#1
Hi everybody!

Hope everyone's doing great and crushing it at music while the summer (or whatever season your area is currently in) dies down.

I have been more or less totally inactive on UG (mostly due to a long and busy touring schedule + work + outside), only coming out of hiding to ban a fool or close a thread and then disappearing again.

But now that the summer "leg" of all this has wrapped up, I'm back in action at UG again and ready to continue my modly duties. A ton has changed on the website, we even have a new forum for videos and stuff and now there's this weird IQ thing etc etc. We're entering a new ERA!

And one of those things the powers that be and myself and the mods have been discussing in this new era, is trying to have more organized community action with the forums, especially between the mods (and to a slightly lesser extent our "experts" and regular contributors) and the community.

So without typing a billion pages, I think we should use this thread to, as a group, come up with some plans and things we as the MT community can do to bring the subforum even closer together and productive and (insert rest of Miss America rant)

You guys rock. Let's rock as a team. What do you guys want to work on and post about? Open discussion below.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#2
Quote by Jet Penguin
only coming out of hiding to ban a fool


I don't recall you banning me

Quote by Jet Penguin
What do you guys want to work on and post about? Open discussion below.


I think we should talk more about modes in rock music.

Nah seriously, I think we could talk more about non-theoretic sides of music, "musician talk" is so much of a wider concept than music theory. Today was coincidentally my first day studying musicology at the uni, and I've had a lot of exposure to that side of music, and it's getting more interesting to me everyday.

Another thing that I've also been interested in lately is (I literally came up with this term right now) "emotional music theory". Instead of thinking that this chord resolves to this chord and these notes fit over them yada yada you could look into it by thinking about what these chords sound like and what they make you think about. Take the major second interval for example: played in sequence, say going from G to A, it sounds pretty bland to be honest. But when played simultaneously, those two notes create a lot of tension, but not as striking as a minor second or a tritone. It has a sort of a mystic feel, it sounds very "still" and "silent" if that makes any sense. it sounds like morning mist, floating over a clearing in the middle of the forest in total silence (of course other people might have a completely different interpretation of a harmonic major second interval, but that's the beauty of it). I've been trying to extend this way of thinking to basically everything I play. What does it make me feel? What kind of a "view" does it make me think of? (90% sure that sentence is total broken english). Being constantly mindful of this leads you to create stronger connections between the notes and your ear in my experience.

tl;dr let's not talk about modes

I hope you enjoyed my 2AM wall of text. And hey, welcome back
Quote by Jet Penguin
Theory: Not rules, just tools.

Quote by Hail
*note that by fan i mean that guy who wants his friends to know he knows this totally obscure hip band that only he knows about with 236 views on youtube. lookin' at Kev here
Last edited by Kevätuhri at Aug 29, 2016,
#4
Jet ... welcome back. Where you been touring?

On the MT front, it would be good to have threads for different skill levels (beginners, intermediate ...), and especially to make the theory as straight-forward as possible for beginners.

Kevätuhri
I've been beating that drum (emotion) for a long time here. I've been fascinated by that for a good few years now, ever since I read a few books on music psychology. The really interestingb thing about this is that anyone can engage in appreciating this, with zero theory, and rapidly build an understanding visually and aurally for what's going on ... chord tones, sonic conflict by playing adjacent to chord tones, running for cover in the chord tone to remove the conflict. And so on. I am doing a lot of work in and on this area in my company and the software music tools (emuso) we are developing. It's a response to a complaint I've heard over and over that the requirement to learn music notation is a step too far (there are an awful lot of people who just want to play / play better, but not be pro-musicians, or haven't the time available). You going to learn Thai language just to cook a few noodles? Well, standard theory approach expects the equivalent for people that just want to jam a bit. It's my absolute passion to break down these barriers and show the real simplicity of the building blocks of music for what is.
Last edited by jerrykramskoy at Aug 30, 2016,
#5
Quote by Kevätuhri

Another thing that I've also been interested in lately is (I literally came up with this term right now) "emotional music theory". Instead of thinking that this chord resolves to this chord and these notes fit over them yada yada you could look into it by thinking about what these chords sound like and what they make you think about. Take the major second interval for example: played in sequence, say going from G to A, it sounds pretty bland to be honest. But when played simultaneously, those two notes create a lot of tension, but not as striking as a minor second or a tritone. It has a sort of a mystic feel, it sounds very "still" and "silent" if that makes any sense. it sounds like morning mist, floating over a clearing in the middle of the forest in total silence (of course other people might have a completely different interpretation of a harmonic major second interval, but that's the beauty of it). I've been trying to extend this way of thinking to basically everything I play. What does it make me feel? What kind of a "view" does it make me think of? (90% sure that sentence is total broken english). Being constantly mindful of this leads you to create stronger connections between the notes and your ear in my experience.
That's an interesting idea - because it would be good to explore just how much of that sort of thing is subjective.

Or rather... it's ALL subjective (obviously), but how much of that subjectivity do we all share, do we all agree on, and which intervals (or chords or progressions) do we feel very differently about. What governs those differences?
Is there really anything in the sounds themselves that contribute to those "emotional" effects (regardless of our personal make-up and experience), or is all totally to do with acquired personal associations?
Quote by Kevätuhri

tl;dr let's not talk about modes
If we're talking "emotional theory", I think modes will be hard to avoid...
#6
Quote by jongtr
If we're talking "emotional theory", I think modes will be hard to avoid...


T'was a joke
Quote by Jet Penguin
Theory: Not rules, just tools.

Quote by Hail
*note that by fan i mean that guy who wants his friends to know he knows this totally obscure hip band that only he knows about with 236 views on youtube. lookin' at Kev here
#7
Quote by jerrykramskoy
Jet ... welcome back. Where you been touring?

On the MT front, it would be good to have threads for different skill levels (beginners, intermediate ...), and especially to make the theory as straight-forward as possible for beginners.


I like this idea, we can maybe make some "beginner's guide to" type things, and then gradually ramp things up, or go into more advanced topics/applications in the comments to keep the discussion relevant.

I've been all over New England with this band. We're playing a few hundred shows a year, 7 last weekend alone. Actually got to play with and hang out with some pretty big names this summer, which was a big deal for me.

As far as the emotion thing, we're welcome to try and bring that to the discussion, I dunno how far we can get results-wise with a purely subjective field from a teaching standpoint, but the discussion will certainly be informative and interesting.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#8
@Jet: hope you didn't mind, just wanted to close seriously necrobumped threads while everyone else was away you're probably going to be on more often than me and seniority etc so hope it goes well ^^ I'll probably be working on backend stuff more anyways.

A thought just came up that might appear in one of the level threads: "give me another song where X happens, and explain X", where X can be any theoretical concept (borrowed chords, secondary dominants, etc.)

If you've read the threads of late, there was a bit of minor b6/b13 discussion again, if you want to elaborate on that, haha I asked Adam Neely on YouTube and he said something about historical context.
#9
Quote by Jet Penguin
I've been all over New England with this band. We're playing a few hundred shows a year, 7 last weekend alone. Actually got to play with and hang out with some pretty big names this summer, which was a big deal for me.


Kamasi Washington or not impressed Seriously though that sounds cool.

Quote by Jet Penguin
As far as the emotion thing, we're welcome to try and bring that to the discussion, I dunno how far we can get results-wise with a purely subjective field from a teaching standpoint, but the discussion will certainly be informative and interesting.


Well, we could at least make some beginners aware of the concept, that maybe they can sometimes use their ears and instinct to figure out what sounds good and what they like, and encourage ear training and looking into more aural concepts. I'm not sure if we could teach it in great length, but overall discussion might be very interesting.

Quote by NeoMvsEu
I asked Adam Neely on YouTube and he said something about historical context.


Adam Neely answered my question in a Q&A a while ago. I consider it my greatest achievement in music to date.
Quote by Jet Penguin
Theory: Not rules, just tools.

Quote by Hail
*note that by fan i mean that guy who wants his friends to know he knows this totally obscure hip band that only he knows about with 236 views on youtube. lookin' at Kev here
#10
Jet Penguin#
Jet, That sounds great (New England gigs). I love Boston and Framingham, though haven't been there for a long, long time now (lived near Boston for a couple of years). What instrument(s) you playing?

I remember being introduced to the drummer of "The Cars" in a club called "Ratskeller" (?) in Boston. He was mega-arrogant. He informed me he was the drummer of said band as his opening sentence. I looked back blankly, and in my best (put-on) cockney accent, I said "Never 'eard of them". He wasn't happy. But I was :-)
#11
Neo:

No worries, I appreciate all the backup, feel free to get as involved as you want.

An "Is it #5 or b13 and why should I care" thread can definitely be done.

Keva:

No Kamasi yet, but a lot of pretty well known jam and indie bands. Working on it though!

Maybe we can tie all that stuff into a thread on how to direct one's own learning and find a personal style? Open to ideas as usual.

Jerry:

The Rathskeller! Unfortunately they tore it down in 2002, but that was a landmark venue! Up until I turned 11 anyways...

I was never super into the Cars beyond Elliot Easton's guitar work and that one song with drums in 5/4. Forget which tune. Either way, Boston and the whole area is the best, I have 0 intention of moving away anytime soon.

I'm handling all the guitar work on this one. it's a 3 way split between lots of fusion solos, laying down grooves/comping, and space/robot noises, so I can't complain...

Unless you mean what specifically am I using for a gear setup? That's a thread in itself, I have too much gear these days.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#14
I'm glad Jet's back, it's been rather dull around here lately. I've been mostly working on game remixes and original composition. I hope we can have more interesting debates and discussions. Maybe we can discuss noisy rhythms, polymeters, hypermetrical patterns, chord progressions, jazz harmony, ect.
"I don't know what you're trying to suggest. There's no shame in taking what you need to hold your position!"

Super Buu (DBZ) on assimilation (it could also apply to blues guitar and guitar soloing in general).
#15
Why you no have the guitar strap at stomach level?

Why you have it like a bow tie????!!!111

Seriously though man, I've been following you on my feed and clearly we have both been busy - you with your tours and fancy artistic pictures (y u no land country girl lovr yet an eny of them??) and me with my insightful FB post updates like:

"Just finishing at the gym!"

"Early morning work out...let's do this"- insert grainy pic of me in a UA sleeveless

and the ever prolific "Just finished 2 hours, man am I tired"

FB posts, which all are musical code for "Guitar Modez".

Seriously though (for real this time) we need to catch up on FB chat again with the rest of the gang. Xiaoxi was in Austin recently, but i found out about it on a day I was already committed, otherwise I'd have shown him how to REALLY drive that little German import!

Best,

Sean
Last edited by Sean0913 at Sep 8, 2016,
#16
Quote by Sean0913
stuff
Hey Sean, btw, click the numbers next time you want to delete a post
#17
Quote by Sean0913
Why you no have the guitar strap at stomach level?


Hey.

That is the #1 way to wear a guitar.

If you wear it too low you just look like a douche.

Quote by RonaldPoe
Maybe we can discuss noisy rhythms, polymeters, hypermetrical patterns, chord progressions, jazz harmony, ect.


I hope to god we don't get a bunch of beginners asking about hypermetrical patterns here, we have enough mode posts

By the way, I need to write a bunch of analysis's about classical music pieces for a western classical music course, so if anyone has interesting recommendations do share. Asking here since I haven't hijacked a thread in ages and it's not really that important.
Quote by Jet Penguin
Theory: Not rules, just tools.

Quote by Hail
*note that by fan i mean that guy who wants his friends to know he knows this totally obscure hip band that only he knows about with 236 views on youtube. lookin' at Kev here
#18
We could do a song of the week and have a group discussion/analysis of the song.
Each thread could stay open for a week or maybe two, and each thread would include the title and artist for the following weeks song so that people can start listening to it casually in the week before discussing it analytically.

We could bring back some of the composition challenges.

Hmmmm I'll think some more.
Si
#19
To Kev, "Night on Bald Mountain" (Mussorgsky) is a great classical piece and I think it deserves an analysis.
Kingdom Hearts version

Disney's Fantasia version


I'm curious about hypermetrical stuff but I agree with 20Tigers that we need a song of the week thing.
"I don't know what you're trying to suggest. There's no shame in taking what you need to hold your position!"

Super Buu (DBZ) on assimilation (it could also apply to blues guitar and guitar soloing in general).
Last edited by RonaldPoe at Sep 9, 2016,