the feel or sound. This seems to defeat the entire purpose of these springs to me, but coming from the head of Fu-Tone it's left me a little confused.

I guess my question is: is there a way to tighten up the sound of a Floyd Rose bridge, and if so, would extra spring tension be the way to do it?

To try to help out as much as I can, the rig I'm using is:

Jackson RR1 (EMG 81/60)
Mesa Mark V:25
Mesa 2x12 Rectifier Cab
Boss Ch-1 in the effects loop

Any help is extremely appreciated!
#2
How does putting heavier springs in the back of the guitar 'tighten' the sound of the guitar? Please explain to me how that works because that makes no sense.

Of course the heavier springs are going to feel the same. as regular springs. Assuming the bridge is level as it should be, the amount of tension they exert in reaction to the strings is going to be exactly the same as regular springs. That's just simple physics. If the springs exerted any more force against the bridge than the bridge would no longer be level.

I'm not quite sure how you've been able to set up a Floyd this entire time without knowing that.

The sole purpose of the heaver springs is to allow you use a higher tension setup through means of a heavier gauge of string and/or a higher tuning. It's got nothing to do with tone.
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Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE at Aug 15, 2016,
#3
Quote by JDR3009
Hey all, sorry if this is a silly question but I haven't been able to find much help from elsewhere and I wondered if anyone here might be able to shed some light on this situation for me.

I have a Custom Shop Jackson RR1 (with floating Floyd Rose and EMG 81/60 set) tuned to C# Standard (C# F# B E G# C#) with 4 standard springs holding the bridge in place. I'm using Elixir 11-56 strings on there since it's tuned pretty low. My problem is that the tone of the guitar seems (to me) to be very mushy and undefined. I've isolated the problem to the bridge, but I'm not actually sure how to fix it.

After trying heavier strings which didn't really make a difference, I've tried looking at the Fu-Tone high tension springs. Recently they brought out a wider range of springs that go up to 'super heavy duty' which I would have thought would stiffen the bridge out a little and tighten up the sound, but Adam Revier seems to say that if the heavy duty springs are installed correctly, it won't actually make any difference to the feel or sound. This seems to defeat the entire purpose of these springs to me, but coming from the head of Fu-Tone it's left me a little confused.

I guess my question is: is there a way to tighten up the sound of a Floyd Rose bridge, and if so, would extra spring tension be the way to do it?

To try to help out as much as I can, the rig I'm using is:

Jackson RR1 (EMG 81/60)
Mesa Mark V:25
Mesa 2x12 Rectifier Cab
Boss Ch-1 in the effects loop

Any help is extremely appreciated!


If you are looking to improve your tone via the Floyd a better sustain block will be the best way, they are available from several manufacturers including Floyd Rose and F.U.Tone (I'm surprised Adam didn't turn you on to them) they are available in different metals as well like brass, copper, titanium and even stone all of which will affect your tone in different ways, I use brass big blocks on my Floyds and they make a noticable difference in tone warmer and fatter and they increase sustain as well.
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#4
I can see the correlation between the heavier springs and a tighter tone coming from the strings, but I'm not sure if that is what is making your tone undefined and mushy. Can you post a clip of what your rig sounds like? That would help us determine what is the actual cause. Because it can be anything from old strings, to an old battery in your EMG's.
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#5
Have you checked your pickup height? If your pickups are too low and leaving too big of a gap between the pickup and the strings your tone will suffer and can be fixed with an adjustment, low pickups can be less defined and muddy sounding.

If your pickups are direct mount and too low then you may have to put something under them to act as a spacer, I had this issue on a direct mount Washburn and placed some fairly dense foam under the pickups it was firm enough to give the pickups a solid feel yet soft enough to compress which allows me somewhat limited adjustability but the guitar sounds so much better.
"A well-wound coil is a well-wound coil regardless if it's wound with professional equipment, or if somebody's great-grandmother winds it to an old French recipe with Napoleon's modified coffee grinder and chops off the wire after a mile with an antique guillotine!"
- Bill Lawrence

Come and be with me
Live my twisted dream
Pro devoted pledge
Time for primal concrete sledge

#6
Quote by JDR3009


I have a Custom Shop Jackson RR1 (with floating Floyd Rose and EMG 81/60 set) tuned to C# Standard (C# F# B E G# C#) with 4 standard springs holding the bridge in place. I'm using Elixir 11-56 strings on there since it's tuned pretty low. My problem is that the tone of the guitar seems (to me) to be very mushy and undefined. I've isolated the problem to the bridge, but I'm not actually sure how to fix it.


How, exactly, did you isolate the problem to the bridge?
I don't think this is a bridge issue.
Probably more likely an issue with the ability of your amp/speaker cabinet to reproduce C# standard.

If your bridge is horizontal and the springs are balanced with the strings, higher tension springs aren't going to do anything to help your sound.
What's happening is that the speakers/speakercabinet can't reproduce a C# fundamental (that's a 69Hz note and most guitar speakers drop off pretty quickly below 110Hz), so you're hearing a set of harmonics that *indicate* that sound to your ear. It's a bit like listening to an AM radio rendition of a tune compared to hearing it in person. Further, that Mesa is likely unable to provide enough power to produce the sound if the speaker were capable. It gets worse if you're using the amp on the 10W setting.
#7
See if you can use a different guitar with the same rig otherwise and see how that sounds. It could be the amp as the users above have said. The floyd may not have much to do with it unless the saddles aren't adjusted properly. I'm a floyd owner myself and they're typically a pain in the ass, but once I have mine set up and tuned exactly how I like it (3 springs, horizontal, low action) and it sounds great despite my crappy Jackson stock pickups. If the second guitar still sounds mushy then it's your amp, if it's great it's something with your Jackson, but it may not necessarily be the bridge. It could be the electronics as well
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#8
Quote by dspellman
How, exactly, did you isolate the problem to the bridge?
I don't think this is a bridge issue.
Probably more likely an issue with the ability of your amp/speaker cabinet to reproduce C# standard.
.


i also don't see how the problem was isolated to the bridge either.

from a physics point i agree. however i (on occasion) and thousands of bands have ran even lower frequencies through an amp and haven't had that problem.

a trem block could be a solution. it depends on *what* it has in there now though.

JDR3009 is it dull sounding acoustically or through an amp?
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#9
Quote by trashedlostfdup


from a physics point i agree. however i (on occasion) and thousands of bands have ran even lower frequencies through an amp and haven't had that problem.


As always, "depenz." It depends on your ears, your gear, etc.

Steve Lukather hated how his 7-string sounded and had ISP Technologies develop the Vector SL, which is a very cool subwoofer designed with a single 15" driver in a ported cabinet with a built-in 600W amp and electronics that stripped the mids/highs from his 100W tube amp signal and fed them back to his 4x12, which handled them just fine. ISP Technologies also has a 4x12-size cabinet that has a pair of standard 12" guitar speakers arranged vertically (better sound distribution width-wise) and the Vector SL tech (but with a 400W power amp built in) 15" driver in a separate, closed and ported compartment. It *looks* like everyone else's 4x12, but it sure doesn't perform like it.

I wanted some clean bass out of my cabinets, so I built a pair of 2x12s with Eminence Delta ProA speakers (each one capable of 52Hz and 400W power handling) in a properly sized closed-back ported cabinet (these also had a pair of piezo tweeters each to extend that range above 1800Hz). I powered the pair with a 100W stereo tube amp and a 2:90, but eventually went to a stereo 1500W power amp. That seriously worked.

I've worked with several bands now who use traditional amps onstage, but whose signal is actually going to a load box/cab sim setup that runs out directly to the PA. The wider PA range (especially if you're running subs) helps a LOT with downtuning bands.

You'll also find that some extra scale length (27", 28.65") will help with lower end clarity, as will running a single-coil size pickup in the neck if you're trying to use the neck pickup as your primary.