Poll: white moderates hmd
Poll Options
View poll results: white moderates hmd
hud
5 83%
nhud
1 17%
Voters: 6.
Page 1 of 2
#1
First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season."


I've seen this passed around on the internet, usually related to various BLM type things. I think the one dude who didn't stand for the anthem being played.

Do you think this holds true with today's issues? If so, do you think this is reserved for racial inequality or does it extend to other political and ideological issues as well?


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
#3
Quote by Banjocal
I think



Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
#4
This is a thread that will be brimming with colorful responses I definitely won't read.
#6
inb4 ali.gui... FUCK
I like St. Anger. Ridicule me, daddy

Quote by ErikLensherr

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
#8
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
This is a thread that will be brimming with colorful responses I definitely won't read.
Quote by EndTheRapture51
who pays five hundred fucking dollars for a burger
#9
For the record I'm actually interested in your responses although I'm aware that dank memes and butthurt are likely to occur.


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
#11


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
#12
Probably more relevant in 1960s America, but I wasn't around then. Perhaps there was more nuance in public perception?

Not relevant to BLM, or most "issues" it's being tagged to now. At worst it's a gross mischaracterization of the "I agree with sentiment not methods" viewpoint. Ends not justifying the means, and all that being a (rightful) concern of many people.


"Every day I wonder how many things I am dead wrong about."
#15
Quote by slapsymcdougal
pez_79eWSWw

Okay, so I'm gonna take this seriously for the sake of argument - I'm assuming the point is that views like the one I quoted are merely a way of discrediting any opposition and further polarizing the issue at hand.

Let's say that's really the case. Why do you think would the speaker place greater blame on moderate opposition than on radical opposition?


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
#16
I think people should give less a fuck about what other people are doing and more a fuck about their own lives theyre ruining.
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
#17
Quote by JamSessionFreak
Okay, so I'm gonna take this seriously for the sake of argument - I'm assuming the point is that views like the one I quoted are merely a way of discrediting any opposition and further polarizing the issue at hand.

Let's say that's really the case. Why do you think would the speaker place greater blame on moderate opposition than on radical opposition?
Let me know how that works out for you.
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#18
"moderate" is such a meaningless word
Check out my band Disturbed
#19
By the way, similar quote from Steven Biko - 60s and 70s apartheid South Africa.

“Instead of involving themselves in an all-out attempt to stamp out racism from their white society, liberals waste a lot of time trying to prove to as many blacks as they can find that they are liberal.”


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
#20
Quote by JamSessionFreak
By the way, similar quote from Steven Biko - 60s and 70s apartheid South Africa.


this one is ridiculously relevant. Liberalism has become a pissing contest of "I'm more aware of XYZ than you".
Check out my band Disturbed
#21
Quote by StewieSwan
"moderate" is such a meaningless word
moderate adjective |ˈmɒd(ə)rət |
average in amount, intensity, quality, or degree: we walked at a moderate pace.
• (of a person, party, or policy) not radical or excessively right- or left-wing: a moderate reform programme.
noun |ˈmɒd(ə)rət |
a person who holds moderate views, especially in politics. an unlikely alliance of radicals and moderates.
verb |ˈmɒdəreɪt |
1 make or become less extreme, intense, rigorous, or violent: [ with obj. ] : I shall not moderate my criticism | [ no obj. ] : the weather has moderated considerably.
2 [ with obj. ] Brit. review (examination papers, results, or candidates) in relation to an agreed standard so as to ensure consistency of marking. the dependability of an examining system rests on those who set, moderate, and mark the papers.
3 [ with obj. ] (in academic and ecclesiastical contexts) preside over (a deliberative body) or at (a debate): a panel moderated by a Harvard University law professor.
• [ no obj. ] (especially in the Presbyterian Church in Scotland) act as a moderator; preside. it is the Presbytery that moderates.
4 monitor (an Internet message board or chat room) for inappropriate or offensive content.
5 [ with obj. ] Physics retard (neutrons) with a moderator. the neutrons causing fission are not moderated but react at high energies.
DERIVATIVES
moderatism |ˈmɒd(ə)rətɪz(ə)m | noun
ORIGIN late Middle English: from Latin moderat- ‘reduced, controlled’, from the verb moderare; related to modest .
Quote by EndTheRapture51
who pays five hundred fucking dollars for a burger
#24
This has been an issue in politics, on all sides but especially the left, for a long time. It's one of the huge areas of dispute between, for example, Social Democrats and Socialists.

Are there "moderates" or whatever your label is, who are mostly content with the status quo and abhor change that might inconvenience them? Yep.

Is that most politically active moderates? Not in my experience, at least.

I'd be one of those moderates, at least publically. Those who know me better are often surprised when they hear my actual views on what should be done in an area, what the ideal would be? The problem is that politics is ultimately the art of the possible. You can hold ideals incredibly deeply, but the world isn't built in a way that permits the railroading of your views down the throats of an unwilling opposition. I used to think, when I was younger, that social democrats merely lacked vision for the worker, that they thought they could "set the timetable for another man's freedom". The problem is that the timetable isn't set by the moderates, it's set by those who oppose you. The timetable is the best case scenario that allows your train to arrive without being derailed.

Moderates in politics are usually extremists behind it all. They're extremists, worn down to the best realistic proposition of their ideals. Those who shite on about speeding the movement forward through "direct action", or whatever this decade's buzzword is, can only do so because they don't have any realistic proposition of accomplishing their goal and therefore don't face any real resistance.


This isn't an original idea. It's a classic.

"Why should we subsidise intellectual curiosity?"
-Ronald Reagan

"Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
-George Washington
Last edited by Ur all $h1t at Sep 7, 2016,
#25
People IRL think I'm a moderate

until we end up talking about ethics and negative freedom
Quote by EndTheRapture51
who pays five hundred fucking dollars for a burger
#26
Quote by Ur all $h1t
The problem is that the timetable isn't set by the moderates, it's set by those who oppose you

This works for all sides, which makes it an asset.
#27
Quote by Fat Lard
This is all the Eternal Liberal's faults, Jam. Check out this, ctrl+f for Yugoslavia and Serbia to get red-pilled: http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/02/11/the-warmongering-record-of-hillary-clinton/

Most of that paragraph is kinda legit, apart from where they deny Serbian genocide. More or less everyone here, right or left agrees that nothing can excuse the atrocities commited by Serbian nationalist forces and politicians but at the same time I think most people see Western involvement in Bosnia and Kosovo at best as a farce and at worst as a tragedy.

I would very much like to invite foreigners to downtown Belgrade for a bit of bombing-related sight-seeing, just as I'd like to see a lot of Serbians have a stroll through the streets of Sarajevo.

Also Croatia gets well bellow its fair share of shit for its involvement in Bosnia.


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
#28
Quote by Ur all $h1t
This has been an issue in politics, on all sides but especially the left, for a long time. It's one of the huge areas of dispute between, for example, Social Democrats and Socialists.

Are there "moderates" or whatever your label is, who are mostly content with the status quo and abhor change that might inconvenience them? Yep.

Is that most politically active moderates? Not in my experience, at least.

I'd be one of those moderates, at least publically. Those who know me better are often surprised when they hear my actual views on what should be done in an area, what the ideal would be? The problem is that politics is ultimately the art of the possible. You can hold ideals incredibly deeply, but the world isn't built in a way that permits the railroading of your views down the throats of an unwilling opposition. I used to think, when I was younger, that social democrats merely lacked vision for the worker, that they thought they could "set the timetable for another man's freedom". The problem is that the timetable isn't set by the moderates, it's set by those who oppose you. The timetable is the best case scenario that allows your train to arrive without being derailed.

Moderates in politics are usually extremists behind it all. They're extremists, worn down to the best realistic proposition of their ideals. Those who shite on about speeding the movement forward through "direct action", or whatever this decade's buzzword is, can only do so because they don't have any realistic proposition of accomplishing their goal and therefore don't face any real resistance.


This isn't an original idea. It's a classic.

This is good words. I might post my thoughts later.


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
#29
Quote by Banjocal
People IRL think I'm a moderate

until we end up talking about ethics and negative freedom
Is that where they start thinking someone cut out the bit of your brain that makes you fun?
Quote by Diemon Dave
Don't go ninjerin nobody don't need ninjerin'
#30
>tfw your social/fiscal polar extremities make you moderate on political tests
#31
pretty much yeah though I think it was more the ~10 years of depression that did it for me
Quote by EndTheRapture51
who pays five hundred fucking dollars for a burger
#32
Quote by Banjocal
I think


you are
Quote by Fat Lard
Why would you spend tens of thousands of dollars to learn about a language you already speak? It was over before it even started dude

Quote by captainsnazz
brot pls
#33
Quote by Ur all $h1t
This has been an issue in politics, on all sides but especially the left, for a long time. It's one of the huge areas of dispute between, for example, Social Democrats and Socialists.

Are there "moderates" or whatever your label is, who are mostly content with the status quo and abhor change that might inconvenience them? Yep.

Is that most politically active moderates? Not in my experience, at least.

I'd be one of those moderates, at least publically. Those who know me better are often surprised when they hear my actual views on what should be done in an area, what the ideal would be? The problem is that politics is ultimately the art of the possible. You can hold ideals incredibly deeply, but the world isn't built in a way that permits the railroading of your views down the throats of an unwilling opposition. I used to think, when I was younger, that social democrats merely lacked vision for the worker, that they thought they could "set the timetable for another man's freedom". The problem is that the timetable isn't set by the moderates, it's set by those who oppose you. The timetable is the best case scenario that allows your train to arrive without being derailed.

Moderates in politics are usually extremists behind it all. They're extremists, worn down to the best realistic proposition of their ideals. Those who shite on about speeding the movement forward through "direct action", or whatever this decade's buzzword is, can only do so because they don't have any realistic proposition of accomplishing their goal and therefore don't face any real resistance.


As soon as I saw that Avi, I knew the party was about to really start.
I like St. Anger. Ridicule me, daddy

Quote by ErikLensherr

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
#34
Yeah I think this applies to most issues, it's not a "white moderate" or "white secretly-liberal" thing. Surely it happens with other issues like transgenders, etc ... it's just that the specific situations that happen with the "black movement" don't happen with those issues (for this kind of thing to be noticed as much).

For instance, with stuff like the fight for the rights of homosexuals there haven't been "bad methods" (e.g riots and the like) from what I gather.
However, the "goal" was and is being achieved nonetheless (acceptance of homosexuality, gay marriage, lower discrimination, etc). So are the "white moderates" who supported stuff like gay marriage and supported representatives that voted it in congress (for whichever country this applies to) "disappointing" too? Did they "set the timetable for another man's freedom"? Did those things happen in spite of them?
So you can't generalize it. However, in terms of racial tensions and stuff like Black Live Matters that "white moderate" thing has some truth to it. When there is some "turmoil" people that would have normally supported you shy away or shun you because of that whole "want order" stuff. Shouldn't use it to downplay the stuff they do have legitimate concerns about though (some of the "methods of direct action" actually deserve criticism). The usage of that quote might be problematic in terms of narrative.

Personally I don't really find, in my daily life, appropriate platforms to help with these kind of issues. And if there are then they are not as comfortable, at least not as comfortable as posting about it on an international forum to people outside my inner circle (family/close friends/coworkers/etc). When it makes sense and it's somewhat comfortable to do it (e.g not having to drive 4 hours to an event or have to skip work to join a protest or something) then I help with what I can.
Last edited by gonzaw at Sep 7, 2016,
#35
Quote by StewieSwan
"moderate" is such a meaningless word


especially to Bryce and Evan
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#36
Quote by Ur all $h1t
Those who know me better


and i thought it was bad enough just knowing you here
There's no such thing; there never was. Where I am going you cannot follow me now.
#37
I went out last night and it was fun but I'm all fuzzy and slow today so this thread calls to me but it calls to me in Estonian.
o()o

Quote by JamSessionFreak
yes every night of my entire life i go to bed crying because i wasnt born american
#38
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
This is a thread that will be brimming with colorful responses I definitely won't read.


We know you. We know this is a lie.
OBEY THE MIGHTY SHITKICKER
#39
First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season."



"Let me make claims so vague and overreaching that they're inherently inarguable due to the lack any solid points."
OBEY THE MIGHTY SHITKICKER
#40
For the record it's by Martin Luther King.


Gozd in gora poj,
silen ženimo hrup,
uboga gmajna, le vpup, le vkup,
le vkup, le vkup z menoj,
staro pravdo v mrak tulimo,
da se pretulimo skozi to zimo
Page 1 of 2