#1
Hey all,

I have a question about economy picking. I've been playing many years but I am currently re-learning my right hand technique. I have been using economy picking for years but I have many bad habits due to bad practice and misinformation.
One thing that is bothering me at the moment is whether economy picking can be used effectively for riffs like master of puppets or even more complex palm muted riffs? It seems that palm muting restricts movement a bit and the pick angle changes used in economy picking seem near impossible to achieve while palm muting. The big issue is that when doing mini up sweeps you need to angle your pick so that it is pointing a bit more towards the ceiling and palm muting seems to restrict that. Is there anybody out there who can give some advice on this? There are tonnes of articles and economy picking lessons out there and I've studied them plus many instructional videos but this specific issue has never been covered as far as I can see...

Thanks.
#2
Some of Rick Graham's economy picked runs are palm muted and sound awesome. It's not exactly what you're asking about but similar. I'm no economy picker, but FWIW when I sweep I try not to change my pick angle from normal alt picking position.
Ibanez UV777 - Carvin TL60 & 727 - Jackson KE3
Splawn QuickRod - Mesa Stiletto & RoadKing - Peavey Ultra+ - Peavey Bandit
Some pedlulz & cabz


7 String Legion
#3
Thanks for the reply. I'll check Rick out. I've literally searched all over the web and over the years watched many instructional Dvd's but have never seen this specific subject covered...
Is there really nobody out there who has had this issue before? I'm wondering am I going to have to learn strict alternate picking for these specific tasks...?
#4
I feel like Master of Puppets (at least the infamous pre-verse riff) doesn't lend itself to economy picking. You'd really have to work on accents, which I find hard with sweeping/EP, and you still won't save yourself that many pickstrokes. That's just one example though. Other situations of course will be more or less conducive to EP. I think Yngwie Malmsteen has some riffs that are economy picked as well.

I find it best to approach these issues on a case by case basis. It's great that you've already worked on economy picking, which puts you ahead of the game. But being able to do strict alternate is a must for those situations (which are more often than not) where EP isn't the most natural option.

Also, palm muting shouldn't restrict your pick movement and your ability to change angles. Obviously we can't see what's actually going on with your technique, but you should be able to palm mute as you sweep. Take another look at your picking and see if you can figure out what's tripping you up and what you can do to fix it.
Ibanez UV777 - Carvin TL60 & 727 - Jackson KE3
Splawn QuickRod - Mesa Stiletto & RoadKing - Peavey Ultra+ - Peavey Bandit
Some pedlulz & cabz


7 String Legion
#5
Thanks again for the reply. My picking angle is similar to this, at about 1:56


I don't do the Karate chop style when trying to mute as this stops me from being able to up sweep with this angle...

I'm a little unsure of what to do now to be honest..
#6
Muting and economy picking are not things that can´t be combined (I actually find it harder to do it without muting). But it is true that some riffs just aren´t suited for EP. It really depends on the song. Most metallica riffs: alternate.
#7
Quote by Mr. Cachi
Muting and economy picking are not things that can´t be combined (I actually find it harder to do it without muting). But it is true that some riffs just aren´t suited for EP. It really depends on the song. Most metallica riffs: alternate.


I can mute ascending no problem because of the pick angle tilted towards the floor, I'm just unsure how to do it when descending if you are angling the pick towards the ceiling like in the video clip above..
#8
There are guys that use EP exclusively and have developed a very hard attack which should be suitable for muted riffs (I just used the metallica one as an example, but I am talking about even more complex riffs). If I could just get the muting mystery sorted I'd know what to practice....
#9
I forgot to mention, I had lessons with Ney Mello probably more than ten years ago now. He EP everything without exception and his articulation is very strong, check this out

He's the guy on the left. Unfortunately, during my 2 day 20 hour lesson and buying his dvd I still don't know what I'm doing lol Dvd was actually a big let down in my opinion. I didn't have a good enough idea of my EP at the time to know what specific questions to ask
Last edited by johnokellyrecording at Aug 24, 2016,
#10
Both the guys in those vids are excellent economy pickers and virtuosos all around. I see what you're saying in the Frank Gambale vid about your pick angle but I still think the concept of muting is the same.

Take some time to isolate this particular issue and work on it. See if you can make an exercise or etude that will include some descending EP lines you'd normally have trouble with. Also work on your accents and attack in there too. Slow things down and pay attention to everything your technique is doing.

Sounds like you already know this, but it takes time. Hang in there and you'll get it.
Ibanez UV777 - Carvin TL60 & 727 - Jackson KE3
Splawn QuickRod - Mesa Stiletto & RoadKing - Peavey Ultra+ - Peavey Bandit
Some pedlulz & cabz


7 String Legion
#11
BCKRedBaron

Thanks, I've decided I'm going to give Economy picking a try without angling the pick at all, except maybe for large sweeps. Ney Mello in the video above doesn't seem to angle the pick in the same way Frank G does. Seen as I'm relearning my right hand, I practice ridiculously slow and I also try to hit each note as hard as I can. Not angling the pick certainly increases the resistance and makes it harder to do but I think with enough slow focused practice it should work out. Palm muting is essential to me so I think not angling the pick or even slightly downslanting should help that and over time hopefully I'll be able to play fast with the increased resistance.