#1
hello I'd like to know how I can start teaching guitar..
I learned by myself and don't know much theory


here's a video of me playing.
do you think I could teach??
and how would I find students and what should I teach them??
Last edited by joaof9826 at Aug 20, 2016,
#2
Your hand position looks a bit awkward, and considering that you don't know theory, I don't think you should really start teaching right now. Maybe take some lessons to make sure you know what's correct technique and what isn't, and learn some theory.

As a teacher you need to be a versatile musician (know a lot of music styles and just be a good all around musician), you need to have a really good grasp of the basics and you need to know what is proper technique and what isn't (because if you teach your students "incorrect" technique, that may be harmful for them in the long run). At least knowing the basics of music theory is important. If your students have some questions, you want to be able to answer them.

And remember that some things you take for granted may be difficult to your students. You need to be able to adapt to different situations well and you also need to be good at working with different people.

You could start teaching some of your friends for free to see what it's like. But yeah, I would also suggest taking some lessons, join a band (if you don't play in one yet - it will improve your musicianship, and I think as a teacher you need to have good "basic musician skills"), learn about different music styles, learn some theory and get familiar with different guitar teaching methods.


Nothing wrong with your playing, but I'm just wondering how versatile you are as a musician. Do you play other styles? Do you play some more technically demanding stuff? Do you have a good knowledge of the fretboard (do you know chords and scales all over the fretboard and do you know the note names)? How is your ear (do you learn songs by ear)?
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
Last edited by MaggaraMarine at Aug 20, 2016,
#3
Quote by MaggaraMarine
Your hand position looks a bit awkward, and considering that you don't know theory, I don't think you should really start teaching right now. Maybe take some lessons to make sure you know what's correct technique and what isn't, and learn some theory.

As a teacher you need to be a versatile musician (know a lot of music styles and just be a good all around musician), you need to have a really good grasp of the basics and you need to know what is proper technique and what isn't (because if you teach your students "incorrect" technique, that may be harmful for them in the long run). At least knowing the basics of music theory is important. If your students have some questions, you want to be able to answer them.

And remember that some things you take for granted may be difficult to your students. You need to be able to adapt to different situations well and you also need to be good at working with different people.

You could start teaching some of your friends for free to see what it's like. But yeah, I would also suggest taking some lessons, join a band (if you don't play in one yet - it will improve your musicianship, and I think as a teacher you need to have good "basic musician skills"), learn about different music styles, learn some theory and get familiar with different guitar teaching methods.


Nothing wrong with your playing, but I'm just wondering how versatile you are as a musician. Do you play other styles? Do you play some more technically demanding stuff? Do you have a good knowledge of the fretboard (do you know chords and scales all over the fretboard and do you know the note names)? How is your ear (do you learn songs by ear)?


Yes I've noticed my left hand looks weird when I'm playing, I'm in a band yes, I don't know what you mean by other styles?,I can play pretty much anything I want to on guitar, like beethoven's 5th symphony, moonlight sonata, yngwie malmsteen baroque and roll, paganini 5th the 2 latter I don't play perfectly though. Not really interested in virtuoso type stuff I just like writing melodic original music
I pretty much know the freatboard ,I can figure out the scales on the chords I'm playing and find the other chords from that since it doesn't really vary much, but If I were to play on the whole fretboard I wouldn't have it all figured from the start I would have to find it out as I'm playing.
I learned by ear and I can play lots of things after hearing them once I have a harder time with some chords though.
about knowing the note names I do pretty much I don't really focus my mind on that, I can always check that on the internet it hasn't been of any significance to me knowing if I'm playing C or D, but it's pretty much the root note and the fret that tells you if its a C or a D and the rest tells you if its minor or major right?

But as for teaching you might be right since I had no teacher I wouldn't know what I would teach, But I'm not interested in taking lessons anyway
#4
Quote by joaof9826
Yes I've noticed my left hand looks weird when I'm playing, I'm in a band yes, I don't know what you mean by other styles?,I can play pretty much anything I want to on guitar, like beethoven's 5th symphony, moonlight sonata, yngwie malmsteen baroque and roll, paganini 5th the 2 latter I don't play perfectly though. Not really interested in virtuoso type stuff I just like writing melodic original music

Blues, jazz, rock, metal, funk, pop, country, folk... That's what I mean with other styles. Obviously you don't need to have all those styles mastered (I doubt many people have), but knowing the basics of a lot of different styles is good and something I think a teacher should know. It's about being a versatile musician.

I pretty much know the freatboard ,I can figure out the scales on the chords I'm playing and find the other chords from that since it doesn't really vary much, but If I were to play on the whole fretboard I wouldn't have it all figured from the start I would have to find it out as I'm playing.
I learned by ear and I can play lots of things after hearing them once I have a harder time with some chords though.
about knowing the note names I do pretty much I don't really focus my mind on that, I can always check that on the internet it hasn't been of any significance to me knowing if I'm playing C or D, but it's pretty much the root note and the fret that tells you if its a C or a D and the rest tells you if its minor or major right?

This is exactly why theoretical knowledge is important - how are you going to teach fretboard knowledge to your students? How are you going to explain things that happen in music to your students? How are you going to help your students with ear training? The fact that you can play all over the fretboard and have a good ear doesn't mean that you can teach it to other people. This is why the knowledge of scales, chords and note names is important - those are all ways of making it easier to find the notes that you want to play on the fretboard.

But as for teaching you might be right since I had no teacher I wouldn't know what I would teach, But I'm not interested in taking lessons anyway

The thing is, you may need to take some lessons before you become a teacher. If you want to become a teacher, you should learn as much about teaching as possible. Being a teacher is a lot about being committed and passionate about it. May I ask, why are you not interested in taking lessons?
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#5
Quote by MaggaraMarine
Blues, jazz, rock, metal, funk, pop, country, folk... That's what I mean with other styles. Obviously you don't need to have all those styles mastered (I doubt many people have), but knowing the basics of a lot of different styles is good and something I think a teacher should know. It's about being a versatile musician.


This is exactly why theoretical knowledge is important - how are you going to teach fretboard knowledge to your students? How are you going to explain things that happen in music to your students? How are you going to help your students with ear training? The fact that you can play all over the fretboard and have a good ear doesn't mean that you can teach it to other people. This is why the knowledge of scales, chords and note names is important - those are all ways of making it easier to find the notes that you want to play on the fretboard.


The thing is, you may need to take some lessons before you become a teacher. If you want to become a teacher, you should learn as much about teaching as possible. Being a teacher is a lot about being committed and passionate about it. May I ask, why are you not interested in taking lessons?

I can play songs in some of those genres however I'm still confused about what really defines a genre. To me when someone say's they're gonna play a rock song I think they're saying they're gonna rip off someone else's music making them sound a lot like the previous songs in the same "genre" I don't know what makes rock rock or what makes heavy metal heavy metal or what makes pop pop, maybe it has to do with the amount of distortion you use or with the type of instruments used or the singer screaming or singing smoother.

I understand what you mean with theoretical knowledge and why it's important to know it to communicate, but I guess I don't like viewing music from the point of view that, you know, to make it work you have to play this note or that note, as that comes intuitively. You should allow people to hear things for what they are instead of making them create a mind connection with a letter from the alphabet instead of the sounds they hear.

I don't know maybe I could teach myself how to teach a student.
I'm a terrible student, I think I'd always be convinced that I have a better way to do things then my teacher.
I think I would have lost interest if I had started learning from a teacher, and I saw the same thing happen to other people.
My young cousins wanted to learn how to play, but I think the teaching methods we're not perfect, they weren't enjoying the process because they we're not given the freedom to learn to play what they wanted to play, this is my interpretation.
I've seen people who studied a few years with a teacher that hadn't learned how to play even a two or three songs beginning to end, most of my friend's started playing at the same age as me but showed very little development and perhaps lost interest because of the methods used, again my interpretation.
If I we're to teach someone from scratch I'd probably take a different approach, showing them some music and see what they wanted to learn from the beginning, I think theory should be taught later or instead of teaching them the a minor pentatonic by making them play it up and down I could teach them a solo that uses that scale.
#6
Quote by joaof9826
I can play songs in some of those genres however I'm still confused about what really defines a genre. To me when someone say's they're gonna play a rock song I think they're saying they're gonna rip off someone else's music making them sound a lot like the previous songs in the same "genre" I don't know what makes rock rock or what makes heavy metal heavy metal or what makes pop pop, maybe it has to do with the amount of distortion you use or with the type of instruments used or the singer screaming or singing smoother.

Well, the name of the genre is not that important. I mean, a versatile musician can play a lot of different kinds of music and that's what's important, not the exact name of the style of music you are playing. Look up some different genres for example from Wikipedia and listen to some of the most popular artists from those genres. That should give you a good idea of what all the different genres are. The point is, you need to be a versatile musician. Then again, as a teacher you also want to know the names of the genres. It's the same thing with knowing the names of the stuff that you teach - it makes communication easier and it makes the students understand what you are talking about.

BTW, the examples you gave were all classical music/neoclassical metal.

Also, genres are defined by music that already exists. When you are writing music, you don't need to decide to write into a genre. Genres are just a way of classifying music that sounds kind of similar, has similar characteristics. What makes a genre is easier to understand if you just listen to a lot of music that fits a particular genre. That's how you learn to understand genres.

I understand what you mean with theoretical knowledge and why it's important to know it to communicate, but I guess I don't like viewing music from the point of view that, you know, to make it work you have to play this note or that note, as that comes intuitively. You should allow people to hear things for what they are instead of making them create a mind connection with a letter from the alphabet instead of the sounds they hear.

Theory doesn't take the importance of using your ears away. Theory is there to support your ear. Theory just names sounds that you hear. If you play a note, theory has an explanation for it. Theory doesn't tell you what you should/shouldn't do. It just explain music with words. And people usually understand stuff better when it has an explanation.

I don't know maybe I could teach myself how to teach a student.
I'm a terrible student, I think I'd always be convinced that I have a better way to do things then my teacher.
I think I would have lost interest if I had started learning from a teacher, and I saw the same thing happen to other people.
My young cousins wanted to learn how to play, but I think the teaching methods we're not perfect, they weren't enjoying the process because they we're not given the freedom to learn to play what they wanted to play, this is my interpretation.
I've seen people who studied a few years with a teacher that hadn't learned how to play even a two or three songs beginning to end, most of my friend's started playing at the same age as me but showed very little development and perhaps lost interest because of the methods used, again my interpretation.

If this is the way you feel about taking lessons, I don't really completely understand why you would want to be a teacher.

There are good teachers and bad teachers. A teacher is not necessarily somebody that has total control over what you play. It really depends. When it comes to teaching beginners, the teacher needs to be more in control so that people learn things correctly. But when it comes to teaching more advanced players, it's more about what the student him/herself wants to do. It's about their goals. If you started taking lessons, you should take them because you have a goal. The point of having a teacher is to make it easier to achieve your goals.

If I we're to teach someone from scratch I'd probably take a different approach, showing them some music and see what they wanted to learn from the beginning, I think theory should be taught later or instead of teaching them the a minor pentatonic by making them play it up and down I could teach them a solo that uses that scale

Sure. But as I said, in the beginning the teacher needs to be more in control. For example if your student wants to play a Dream Theater song and he obviously is not at that level yet, you really can't let him play that song and you need to play something else first. Obviously the teacher should listen to the student's musical taste and preferences and not just force the student to play a Justin Bieber song or something like that if they don't want to play it. But the thing is, not everything is going to be the most interesting thing in the world and sometimes you need to practice some more boring stuff. What would you even do with a teacher if you already knew exactly the things that you want to learn (and would not want to learn anything else)?

When it comes to theory stuff... Yes, I agree, you don't need to teach theoretic stuff in the beginning. But then again, note names and chord names are also theory. But yeah, it's better to first know something practically before you start learning some more complex theoretic stuff. Theory just will not make any sense if you don't know anything about music first. And yeah, scales should be taught exactly like that - not by just playing them up and down but for example by learning solos that use that scale. It's important to learn them in context. But it's also good to know how to just play the scales (I mean, out of context).

Theory, when taught correctly, will make you see connections between things. For example if you know what the pentatonic scale is and can recognize it in different solos, you can now see a connection between those solos - they are all based on the same scale.


BTW, I'm not trying to be mean or anything and maybe I'm jumping to conclusions here, but the vibe I get from what I have heard in this thread is that you think that knowing about music (theory, genres, having somebody to tell you what to do, that kind of stuff) is somehow bad. I don't like this kind of attitude and I don't think it's an attitude that a teacher should have. Of course correct me if I'm wrong but this is just the vibe I got from your posts.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#7
Back from vacation boissss so I thought I could share some thoughts on this.

Quote by joaof9826
I understand what you mean with theoretical knowledge and why it's important to know it to communicate, but I guess I don't like viewing music from the point of view that, you know, to make it work you have to play this note or that note, as that comes intuitively. You should allow people to hear things for what they are instead of making them create a mind connection with a letter from the alphabet instead of the sounds they hear.


What I gather from this paragraph is that you have a serious misunderstanding of what music theory is. Mags already has a solid explanation but hey, repetition validates.

So, theory is less about rules (see my signature) and more about communication. I think that the reason it is important to teach basic theoretical concepts near the beginning is that it allows you to communicate with your students more effortlessly. Instead of saying "okay, now let's play these chords: Em-Am-D-G", you could just tell your student to play vi-ii-V-I progression in G major, and your student could see the individual functions of the chords more clearly and apply this knowledge to other keys more easily.

Also, even if you don't use the "theoretic names" of certain concepts that doesn't mean you're not using those theoretical concepts. If you play a song in G major, that song is in G major regardless of you understanding it. I see no reason why you shouldn't learn the proper names and the theory behind music when you're using them on a daily basis anyway. You see people use excuses like "Hendrix didn't know any theory" very often but that is frankly a lie. Even if Jimi Hendrix didn't know the names of the chords and intervals he played, he still knew how to use them, and as far as I care that counts as knowing theory. Contrary to what seems to be the popular belief, the point of theory is not to slap a redundant name on everything, but instead it's about analyzing music in order to understand what makes it sound good. It's about understanding, as Mags explained, the connections between things, like notes, intervals, chords and whole songs.

Quote by joaof9826
I don't know maybe I could teach myself how to teach a student.



But are you qualified to teach yourself that? Teaching others is a skill completely separate from your actual musical skill, and "teaching how to teach" is a skill completely separate from that. If my teacher said that "I'm a self taught guitarist and I taught myself how to teach" I'd probably just find a new teacher since that sounds suspicious as hell. If you want to teach, why don't you start studying pedagogy? I'm always kind of dumbfounded by these people who came here and explain that they want to be a professional musician, or a producer, or a composer, or a teacher and when you suggest that they actually study it they say "yeah um I don't think that would work" or even worse, "lel being self taught is kewl". If you want to get a career out of music as a professional, get education.

Quote by joaof9826
If I we're to teach someone from scratch I'd probably take a different approach, showing them some music and see what they wanted to learn from the beginning, I think theory should be taught later or instead of teaching them the a minor pentatonic by making them play it up and down I could teach them a solo that uses that scale.


Is that not what any competent teacher would do? You must have experience with some really bad teachers if you think that's somehow extraordinary. I've had two teachers and we always studied real songs and actual music.

I also don't want to sound negative, but I agree with Mags on that you seem to have a really backwards attitude towards theory and education. I understand that a bad teacher can lead into trust issues towards actual decent teachers, but trust me, theory and education are beyond useful and I would definitely suggest that anyone who wants to learn music properly should get a teacher and study theory. I would even suggest that you should find yourself a good teacher, since you're never too old or too late to have one. And if you really want to teach, start studying, and you might still make a career out of it.
Quote by Jet Penguin
Theory: Not rules, just tools.

Quote by Hail
*note that by fan i mean that guy who wants his friends to know he knows this totally obscure hip band that only he knows about with 236 views on youtube. lookin' at Kev here
#8
If you want to teach music, you should be willing to learn about it as much as possible. If you are not willing to learn, I don't think you should be teaching either. If you don't trust on other people teaching you, why would you expect anybody to trust on your teaching? If you like being 100% self taught and not taking advice from other people, I don't see a point with becoming a teacher. Sure, when learning from other people, of course don't just accept what they say as a 100% fact. But sometimes you need to accept the fact that other people know more than you, and that other people have also thought about this stuff a lot and have come to certain conclusions. They have their reasons for doing things their own way and they are just trying to do what they think is best for you.

And trust me, experienced teachers know what they are doing. They have most likely had many students that have similar goals, similar problems with their technique, similar tastes... They are not trying to take your individuality away, they are trying to support it. Sometimes that also requires doing stuff that you may not enjoy that much, but is beneficial in the long run. Whether you enjoy it or not is actually all up to you and your priorities. If you want to enjoy every single moment of playing your instrument and never play anything that you may find boring, you may never become great at it. But if you enjoy achieving goals and understand that sometimes you just need to do boring technical exercises to achieve them, this will also make those not-that-enjoyable moments more enjoyable because you know why you are doing them and how they are going to help you in the long run.

I'm not forcing you to take lessons. But if you want to become a good teacher, taking lessons first would be really beneficial for you. And you want to make sure that your technique is correct (and that you know what correct technique is) before you start giving lessons to other people. The best and easiest way to learn this is to take lessons. It is much harder to learn on your own.


If you want to be a good teacher, you should really get familiar with different teaching methods and not just think that you have your own ways and people that have actually put a lot of thought into their teaching are doing it wrong and their information is useless or something like that. Sure, be critical of other people's teaching methods but also learn from them.

BTW, when I started teaching theory (two years ago as a part of my studies), I kind of had this arrogant attitude that somehow I'm above all criticism and I have my own ways and BS like that when actually in the beginning I knew very little about teaching (and I had taken lessons before, so it's not like it was completely new to me) - well, this feeling wasn't really that strong, but I do recognize that I did have some of those feelings in the beginning. But then I realized that the people that give me advice do have good points, and they have been doing this longer than I have, so maybe I should listen to their advice more. I don't need to agree with all of it and do everything the way they say, but I should listen to what they have to say and draw my own conclusions from it. To become great, you first need to recognize the fact that you don't know everything. You need to recognize the fact that teaching is not easy. It's not something that you "just do". You need to put a lot of thought into it to become good at it. (Also consider the fact that I'm studying at university so I'm given advice all the time. I don't need to figure it all out on my own so it's easier to me. People challenge me to think all the time and to be critical of what I do.)

I'm not saying you shouldn't criticize traditional methods, because that's also a part of becoming great at teaching - you shouldn't just accept things as they are either and you should put a lot of thought into it (I mean, what methods to use, what are the advantages/disadvantages of different methods, what works for you, etc). But you also need to be self-critical. You need to question other people's methods, but you also need to question your own methods. You can only improve as a teacher if you question yourself and ask questions like "how could I have done this better, how could I improve as a teacher, what can I do to make my students learn as effectively as possible and enjoy playing the guitar as much as possible, etc".

Oh, and you also need to remember that being a teacher is not about expressing yourself as an artist. As a teacher you need to take other people's tastes and preferences into account. You are doing it for other people, not for yourself, and you need to remember to treat your students as individuals. And this is why being a versatile musician and knowing about different styles is important. If somebody wants to learn to play some Justin Bieber, you should also be willing to teach them that and you should know how to play in that style before you start teaching it. And if somebody is more of a logical learner and wants to make sense of everything before they learn it, you should teach them theory. You need to do what's best for your students, not what's best for yourself. Some methods work better for some people and other methods work better for others.


Why I posted this wall of text is because I'm passionate about teaching. This is something I feel strongly about. I want teachers to be good at what they do and always try to improve and find the ways that work best. Teaching is also about learning. So I'm not trying to put you down or anything and don't take this post as criticism because I don't know you well enough to actually criticize you. I just want to challenge you to think. What I'm trying to say is that teaching is something that requires commitment. It also requires being humble and open to criticism and being willing to learn.


But yeah, if you want to see what it's like, start teaching your friend for free.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
Last edited by MaggaraMarine at Aug 21, 2016,
#9
My advice would be to take a teaching course. I started giving private lessons to a friend of a friend, after playing for some 30 years myself (amateur and semi-pro). I found it surprisingly difficult, because I took so much of what I knew for granted. I had to go right back and take it all to pieces, remembering what it was like not to know stuff - and then build the structure back up from scratch.

So I took a 6-month part-time course in teaching music - and learned a whole load of things I'd never thought about. Primarily how to plan lessons, how to assess a student, how to judge how much they're absorbing (and design lessons accordingly) etc. I've been teaching professionally since then (around 12 years now). The main thing you will need to be prepared for is how little you can get across in one lesson, at least with beginners. Narrow your focus right down, and really check the student is understanding.

As a beginner myself, I never had lessons, and felt much the same as you - "I'm a terrible student, I think I'd always be convinced that I have a better way to do things then my teacher." IMO that's quite natural when you're self-taught. I know how I want to play, how can anyone else teach me that? But that's a really bad attitude for a teacher. (I find it a problem even now, wondering why these kids come to me, instead of teaching themselves? Have they no drive of their own??)
Of course, if you're famous, then students might well come to you precisely they want to learn how you play. But you still need to lose the arrogance, because being a good player is not the same as being a good teacher - it's a whole different skill. That's why teaching is a profession.

If you're not famous, if you're just some other guitar-playing dude, what have you got to offer? You need to be right on top of your material, able to demonstrate and explain clearly, understand where the student is coming from, and adjust your teaching accordingly. You need teaching skills, IOW. Like musicianship, you might have it naturally (in part anyway), but more likely you will need to learn it.

So - instead of giving us a video of you playing, it would be much better to give us a video of you teaching something. How well you play is irrelevant! Work out a lesson on something and post it to youtube - see what response you get. Then you will know just how much work you need to do...
Last edited by jongtr at Aug 21, 2016,
#10
Quote by MaggaraMarine
Well, the name of the genre is not that important. I mean, a versatile musician can play a lot of different kinds of music and that's what's important, not the exact name of the style of music you are playing. Look up some different genres for example from Wikipedia and listen to some of the most popular artists from those genres. That should give you a good idea of what all the different genres are. The point is, you need to be a versatile musician. Then again, as a teacher you also want to know the names of the genres. It's the same thing with knowing the names of the stuff that you teach - it makes communication easier and it makes the students understand what you are talking about.

BTW, the examples you gave were all classical music/neoclassical metal.

Also, genres are defined by music that already exists. When you are writing music, you don't need to decide to write into a genre. Genres are just a way of classifying music that sounds kind of similar, has similar characteristics. What makes a genre is easier to understand if you just listen to a lot of music that fits a particular genre. That's how you learn to understand genres.


Theory doesn't take the importance of using your ears away. Theory is there to support your ear. Theory just names sounds that you hear. If you play a note, theory has an explanation for it. Theory doesn't tell you what you should/shouldn't do. It just explain music with words. And people usually understand stuff better when it has an explanation.


If this is the way you feel about taking lessons, I don't really completely understand why you would want to be a teacher.

There are good teachers and bad teachers. A teacher is not necessarily somebody that has total control over what you play. It really depends. When it comes to teaching beginners, the teacher needs to be more in control so that people learn things correctly. But when it comes to teaching more advanced players, it's more about what the student him/herself wants to do. It's about their goals. If you started taking lessons, you should take them because you have a goal. The point of having a teacher is to make it easier to achieve your goals.


Sure. But as I said, in the beginning the teacher needs to be more in control. For example if your student wants to play a Dream Theater song and he obviously is not at that level yet, you really can't let him play that song and you need to play something else first. Obviously the teacher should listen to the student's musical taste and preferences and not just force the student to play a Justin Bieber song or something like that if they don't want to play it. But the thing is, not everything is going to be the most interesting thing in the world and sometimes you need to practice some more boring stuff. What would you even do with a teacher if you already knew exactly the things that you want to learn (and would not want to learn anything else)?

When it comes to theory stuff... Yes, I agree, you don't need to teach theoretic stuff in the beginning. But then again, note names and chord names are also theory. But yeah, it's better to first know something practically before you start learning some more complex theoretic stuff. Theory just will not make any sense if you don't know anything about music first. And yeah, scales should be taught exactly like that - not by just playing them up and down but for example by learning solos that use that scale. It's important to learn them in context. But it's also good to know how to just play the scales (I mean, out of context).

Theory, when taught correctly, will make you see connections between things. For example if you know what the pentatonic scale is and can recognize it in different solos, you can now see a connection between those solos - they are all based on the same scale.


BTW, I'm not trying to be mean or anything and maybe I'm jumping to conclusions here, but the vibe I get from what I have heard in this thread is that you think that knowing about music (theory, genres, having somebody to tell you what to do, that kind of stuff) is somehow bad. I don't like this kind of attitude and I don't think it's an attitude that a teacher should have. Of course correct me if I'm wrong but this is just the vibe I got from your posts.


Tbh I'm not very passionate about teaching I just think I should do something related to music instead of doing a job that has little to do with me, and instead of acquiring new skills I could use the ones I already have.
I'd like to teach a friend for free but I recently moved to another country and don't have any friends.


Quote by jongtr
My advice would be to take a teaching course. I started giving private lessons to a friend of a friend, after playing for some 30 years myself (amateur and semi-pro). I found it surprisingly difficult, because I took so much of what I knew for granted. I had to go right back and take it all to pieces, remembering what it was like not to know stuff - and then build the structure back up from scratch.

So I took a 6-month part-time course in teaching music - and learned a whole load of things I'd never thought about. Primarily how to plan lessons, how to assess a student, how to judge how much they're absorbing (and design lessons accordingly) etc. I've been teaching professionally since then (around 12 years now). The main thing you will need to be prepared for is how little you can get across in one lesson, at least with beginners. Narrow your focus right down, and really check the student is understanding.

As a beginner myself, I never had lessons, and felt much the same as you - "I'm a terrible student, I think I'd always be convinced that I have a better way to do things then my teacher." IMO that's quite natural when you're self-taught. I know how I want to play, how can anyone else teach me that? But that's a really bad attitude for a teacher. (I find it a problem even now, wondering why these kids come to me, instead of teaching themselves? Have they no drive of their own??)
Of course, if you're famous, then students might well come to you precisely they want to learn how you play. But you still need to lose the arrogance, because being a good player is not the same as being a good teacher - it's a whole different skill. That's why teaching is a profession.

If you're not famous, if you're just some other guitar-playing dude, what have you got to offer? You need to be right on top of your material, able to demonstrate and explain clearly, understand where the student is coming from, and adjust your teaching accordingly. You need teaching skills, IOW. Like musicianship, you might have it naturally (in part anyway), but more likely you will need to learn it.

So - instead of giving us a video of you playing, it would be much better to give us a video of you teaching something. How well you play is irrelevant! Work out a lesson on something and post it to youtube - see what response you get. Then you will know just how much work you need to do...


that is also good advice I was thinking of looking at what the guys who teach on youtube do to help beginners like teaching some easy songs and stuff I think I'm gonna try to find someone to teach for free.
being self-taught though might have an advantage as well as you we're learning you definitely knew what worked and what didn't work because when it didn't work you would get frustrated into finding something that worked and if that didn't help, you would learn what motivates you like watching other people play,learn a new song w/e.
what I got to offer, well I don't know I'm still coming from the mindset that people can learn alone, but I'd mostly try to encourage the love of music to keep the student interested, cause in the long run that's what will make him get better, there's is only so much a teacher can do in a one hour lesson, which should be not much really all I can hope is that he returns home with the will to practice
#12
Quote by Kevätuhri
Back from vacation boissss so I thought I could share some thoughts on this.


What I gather from this paragraph is that you have a serious misunderstanding of what music theory is. Mags already has a solid explanation but hey, repetition validates.

So, theory is less about rules (see my signature) and more about communication. I think that the reason it is important to teach basic theoretical concepts near the beginning is that it allows you to communicate with your students more effortlessly. Instead of saying "okay, now let's play these chords: Em-Am-D-G", you could just tell your student to play vi-ii-V-I progression in G major, and your student could see the individual functions of the chords more clearly and apply this knowledge to other keys more easily.

Also, even if you don't use the "theoretic names" of certain concepts that doesn't mean you're not using those theoretical concepts. If you play a song in G major, that song is in G major regardless of you understanding it. I see no reason why you shouldn't learn the proper names and the theory behind music when you're using them on a daily basis anyway. You see people use excuses like "Hendrix didn't know any theory" very often but that is frankly a lie. Even if Jimi Hendrix didn't know the names of the chords and intervals he played, he still knew how to use them, and as far as I care that counts as knowing theory. Contrary to what seems to be the popular belief, the point of theory is not to slap a redundant name on everything, but instead it's about analyzing music in order to understand what makes it sound good. It's about understanding, as Mags explained, the connections between things, like notes, intervals, chords and whole songs.


But are you qualified to teach yourself that? Teaching others is a skill completely separate from your actual musical skill, and "teaching how to teach" is a skill completely separate from that. If my teacher said that "I'm a self taught guitarist and I taught myself how to teach" I'd probably just find a new teacher since that sounds suspicious as hell. If you want to teach, why don't you start studying pedagogy? I'm always kind of dumbfounded by these people who came here and explain that they want to be a professional musician, or a producer, or a composer, or a teacher and when you suggest that they actually study it they say "yeah um I don't think that would work" or even worse, "lel being self taught is kewl". If you want to get a career out of music as a professional, get education.


Is that not what any competent teacher would do? You must have experience with some really bad teachers if you think that's somehow extraordinary. I've had two teachers and we always studied real songs and actual music.

I also don't want to sound negative, but I agree with Mags on that you seem to have a really backwards attitude towards theory and education. I understand that a bad teacher can lead into trust issues towards actual decent teachers, but trust me, theory and education are beyond useful and I would definitely suggest that anyone who wants to learn music properly should get a teacher and study theory. I would even suggest that you should find yourself a good teacher, since you're never too old or too late to have one. And if you really want to teach, start studying, and you might still make a career out of it.

no, you misunderstand I know what music theory is and I probably know quite a lot of it just don't know or think about the names..
I learn better by doing things and don't see the point in going the other way around for me personally. If something intrigues me musically I'll learn what is going on with that tune..
I have looked at the chord diagrams and forgot all about it again, I know most of the chords that fit in a key by playing, it's there and I don't ever forget it most of the time I'm writing music anyway so I know which chords I can play and it's pretty much always the same story, I play mostly in triplets but fit in 5th's 4th's and omit 3rds if that's the sound I'm looking for, I think this is the best way to learn for me personally it takes some more time but I couldn't do it any other way I have a problem with people teaching me stuff, I don't learn by looking at them or at the board, I learn by doing.
however if I chose to teach I'll learn a couple of things to communicate.
I don't think theory would make me a better player, nor would it ruin creativity. it's mainly a way to communicate and I get it that's good
#13
dont listen to anyone just try to teach and see what its like.you can find students by putting flyers close to schools or generally public places like the mall or something.also a newspaper ad would really help.make sure your price is cheaper than anyone else's
#14
Quote by backflip36915
dont listen to anyone just try to teach and see what its like.you can find students by putting flyers close to schools or generally public places like the mall or something.also a newspaper ad would really help.make sure your price is cheaper than anyone else's

You posted a similar thread some time ago. So, did you already start teaching?
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#15
MaggaraMarineim quitting my job in 4 days after that i have to go to the army on october for six months because thats a law in my country so i will start after six months
#16
Quote by backflip36915
MaggaraMarineim quitting my job in 4 days after that i have to go to the army on october for six months because thats a law in my country so i will start after six months


Sounds like Finland

Quote by joaof9826

however if I chose to teach I'll learn a couple of things to communicate.
I don't think theory would make me a better player, nor would it ruin creativity. it's mainly a way to communicate and I get it that's good


Fair enough, I think that makes sense.

I know you already talked a bit about different genres, but if you get a student who wants to learn jazz, or reggae, or hard rock, could you adapt to that? You can't just teach every student songs you personally like since some students might dislike them a lot.

And what kind of a grasp do you have on structured lessons? If you were holding your first ever lesson, and your new student was a complete beginner, where would you start and how would you continue? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this.
Quote by Jet Penguin
Theory: Not rules, just tools.

Quote by Hail
*note that by fan i mean that guy who wants his friends to know he knows this totally obscure hip band that only he knows about with 236 views on youtube. lookin' at Kev here
#17
Quote by Kevätuhri
Sounds like Finland


Fair enough, I think that makes sense.

I know you already talked a bit about different genres, but if you get a student who wants to learn jazz, or reggae, or hard rock, could you adapt to that? You can't just teach every student songs you personally like since some students might dislike them a lot.

And what kind of a grasp do you have on structured lessons? If you were holding your first ever lesson, and your new student was a complete beginner, where would you start and how would you continue? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this.

I'd learn jazz from some guy on youtube.
I'd start with smoke on the water obviously then I'd ask him for songs he wanted to learn how to play I'd find one I could teach him at his level and make sure he learned how to play that one right, I would keep listening to what he wanted to do perhaps give him finger agility exercises so that he could start playing harder stuff that demmand alternate picking.
what would you do?
Last edited by joaof9826 at Aug 23, 2016,
#18
Quote by joaof9826
I'd learn jazz from some guy on youtube.


Well, I sincerely hope you never get a student who wants to learn jazz.

Quote by joaof9826

I'd start with smoke on the water obviously then I'd ask him for songs he wanted to learn how to play I'd find one I could teach him at his level and make sure he learned how to play that one right, I would keep listening to what he wanted to do perhaps give him finger agility exercises so that he could start playing harder stuff that demmand alternate picking.
what would you do?


But how far can that take your students? After a while, they can learn songs on their own without any help. Is that the point where you think you'd have nothing more to offer but finger exercises?

I'm not a teacher. But I'm a student, and I know how I'd like to be taught. I think your approach is a good start, but I think you need to put more thought into what you'd actually teach. No one wants a teacher that runs out of things to teach after 6 months. Unless you want to do short beginner courses, which is fine ofc.
Quote by Jet Penguin
Theory: Not rules, just tools.

Quote by Hail
*note that by fan i mean that guy who wants his friends to know he knows this totally obscure hip band that only he knows about with 236 views on youtube. lookin' at Kev here
#19
Quote by Kevätuhri
Well, I sincerely hope you never get a student who wants to learn jazz.


But how far can that take your students? After a while, they can learn songs on their own without any help. Is that the point where you think you'd have nothing more to offer but finger exercises?

I'm not a teacher. But I'm a student, and I know how I'd like to be taught. I think your approach is a good start, but I think you need to put more thought into what you'd actually teach. No one wants a teacher that runs out of things to teach after 6 months. Unless you want to do short beginner courses, which is fine ofc.

Yeah I wouldn't like to step into jazz either I don't like jazz and it gets technical too.
Yeah but the thing is the teacher can only do so much.. All I could really do for him is inspire him to play and help him out when he has problems, I wouldn't run out of things to teach as my students will tell me what they want to learn. I learned my self and I know what helped me go from A to B I think.
what has your teacher taught you?
what is he teaching you now?
#20
Quote by joaof9826
I wouldn't run out of things to teach as my students will tell me what they want to learn.


Isn't this a complete logical fallacy? Your students are completely capable of asking you to teach them things you know nothing about, and at that point you can no longer teach them.

Quote by joaof9826
what has your teacher taught you?
what is he teaching you now?


I've had two teachers, and currently I don't have one ( the school I'm applying to doesn't take new students before next spring). The first teacher fixed my picking hand technique (which was horrible before the lessons) and we went through songs I liked. I don't think my first teacher was fantastic or anything, but I probably still couldn't palm mute if he didn't fix my posture, and the lessons were fun. The second teacher I took lessons from while attending a musical academy, and I had theory lessons separately. We learned songs from styles I liked, and he introduced me into the basics of other genres (which eventually converted me into a jazz musician). We also looked into basic academic stuff like sight reading, but I was never good at that. Not the teachers fault, I was a bad student in the academic side. We looked into guitar techniques through real songs, and I got a lot of great insight into strumming and rhythm techniques in various styles, a thing that is important to me to this day. The teacher handled himself in any genre, funk, jazz, blues, metal, whatever, and was technically a fantastic player (and a great guy). I was a beginner back then and I haven't taken lessons in years now, but as I said I'm applying again now that I have life stuff out of the way. I think I'm also a better student nowadays, back then I didn't fully understand what I actually wanted to do, which is why we covered a lot of different styles and concepts in the academy lessons.

I'm sorry if I seem negative towards you, but I live in a country where we take education very seriously, and I guess I'm more critical towards teachers than some people. A lot of amateur teachers don't seem to understand that guitar lessons are not about them, they're about the students, and a bad teacher can screw up a beginners learning curve. If you really want to teach, I hope you all the best, but remember that you're teaching real people who really want to become decent musicians, and their progress will become your responsibility.
Quote by Jet Penguin
Theory: Not rules, just tools.

Quote by Hail
*note that by fan i mean that guy who wants his friends to know he knows this totally obscure hip band that only he knows about with 236 views on youtube. lookin' at Kev here
#21
joaof9826

I don't know that playing an instrument really is an accurate assessment of your teaching abilities.

Make a video, and teach someone how to form a D chord, and change it to a G chord, and post your explanation up.

Make a video teaching a first timer how to hold a pick, address their natural awkwardness, and correct their position while being encouraging and reassuring.

Best,

Sean