#1
Hello there
So as the name of the thread says, I got a down tuned guitar to baritone ( with Seymour Duncan Pegasus & Sentient humbuckers ) and Im looking for a decent amp, or half-stack that would catch all those frequencies. And on my second guitar I got active humbuckers with standard tuning.
My budget is somwhere around 700-800. And my gender is metal .

I have been looking for some options.

If I should go for combos I would go for Marshall DSL40C or Blackstar HT-Club 40 Venue . But im kind of worried if I would the sound will be okay, I have seen some videos on yt and the marshall had some problems with down-tuned guitars.

And the I have been looking for some of the small heads like Jet City Amplification 100HDM,Orange Dark Terror Head,Randall RD 20 H Head or Peavey 6505 Mini Head. And pair it with a 2x12 cab with celestion vintage 30. Or maybe somenthing else.

I don't have a clue what would sound the best with those heads, that's why Im asking. Or if going for a combo would be the best in this price range.

This is my first "bigger" purchase, for now I have been going on with Marshall MG15cfx, but that is not enough for small gigs and band practice.

Thanks for help
#2
Two things to consider:

1.) Most "guitar speakers" drop off rapidly below 110Hz. For reference, the low E string on a standard six is ~82Hz, the A string on a standard six is right at 110Hz.
2.) It takes four times as much power to reproduce a sound an octave below your current frequency at the same volume level.

Your low B string is around 61.74 Hz on a Baritone (depending on how you've tuned it -- a fifth lower actually starts at A D G C E A, which would put the low A string at around 55 hz).

I built a pair of properly sized, closed back, ported 2x12s with Eminence Delta Pro 12A speakers, which have a resonant frequency of 52Hz in the right cabinet, and which handle up to 400W of power. There are plans online. The speakers aren't much more expensive than a Vintage 30 but they have much larger voice coils and magnets. I powered them with a 1500W Carvin HD1500 power amp, and I used line 6 Pods as my preamp. The power amp is under $300, a used Pod is whatever you can find it for. I can tell you that this absolutely works, and I can tell you which *more* expensive options work, but this was about the least expensive that I've found that will really get the job done.
#5
Quote by dspellman
Two things to consider:

1.) Most "guitar speakers" drop off rapidly below 110Hz. For reference, the low E string on a standard six is ~82Hz, the A string on a standard six is right at 110Hz.
2.) It takes four times as much power to reproduce a sound an octave below your current frequency at the same volume level.

Your low B string is around 61.74 Hz on a Baritone (depending on how you've tuned it -- a fifth lower actually starts at A D G C E A, which would put the low A string at around 55 hz).

This is true. A lot of the low end from guitars is the cab resonating because god knows the speakers don't reproduce it that well. Which is interesting, you know - a 12" speaker should by all means be able to reproduce stuff down to like, 30hz with almost no trouble in a 2 way or 3 way system. But guitar speakers are weird. Bass cabs use 10" speakers with much stiffer cones (seriously, I've seen aluminum, kevlar, etc) and go much lower.

OP: Mesa 2x12 with Vintage 30s. It'll do fine with low tunings. Source: I use V30s for metal constantly in stupid low tunings (see: Drop Ab on 7 string guitars) and they have plenty of low end response.
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Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
Last edited by oneblackened at Aug 18, 2016,
#6
I'll have to keep this thread in mind, since I'm thinking about getting a baritone to play in a downtuned version of NST.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#7
Mesa Boogie would be great, but that out of my price range since I need a head and cabinet for 700-800 together.

Quote by dspellman


I built a pair of properly sized, closed back, ported 2x12s with Eminence Delta Pro 12A speakers, which have a resonant frequency of 52Hz in the right cabinet, and which handle up to 400W of power. There are plans online. The speakers aren't much more expensive than a Vintage 30 but they have much larger voice coils and magnets. I powered them with a 1500W Carvin HD1500 power amp, and I used line 6 Pods as my preamp. The power amp is under $300, a used Pod is whatever you can find it for. I can tell you that this absolutely works, and I can tell you which *more* expensive options work, but this was about the least expensive that I've found that will really get the job done.



I would try this, but I'm really new to those things, so what would I need to buy, 2x of those Eminence Delta Pros, and do I really need 1500w power amp ? Is there a more "affordable" power amp for my needs ? Or is the 1500w the best choice.
#8
Quote by oneblackened
This is true. A lot of the low end from guitars is the cab resonating because god knows the speakers don't reproduce it that well. Which is interesting, you know - a 12" speaker should by all means be able to reproduce stuff down to like, 30hz with almost no trouble in a 2 way or 3 way system. But guitar speakers are weird. Bass cabs use 10" speakers with much stiffer cones (seriously, I've seen aluminum, kevlar, etc) and go much lower.

OP: Mesa 2x12 with Vintage 30s. It'll do fine with low tunings. Source: I use V30s for metal constantly in stupid low tunings (see: Drop Ab on 7 string guitars) and they have plenty of low end response.


Just one question here, do the pickups matter ? Because in one guitar I have passive Seymour Duncan Pegasus & Sentient, but I want to sell that guitar, I dont like the neck, and the only one which would be great for me already has actives - EMG 81 and 60. And I'm kind of worried if the active pickup would be a good combination with the low tuning.
#9
The pickups are fine. But as far as getting a full setup for 700 (i dunno if you are talking about € of $), if you are from europe, your best bet is getting a JetCity head and one of those harley benton vintage 30 cabs. And an overdrive pedal to tighten the amp up a bit. I used to run my 7 string that i keep in dropA into a JCA50 with a randall cab with vintage 30s and it was plenty loud and pretty defined. So id go for that.
Joža je kul. On ma sirove z dodatki pa hambije.
#10
Quote by gorkyporky
The pickups are fine. But as far as getting a full setup for 700 (i dunno if you are talking about € of $), if you are from europe, your best bet is getting a JetCity head and one of those harley benton vintage 30 cabs. And an overdrive pedal to tighten the amp up a bit. I used to run my 7 string that i keep in dropA into a JCA50 with a randall cab with vintage 30s and it was plenty loud and pretty defined. So id go for that.


Im from Europe, so its € for me, that's what im asking I was reading reviews or those small heads and I dont really know what would be a good one. I have got an overidrive predal already, electro-harmonix metal buff .

As dspellman wrote ;
Quote by dspellman
Two things to consider:


I built a pair of properly sized, closed back, ported 2x12s with Eminence Delta Pro 12A speakers, which have a resonant frequency of 52Hz in the right cabinet, and which handle up to 400W of power. There are plans online. The speakers aren't much more expensive than a Vintage 30 but they have much larger voice coils and magnets. I powered them with a 1500W Carvin HD1500 power amp, and I used line 6 Pods as my preamp. The power amp is under $300, a used Pod is whatever you can find it for. I can tell you that this absolutely works, and I can tell you which *more* expensive options work, but this was about the least expensive that I've found that will really get the job done.



Im curious if it would be possible to buy the cheapest cabinet out there and then buy those Eminence Delta Pro 12A, and put it into that cab. Or are there any "empty" cabs that I could buy and put my own speakers in there ? I have been searching and nothing found.
#11
Quote by hornsternn1

Im curious if it would be possible to buy the cheapest cabinet out there and then buy those Eminence Delta Pro 12A, and put it into that cab. Or are there any "empty" cabs that I could buy and put my own speakers in there ? I have been searching and nothing found.


The Deltas will work most of the places that an EV-L will work, but if you're after best bottom end response, the size of the cabinet (and the porting) is an issue. Here are the exact plans for what I built, and I built mine exactly as shown. You can leave off the tweeters, of course, but don't reduce the size of the cabinet and definitely do find the correct port "pipe" pieces (not a big deal) - don't just leave holes. You also don't want to have the back be a single panel (it will vibrate at an audible frequency that you won't like). Any decent cabinet builder or carpenter should be able to knock these up. I'd recommend using a good glue like Loctite's Premium PL, to hold everything together and seal things up. And rather than the "mouse fur" the author uses to cover these with, find some Acrytech Duratex (goes on with a small roller, is a rubberized textured paint that really holds up and looks like tolex) coating. Cheap and really good and exactly what gets used in the Pro Audio business these days. I actually took mine to a LineX dealer (it's a well-known pickup truck bed liner that goes on hot in two parts and is really brutally strong) and had the cabinets back in the car about 45 minutes later. It takes about 24 hours for everything to set up properly, but it's able to be handled as soon as it's cooled down. Adds about 1/4" thickness to all panels, so you'll want to protect any non-exterior areas with tape, etc.

http://www.colomar.com/Shavano/stereocab.html
#12
Quote by hornsternn1

I would try this, but I'm really new to those things, so what would I need to buy, 2x of those Eminence Delta Pros, and do I really need 1500w power amp ? Is there a more "affordable" power amp for my needs ? Or is the 1500w the best choice.


There are a lot of options out there. The Carvin 1500W was my choice for a lot of reasons. It was quickly available. I had two cabinets (thus, four speakers to feed), it was relatively cheap (1500W for $300). It's very light (9 lbs). I'd previously used a 25-lb 100W (50W/50W) tube power amp, but that particular one is nearly $600 and really didn't have enough power to make the speakers do their thing at the bottom end. I also ran Marshall and Mesa 180-200W power amps, but those things are expensive and even heavier. You may be able to find a 500-800W (RMS! not "peak" or "program" watts) solid state power amp where you are for cheap. In any case, you're still going to be using something like a Pod as a front end.
#13
Quote by dspellman
The Deltas will work most of the places that an EV-L will work, but if you're after best bottom end response, the size of the cabinet (and the porting) is an issue. Here are the exact plans for what I built, and I built mine exactly as shown. You can leave off the tweeters, of course, but don't reduce the size of the cabinet and definitely do find the correct port "pipe" pieces (not a big deal) - don't just leave holes. You also don't want to have the back be a single panel (it will vibrate at an audible frequency that you won't like). Any decent cabinet builder or carpenter should be able to knock these up. I'd recommend using a good glue like Loctite's Premium PL, to hold everything together and seal things up. And rather than the "mouse fur" the author uses to cover these with, find some Acrytech Duratex (goes on with a small roller, is a rubberized textured paint that really holds up and looks like tolex) coating. Cheap and really good and exactly what gets used in the Pro Audio business these days. I actually took mine to a LineX dealer (it's a well-known pickup truck bed liner that goes on hot in two parts and is really brutally strong) and had the cabinets back in the car about 45 minutes later. It takes about 24 hours for everything to set up properly, but it's able to be handled as soon as it's cooled down. Adds about 1/4" thickness to all panels, so you'll want to protect any non-exterior areas with tape, etc.

http://www.colomar.com/Shavano/stereocab.html


Thank you very much for those information, I'm going ask some friends if it would be possible to build this, since I don't have anything required to build all of this. It seems it would be best to have one of those.

But if I would not be able to build this cab. , what cab would you recommend me to buy ( I take things from thomann ) ?