Poll: Which one?
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View poll results: Which one?
Get an Epiphone SG G-400 Pro
9 90%
Get something else
1 10%
Voters: 10.
#1
So right now I am looking for a new guitar in the sub $400 range and I am thinking about getting an SG. Is it a good guitar for the money? Should I get it? I went to Guitar Center and played it - sounded great and it's really nice looking. I am a beginner (well not super beginner - I can play quite a few things) but I can't solo. I mostly play metal and rock. Any tips or experiences with this guitar would be appreciated
Overdrive me daddy

Guitars:
Epiphone G400 Custom
Yamaha F335
Amp:
Marshall DSL401
#2
Do it. I have a SG 400 (not pro). I bought it as a factory "second" in mint condition for under $300. Lightweight, sounds good, plays good, and I find myself reaching for it more and more over my MIM Strat / Epi Tribute. Thanks to the unplugged sustain it has I play it acoustic style when I want to learn new songs, run scales, and for general noodling but on occasion I'll plug in with a reverb / distortion in front of the amp and it'll make some serious racket. Not to mention for what I paid for it I could bounce it down a set of concrete steps and it wouldn't break my heart.
#3
bsadowsky3031 Thank you for your reply! I heard that the SGs have something called a neck dive, is that a big issue or is it bearable?
Overdrive me daddy

Guitars:
Epiphone G400 Custom
Yamaha F335
Amp:
Marshall DSL401
#4
Quote by lenivy
bsadowsky3031 Thank you for your reply! I heard that the SGs have something called a neck dive, is that a big issue or is it bearable?

It really depends who you talk to, some people are bothered by it, some people aren't. Neck dive is just the weight of the neck causing the guitar strap to slowly slide across your shoulder and cause the guitar to rotate and point the neck towards the floor when you let go of it with both hands and let it hang on the strap, but when you're actually holding on to the guitar, such as when playing, it's not noticeable and the guitar doesn't feel off-balance at all. If it's really bothering you a good thick leather strap with a good amount of grip against your shirt/shoulder should eliminate the problem.
I like analogue Solid State amps that make no effort to be "tube-like", and I'm proud of it...

...A little too proud, to be honest.
#5
Blompcube I am planning on getting a Bigsby tremolo for the SG, will it solve the problem?
Overdrive me daddy

Guitars:
Epiphone G400 Custom
Yamaha F335
Amp:
Marshall DSL401
#6
Sgs are great. Mine has no neck dive. It is completely balanced. The strap attaches right behind the neck, it's perfect. I cant believe someone would complain of neck dive unless they play a lespaul.
Last edited by geo-rage at Sep 5, 2016,
#7
Epi
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#8
The SG-400 is a great guitar in its own right.If you have balance issues it is no big deal moving the strap button to the upper bout from the stock behind the neck position. If you are wanting something for less money as a starter guitar look at the Squier 51. Approx 200.00 UDS and a great guitar in its own right. A great neck,pickups that sound good and the bridge is splittable so it can kinda get a Straty tone with a touch of quack. So good in fact Fender made an expensive copy of a cheap guitar(pawn shop 51). And as an added bonus the 51 is a great platform for modification.
Bhaok

The following statement is true. The proceeding statement is false.
#9
Quote by lenivy
Blompcube I am planning on getting a Bigsby tremolo for the SG, will it solve the problem?


I installed a vibramate and bigsby b5 on my 400 and yes it did solve the problem. Mind you I never found it that much of an issue before either...

Regarding the guitar. I grew up an epiphone snob for no reason really, I just believed what I read on message boards etc...I have a Gibson SG Standard in fireburst and since getting my g-400 and adding the bigsby the Standard has remained in its case. These are fantastic guitars and even though I paid 175 Canadian for it, this guitaris now my #1. I say go for it
Last edited by d_byrne23 at Sep 5, 2016,
#10
Quote by lenivy
bsadowsky3031 Thank you for your reply! I heard that the SGs have something called a neck dive, is that a big issue or is it bearable?


Neck dive means that when you put the guitar in a strap and stand up, the headstock wants to head for the floor. There are people for whom that's not a big issue. I won't buy a guitar that's neck-heavy, for several reasons.

If a guitar is neck-heavy, you're constantly supporting it one way or another. You're either holding the neck up with the hand you're supposed to be fretting with (not good) or you're trying to hold the butt end of the guitar DOWN with the arm you're supposed to be picking with, or you've got some monster wide strap on the guitar that's pulling the back of your shirt up all the time. The first two affect your playing and the last makes me uncomfortable and doesn't always work. One other thing: moving the strap to the upper bout often doesn't solve the problem. You'll notice where the point of the upper bout is relative to the frets. A Strat, which is generally very well balanced, has that upper bout strap button located right opposite the12th fret. The SG? More like the 18th fret. And that's about the same amount that the guitar is pushed to the left when you have it in a strap OR on your leg while seated.

There's more, however. I don't have any SGs because the placement of the neck relative to the strap means that everything pushes over to the left (if you're right-handed). Again, for some people it's not a big deal. Others will find that their arms and shoulders are sore after a period of playing.

And one more thing. People who like the look of the SG usually like it because of the two little horns. This is yet another reason why I don't have an SG -- while the SG has 22 or 24 frets pretty much free of the body, it's not really particularly comfortable to play on the upper frets compared to most of my other guitars. Those little horns are too close to the neck and force my hands to rotate to get to the upper frets.
#11
Quote by geo-rage
Sgs are great. Mine has no neck dive. It is completely balanced. The strap attaches righy behind the neck, it's perfect. I cant believe someone would complain of neck dive unless they play a lespaul.


You claim your SG has no neck dive. That's an unusual SG, but anything's possible.
Les Pauls don't exhibit neck dive because the strap attaches at the 16th fret (yours is at about the 20th fret if it's behind the body) and because they've got a much heavier butt-end on their body. Come to think of it, if you'd ever actually played a Les Paul, you'd know that, as does every Les Paul player on the planet. If there's ever been a balance comment regarding an LP, it's that they're butt-heavy, certainly not neck-heavy.

A Bigsby can be mounted to an SG to help balance it out by putting a bit more weight at the bottom of the guitar, but now you've added a potential tuning issue. Again, there are some folks who claim that their Bigsby-equipped SGs never go out of tune. Most, however, will admit that it adds tuning issues to the ones already existing because of the Gibson headstock angle and the location of the tuners relative to the nut.

Buy what you like, of course, but if you're a beginner, you should know what the potential issues are.
#12
Quote by dspellman

Les Pauls don't exhibit neck dive because the strap attaches at the 16th fret (yours is at about the 20th fret if it's behind the body) and because they've got a much heavier butt-end on their body
yes because they are butt-heavy.
#13
Quote by geo-rage
Sgs are great. Mine has no neck dive. It is completely balanced. The strap attaches right behind the neck, it's perfect. I cant believe someone would complain of neck dive unless they play a lespaul.


that is one of those stupid "mine doesn't ____. so none of them do___"

poor argument. and also have you ever played a guitar with a bad neck dive? it is a huge pain in the ass (as dspellman was saying).

FWIW- i do have two gibson SG's, and fortunately neither of them have neck dive/balance issues. great guitars.
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#14
I've heard alot about neck dive but never experienced it.About 11 years ago i was gigging an '04 Gibson SG Std regularly for 3 years and never experienced it.Have'nt felt it from other SG's i've played either.That's not to say it doesn't exist but i think alot of people are unnecessarily scared off SG's when they're not all bad.Personally i think Epi's are really good guitars.The best thing to do is go to the store and try one standing with a strap for a while and see if you like it.
Edited to mention.I found my SG much more comfortable to gig with than my Gibson LP Std.It took over as my no1 from that LP.
Last edited by EyeballPaul at Sep 6, 2016,
#15
The GOOD news with an SG is that it has a thin body that's not much thicker than the neck. That means there really isn't the big clunky kind of neck heel that you find on a traditional Les Paul or Strat. And you can have 22 or 24 frets on an SG with no movement of any other piece of the guitar, because the original SG's neck heel was so weak that Gibson has already moved the neck pickup closer to the bridge pickup to gain an extra bit of strength.

FWIW, the '70's L6S fixed most of the handling issues on the SG. It's just not as pretty. Looking like a flattened, road-killed Les Paul, it has the same thickness body as the SG and the same neck-body transition, meaning "no clunky neck heel." But because it has its strap button located at the 16th fret and because there's a lot more body below the bridge, the guitar is balanced and the neck position is (IMHO) much better and doesn't require your arm to extend as far to get to the first fret. Because the single cutaway on the guitar is wider than an LP's (or the tiny cutaways on the SG) upper fret access is outstanding.
#16
Quote by trashedlostfdup
that is one of those stupid "mine doesn't ____. so none of them do___"

poor argument. and also have you ever played a guitar with a bad neck dive? it is a huge pain in the ass (as dspellman was saying).

FWIW- i do have two gibson SG's, and fortunately neither of them have neck dive/balance issues. great guitars.
yes, and it's not that stupid,
Last edited by geo-rage at Sep 6, 2016,
#17
Quote by geo-rage
yes, and it's not that stupid,


i see that you edited out your bitchey comment.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#18
Edit that out too. The sg is also good because the cord plugs in on the front instead of the bottom.
Last edited by geo-rage at Sep 7, 2016,
#19
Quote by geo-rage
yes, and it's not that stupid,


On the other hand, it's not very logical. One anecdotal case doesn't extrapolate to "a few," "a lot," "most," or "all."

Guitars sell for a lot of reasons, including looks, a connection to guitar heros of the past, marketing claims and price, often well beyond any considerations regarding sound or playing quality. Our beginner TS is unlikely to be dissuaded from owning an SG; he's already decided.
#20
dspellman Why? I am also thinking about a Les Paul Standard
Quote by dspellman
Our beginner TS is unlikely to be dissuaded from owning an SG; he's already decided.
Overdrive me daddy

Guitars:
Epiphone G400 Custom
Yamaha F335
Amp:
Marshall DSL401
#21
The G-400 is a nice guitar for the money. Mine had neck dive, and my personal experience was that it didn't bother me at the time, but when I finally had a more balanced guitar it was a noticeable improvement. Even so, it was among the nicer affordable guitars I've owned.
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#22
Quote by lenivy
dspellman Why? I am also thinking about a Les Paul Standard


Because it's the one you asked about first .

And here, I have to confess that just as I've never purchased an SG (though I've had a lot of time with them having worked in a music store, and I've had bandmates who've owned them), I have a bias *toward* LP-style guitars, and I currently play a number of them (*ducks*) that are equipped with Floyd Rose trems. Two of them, a Gibson Axcess Custom and an Agile Custom, have been modified to the point where they approximate Neal Schon's Gibson Sig guitar, while the others are more or less in stock trim. I've also got early '80's Ibanez AR300 and Yamaha SG2000 guitars and a Moonstone Vulcan, etc..

The bad news about LPs:
They tend to be heavy (the Axcess Custom is not, having a thinner and chambered body). The SG2000, even though it's a neck-through double cutaway version, approaches 11 pounds.
Standard LP's have a clunky neck heel, which makes it less comfortable to play in the upper fret areas. There's a sharp body point that always nails me in the palm. And for my big hands, the point on the treble bout cutaway is too close to the neck, and that requires me to rotate my hand to play the upper frets. It's something you learn to do.
They often come with a "Gibson Hump" in the upper fret area, where the frets are sometimes higher in the 16-22 fret area.
Because they're thick and have sharp bound edges, your right forearm usually ends up with a dent. And your ribs often have one, too, especially if you're sitting down.
They're difficult to keep in tune (as are SGs) because of the headstock tilt-back and the change in direction of the strings after they leave the nut. The middle two strings easily go out of tune after a bend. You have to have a nut that's precisely cut (and they don't come that way from most manufacturers) and it's still a good idea to have some graphite lube on hand as well.

The good:
You can find guitars with neck heels that eliminate a lot of those issues. The Ibanez AR300, the Moonstone Vulcan and the SG2000 have smooth neck heels. The Axcess has a carved, shaped neck heel (I think you can find a similar neck heel on the epiphone Matt Heafy guitar), and that makes a *big* difference. The Agile Custom has a carved,shaped neck heel, as does the Agile AL3200. The Agile AL2000 has a "tilted" neck heel that works almost as well as the Axcess, and the Carvin CS-series guitars have a much-smoothed neck heel. There are several of these guitars that offer 24-fret necks (the AL2000 is one, the Carvin is available with one and I believe there are LTDs that also provide this.

I superglue the frets (most manufacturers don't take the time to glue their frets, but some custom makers do) and, if the frets aren't level, I have the guitar PLEK'd. I honestly do this with any guitar that's new to me these days. Besides eliminating "flyer" frets when the weather changes, there are sonic differences.

It's generally considered heresy to own a Les Paul with a Floyd, but they absolutely eliminate tuning issues on LPs. Even if you don't do a lot of dive bombing, that's huge.

My ideal Les Paul *without* a Floyd Rose in your price range at the moment is probably the Agile AL3200. It's a neck-through guitar (the neck continues through the body) with a carved neck heel, comes with a tummy cut, has a slightly stubbier "horn" so that you don't rotate your hand to get to the upper frets, has a very good nut (teflon Graphtech thing) and String Saver saddles in a Graphtech bridge. It comes with a real ebony fretboard, real MOP inlays (rosewood and plastic inlays were generally considered cheaper alternatives), jumbo frets, a 14" radius and pretty decent AlnicoV pickups.

Here's another option: The LTD EC1000 has 24 frets and a sculpted neck heel: https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1708868
Last edited by dspellman at Sep 7, 2016,