#1
let's get to the nub of the issue
Quote by from some magic old book on wikipedia
“Then I looked again at all the acts of oppression which were being done under the sun. And behold I saw the tears of the oppressed and that they had no one to comfort them; and on the side of their oppressors was power, but they had no one to comfort them. So I congratulated the dead who are already dead more than the living who are still living. But better off than both of them is the one who has never existed, who has never seen the evil activity that is done under the sun.


Based on your own experiences, situation and overall capacity/desire to have a child, thread title?

Is there an "ought" in the concept of procreation? If so, what is it?


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ha-haaa
Last edited by Banjocal at Sep 13, 2016,
#2
If you have the time and means to love and nurture it then sure.


If you are just having one for the sake of it and can't raise it properly, then no.
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#3
Yeah fuck babies innit.

Not literally, mind.

Might leave a bit of a mess.
o()o

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#4
Quote by EpiExplorer
Yeah fuck babies innit.
Next thread: DO U LIKE TO REAR CHILDREN?
they're coming to take me away
ha-haaa
#5
Ultimately you are creating a life to serve your own interests
Check out my band Disturbed
#6
Quote by Banjocal
Next thread: DO U LIKE TO REAR CHILDREN?
Or do you prefer to look them in the eye when you defile them?
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#7
Quote by Banjocal
Next thread: DO U LIKE TO REAR CHILDREN?


Hold on hold on

Rear children or rear ending children

lets make distinctions here
o()o

Quote by JamSessionFreak
yes every night of my entire life i go to bed crying because i wasnt born american
#8
anybody else sometimes just stop and wish they were never born??

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#9
I didn't ask to be born ok
dirtbag ballet by the bins down the alley
as i walk through the chalet of the shadow of death
everything that you've come to expect


#10
there's no point in being alive we should all just kill ourselves

ready? ok 3 2 1 go
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Do you remember the cherry blossom in the market square
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#11
Quote by Xiaoxi
anybody else sometimes just stop and wish they were never born??


No.

I sometimes wish that for other people though.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#12
Quote by Xiaoxi
anybody else sometimes just stop and wish they were never born??
sometimes

but then I remember there's ice cream and on that alone there is reason to exist
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#13
Quote by Trowzaa
I didn't ask to be born ok


"No one has come into the world without crying. No one asks when you want to enter the world, no one asks when you want to leave. How empty and meaningless life is. We bury a person, throw three shovels of earth over him, drive out in a coach, drive back in a coach and console ourselves that we still have life enough left to live. But really, how long is three score and ten, why not just get it over with straight away?"

~Kierkegaard
o()o

Quote by JamSessionFreak
yes every night of my entire life i go to bed crying because i wasnt born american
#14
I only think its unethical if you aren't capable of raising a child, or if you're only doing it to guarantee a benefit from the govt (it's a thing where I live), or if you don't actively try to leave this world in a better state than you entered it.
#16
kierkegaard really speaks me

he's like the original edgelord
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Do you remember chalk hearts melting on a playground wall
Do you remember dawn escapes from moon washed college halls
Do you remember the cherry blossom in the market square
Do you remember I thought it was confetti in our hair
#18
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
Some men just wanna watch the world burn here in 2009


no time like the past
o()o

Quote by JamSessionFreak
yes every night of my entire life i go to bed crying because i wasnt born american
#19
Pondering ethics and being a le epic edgelord sometimes meet in a gray area I'd rather not visit.
OBEY THE MIGHTY SHITKICKER
#20
If I have a child they're going to die one day even if they turn out to be the best person in human history (being my child, they obviously will be) and they will also have to deal with global warming (man made or natural), political correctness, ebola, aids, social media, cancer and other shit.

I'd say the cons in life outweight the pros so yes, having children is highly unethical and we should let humanity end so insects and animals can take over and kill each other off til there's nothing left.
I have nothing important to say
#21
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
Some men just wanna watch the world burn here in 2009

tfw 2009 was 7 years ago
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Do you remember chalk hearts melting on a playground wall
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#23
Quote by kalypto
kierkegaard really speaks me

he's like the original edgelord
tbf to the guy he concluded that we should have faith that the lord is there to save us. He was pretty hopeful really just in anguish

I'd say Schopenhauer started the proper edgelordfest

then Nietzsche who basically cum tributed (that's a verb now) over Lou Salome
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#24
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
And 1907 was 109 years ago


Damn bruh


Christ died 2016 years ago


miss him still...
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#28
Quote by Banjocal
deverbify


unverbificate
o()o

Quote by JamSessionFreak
yes every night of my entire life i go to bed crying because i wasnt born american
#29
Maybe 50 years ago when it was possible to get a decent job and house and car right out of highschool

Nowadays it's so competitive and every opportunity comes with a major cost. It's just not fair that the next generation will need a college degree just to work retail. It's not fair that brands like Facebook and Google are monopolizing the Internet, and there's no room for new fresh, innovative ideas.

its like if you have kids these days, they'll just be another cog in the system, with no where to go, just working for those who were here first. Hell even my 20 something born in America generation feels this way right now, if we have kids they'll have even less opportunities than us and that's just sad.
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#30
Quote by k.lainad
Nowadays it's so competitive and every opportunity comes with a major cost. It's just not fair that the next generation will need a college degree just to work retail. It's not fair that brands like Facebook and Google are monopolizing the Internet, and there's no room for new fresh, innovative ideas.

its like if you have kids these days, they'll just be another cog in the system, with no where to go, just working for those who were here first. Hell even my 20 something born in America generation feels this way right now, if we have kids they'll have even less opportunities than us and that's just sad.
Spoken like a true loser.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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Voted for Patron Çıldırdı.

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#31
welcome, my son

welcome

to the machine
Quote by Trowzaa
I wish I was American.

~ A Rolling Potato Gathers No Moss ~
#32
Quote by kalypto
kierkegaard really speaks me

he's like the original edgelord


I dont think he speaks to mouthbreathers, So-cal.


Antinatalism is for dips, but some like Schopenhauer/Christians think it helps lay down good moral foundations.
.
Last edited by Fat Lard at Sep 13, 2016,
#33
This thread went from 0 to Ian Watkins pretty fuckin fast.
Dance in the moonlight my old friend twilight


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#34
As long as you don't raise them under the false pretense that life is fair or has nothing worth living for, it's fine.

Obvs you need to be a good, loving parent and guide them through these lessons until they learn what to make of it for themselves.
There's nothing left here to be saved
Just barreling dogs and barking trains
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#35
oh hey that is from ecclesiastes

from the bible

here is how that book ends. ecclesiastes, not the bible.

Now all has been heard;
here is the conclusion of the matter:
Fear God and keep his commandments,
for this is the duty of all mankind.
For God will bring every deed into judgment,
including every hidden thing,
whether it is good or evil.
#36
It's only ethical if you use them to stop a train that's going to kill the people on the track.
#37
Quote by Banjocal
let's get to the nub of the issue


Basically: Is existence inherently good or would it be better to not exist.

Is something better than nothing? Personally I'd rather perceive than not. Experiencing the world can be terrible and wonderful, and no matter how down someone is they've had experiences in their life that were worth whatever shit they've been through. And there's no telling what's coming.

Now, the ethics of procreation...

I typed half a sentence and got stuck..

I think it's "best" to wait until you're in a good position in life to really care and provide for a child; when you choose to have a child. Not an accident, not for monetary or societal reasons, etc. When the parents are ready. But that's not the reality. There are a lot of people that aren't ready, but most of the time the instincts kick in and they give it all they've got, even when they're not ready, weren't prepared, not in the ideal situation to have a kid, and for the most part people get by and find a way. and then there's another being, another subset of the universe experiencing the universe.

We're one section in a chain. passing on genes and experiences. Information carriers. Damn I want to look up "information" but I know it'll just lead me back to philosophy. What the fuck is ethical anyway? Things that are approved of and good for human kind? For the planet? The universe? God? If you want some "real" meaning of ethics then you gotta look to religion for that. Otherwise it's a personal thing, but your personal beliefs are shaped by the people around you and your upbringing, whatever that may be. I can forecast the rest of this train of thought devolving into circular logic or a dead end so I'll just stop there.

Last edited by The4thHorsemen at Sep 14, 2016,
#38
Quote by k.lainad
Maybe 50 years ago when it was possible to get a decent job and house and car right out of highschool

Nowadays it's so competitive and every opportunity comes with a major cost. It's just not fair that the next generation will need a college degree just to work retail. It's not fair that brands like Facebook and Google are monopolizing the Internet, and there's no room for new fresh, innovative ideas.

its like if you have kids these days, they'll just be another cog in the system, with no where to go, just working for those who were here first. Hell even my 20 something born in America generation feels this way right now, if we have kids they'll have even less opportunities than us and that's just sad.


Just a reminder that it's perfectly okay to just say 'at this moment I don't really want kids' without coming up with all that bullshit right?
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