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#1
I have a few tones that I like to play with on a Vox Valvetronix.
One of them is a smooth, heavily over driven mid range focused metal tone, along the lines of Malmsteen or Batio.

My friend has an Ac30 at the practice room and there is no usable distortion to speak of. So i'm trying to figure out what to run into this amp to get the tone I prefer. I know both Malmsteen and Batio use Marshall Tube amps, and I don't know how the ac30 compares for tone. I also know Batio uses Tube screamers for overdrive but he might also be using the built in overdrive on the Marshall's in tandem.

So if someone has some experience with the Marshal Jcm800, and the Vox ac30, can you tell me how different they are? I'd like to know if it's even possible to get this kind of overdrive from the ac30.
#2
Wrong tool for the job. Vox has a different tone and distortion than Marshall. Even if you try to run a Marshall-In-a-Box (MIAB) pedal into the Vox it likely won't sound right. If you want a Marshall tone, then buy a Marshall.
www.facebook.com/yourbadinfluence
#3
Quote by Mkjms
I have a few tones that I like to play with on a Vox Valvetronix.
One of them is a smooth, heavily over driven mid range focused metal tone, along the lines of Malmsteen or Batio.

My friend has an Ac30 at the practice room and there is no usable distortion to speak of. So i'm trying to figure out what to run into this amp to get the tone I prefer. I know both Malmsteen and Batio use Marshall Tube amps, and I don't know how the ac30 compares for tone. I also know Batio uses Tube screamers for overdrive but he might also be using the built in overdrive on the Marshall's in tandem.

So if someone has some experience with the Marshal Jcm800, and the Vox ac30, can you tell me how different they are? I'd like to know if it's even possible to get this kind of overdrive from the ac30.


very different amps so realistically you'd have to run the amp clean and use a marshall style distortion pedal to get what you want. you can try an overdrive like perhaps a Fulltone OCD or Perhaps a Digitech Hardwire CM-2 as both have a fair bit of gain on tap. you would have to use the overdrives as such and not as a boost get close to the tones you want.

not really the ideal amp for what you want to do.
#4
Quote by monwobobbo
very different amps so realistically you'd have to run the amp clean and use a marshall style distortion pedal to get what you want. you can try an overdrive like perhaps a Fulltone OCD or Perhaps a Digitech Hardwire CM-2 as both have a fair bit of gain on tap. you would have to use the overdrives as such and not as a boost get close to the tones you want.

not really the ideal amp for what you want to do.


Alright then, so what's a decent Marshall in a box type pedal? I'm not trying to clone either Malmsteen nor Batio's tone, my valvetronix certainly doesn't replicate them precisely (though it does have Marshall modelers).

I just want a nice simple portable setup that I can plug in to the ac30 to get a relatively smooth sounding mid heavy overdrive. Maybe a tubescreamer into a marshall sim pedal, into the ac30? Cost isn't an object, so I don't mind buying multiple pedals, I just want something relatively portable.

Does anyone know what the boutique metal channel, and metal distortion addon on the valvetronix+ series are modeled after?
Last edited by Mkjms at Oct 15, 2016,
#5
You can definitely get it from the AC30 with Yngwie's overdrive pedal. His overdrive is basically very close to distortion pedal, so just a little gain from the AC30 and that pedal and you're set. I have his YJM 308 by DOD (the early $30 version) and it nails it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DOD-YJM308-Preamp-Overdrive-Guitar-Effects-Pedal-PD-9843-/282214961017?hash=item41b5528f79:g:dZUAAOSwOyJX-92X

There are few other options on this pedal, which are essentially the same circuit by DOD and Fender, this would probably the cheaper option:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GTYDBVG/ref=psdc_11968421_t1_B00MI1P10I

Bear in mind that these are not your usual overdrive pedal, so not every garden variety as suggested above will do. I have the DOD YJM308 and it is much closer to distortion than most of the overdrives on the market, so get one of these two I mentioned and you should be set.
#6
monwobobbo

The Sansamp Character British should do the trick if you want Marshall tones from a clean amp. The new ones should be better than mine for this, as they have switchable speaker emulation bypass
#7
#8
Thanks, I'll take a look.
I was afraid when I said cost is no object someone might recommend a Marshall full stack, so I should clarify, cost is no object in a portable solution.
Also I'm not going to spend more than 300$...so cost is somewhat of an object.
#9
I should also mention I am running active Seymour Duncan Blackouts. So I don't need to worry about getting to close to Malmsteen's tone with his sig gear, but I do wonder what it would sound like...
#10
Quote by Mkjms
Thanks, I'll take a look.
I was afraid when I said cost is no object someone might recommend a Marshall full stack, so I should clarify, cost is no object in a portable solution.
Also I'm not going to spend more than 300$...so cost is somewhat of an object.




All my recommendations will work, the closest you'll get is the YJM 308 DOD overdrives or his original 250, which I think became a "Fender" product after YJM moved to Fender.

If you're not set on nailing the exact tone the most flexible one would be the GT-2 for the price.
#11
No, not set on nailing that exact tone, I'm sure we could collectively come up with a dozen different artists that use heavily overdriven, smooth, midrange centered tones. I could add Eric Johnson, Guthrie Govan, and Shawn Lane to the list as well for that matter. I am located in Canada as well, so I hope there won't be to much trouble tracking down these brands around here.
#12
Quote by diabolical


All my recommendations will work, the closest you'll get is the YJM 308 DOD overdrives or his original 250, which I think became a "Fender" product after YJM moved to Fender.

If you're not set on nailing the exact tone the most flexible one would be the GT-2 for the price.


DOD recently reissued the 250 overdrive which isn't to expensive ( may be out of production again)
#13
Quote by monwobobbo
DOD recently reissued the 250 overdrive which isn't to expensive ( may be out of production again)

They took YJM's name out of it after he signed to Fender, shortly they had a 250 reissue with his name on it and that was around $150 which made my eyes almost pop out of my sockets as I got the earlier version for $30 and it was fantastic value for that price.

If you're not 100% set on emulating the exact tones then a Sansamp original or the GT-2 would be probably your best bet as they're crazy versatile.
I also have a Sansamp TRI-OD which is fantastic but it has a switch lag for some reason, so I had to use a effects switcher live which was a drag, but still it is one of these pedals that I won't ever sell.
#14
So it looks like the Sansamps are difficult to track down in Canada. Although I am starting to like the idea of getting the versatility of an amp modeler.
Would something like a Vox stomplab or tonelab do the trick? My friend has a Line 6 pod that I could test out as well.

I swear by the boutique metal channel on the Valvetronix+ series, and it sounds like the Stomplab is the near perfect solution, maybe with a tube screamer or similar overdrive when I really need all out gain.
Last edited by Mkjms at Oct 16, 2016,
#15
Nevermind, looks like the Vox Stomplab has just about everything the vt+ amp series has. It has my favored boutique metal channel, additional overdrive, delay, eq, everything I could possibly need. Won't need the tube screamer pedal.

It's also a third of the price of the Sansamp, why isn't the Vox more popular/recommended? It seems to be a go to for anyone looking for a Vox Valvetronix in a pedal.
Last edited by Mkjms at Oct 16, 2016,
#16
Quote by Mkjms
Nevermind, looks like the Vox Stomplab has just about everything the vt+ amp series has. It has my favored boutique metal channel, additional overdrive, delay, eq, everything I could possibly need. Won't need the tube screamer pedal.

It's also a third of the price of the Sansamp, why isn't the Vox more popular/recommended? It seems to be a go to for anyone looking for a Vox Valvetronix in a pedal.


well don't take this wrong but I can't recall anyone ever asking for a valvetronix in a pedal. the stomp lab does have some nice fx which is what most people I know that have it use it for. personally I think that would be a waste to run thru a nice tube amp to get umm.... well a nice tube amp sound. I will highly recommend something that pushes the front end of the amp over a digital recreation.
#17
That's okay, we can't all have golden ears
I like the sound of the vt40+ I have and find it compares much more favorably to good tube tone than most cheaper solid state amplifiers, so it should do the trick for me.

Your talking about an overdrive though right? Seeing as I have little use for the signature overdrive sound on the AC30, it wouldn't make much sense to overdrive it.
I was more referring to the fact that the Stomplab is significantly cheaper than the Sansamp Gt2, a similar digital recreation/modeler, and still provides a wide variety of tones/versatility.
#18
run a marshall-in-a-box distortion pedal (e.g. crunch box, marshall guvnor or guvnor 2, etc. there are loads of options) into the vox and then boost that with a tubescreamer or boss sd1-style overdrive pedal. should get close enough if you're only running the vox clean and you're in no position to buy a more suitable amp.
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

#19
I'm getting the feeling that there is a significant difference between digital modelers and overdrive/distortion pedals? The Vox would be a convenient solution but I suppose I could start a pedal board. I see a Marshall Jackhammer for sale used in my area, as well as a Marshall Guvnor 2. I can grab the Behringer to800 for 30$ and a Behringer delay for around the same price. Boss digital delays are prohibitively expensive...
#21
I will take Yngwies tone any day over MAB's. Yngwie has very clean, clear singles and actually picks very lightly. His tone is not as distorted as you might think either.
Dave @ Seymour Duncan
#22
Quote by Mkjms
I'm getting the feeling that there is a significant difference between digital modelers and overdrive/distortion pedals? The Vox would be a convenient solution but I suppose I could start a pedal board. I see a Marshall Jackhammer for sale used in my area, as well as a Marshall Guvnor 2. I can grab the Behringer to800 for 30$ and a Behringer delay for around the same price. Boss digital delays are prohibitively expensive...


analog vs digital for starters. I guess what we're trying to say is take advantage of the tube sound that amp provides. you can run an overdrive in front of a clean amp I wasn't suggesting to use it as a boost to the Vox in distortion mode. you can however use the drive section as another gain stage. place an overdrive in front then use the gain knob to boost the signal some and then turn the amp up. or you can use a marshall in a box pedal which when paired with tubes will have a more natural sound. Mincer is correct in that yngwie doesn't use all that much distortion and always makes sure that note clarity is maintained.

what is your budget for this project. lots of good recommendations have been made but obviously to expensive for you.
#23
I don't want to obsess about this. I'll grab the Vox for now and try out a Marshall pedal when I get a chance to pick one up used. I appreciate the input from everyone. I'd say Mab has better note seperation and accuracy, opinions all around
Last edited by Mkjms at Oct 16, 2016,
#24
http://www.tonebone.com/
Look at Plexitube or Hot British.
Vox had a Brit boost that might do it if you can find one used.
Personally, I think it is better to stay analog since the AC30 is one of the keepsake amps, and just boost the front end.
Last edited by diabolical at Oct 16, 2016,
#25
The Zvex Box Of Rock (JTM45 in a box) does a decent job of getting Marshall tones from an AC30.
Running a Fulltone Fulldrive 2 MOSFET with the gain maxed, modern/vintage switch set to Vintage (I think the other switch is set to MOSFET), pretty much nails Rush's "Working Man" tone with my AC30.
Although that's not enough gain but that gets you part of the way there.
When I get around to it, I may try pushing the Fulldrive with the BoR to see what that gets me.
Of course, speaker choice may be a major factor in obtaining Yngiwie/MAB tones. I dunno never tried them.
#26
Quote by monwobobbo
analog vs digital for starters. I guess what we're trying to say is take advantage of the tube sound that amp provides. you can run an overdrive in front of a clean amp I wasn't suggesting to use it as a boost to the Vox in distortion mode. you can however use the drive section as another gain stage. place an overdrive in front then use the gain knob to boost the signal some and then turn the amp up. or you can use a marshall in a box pedal which when paired with tubes will have a more natural sound. Mincer is correct in that yngwie doesn't use all that much distortion and always makes sure that note clarity is maintained.

what is your budget for this project. lots of good recommendations have been made but obviously to expensive for you.


Agreed.

I would point out that you don't have to spend tons on the dirt pedals. a cheap joyo crunchbox clone or something like that alongside an sd1 or joyo tubescreamer clone will do the job, most likely (or those marshall pedals mentioned for the MIAB pedal). I run pretty cheap pedals into my genz benz black pearl (voxish i think) and they get close enough to where i feel there's no need to spend tons. Admittedly I also have high gain amps which are more aimed at that tone, so I don't need that tone so badly out of the BP, it's more just for a bit of fun- but at the same time that also means I have the right gear right next to the BP so I can tell if it's really not cutting it. It's not as nice as a more suitable high gain amp, but it's certainly not a crap tone either I'd say.
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

#27
Alright, I'm going to buy the Vox Stomplab, because it is crazy versatile and digital seems to have come a long way.
I'm also going to pickup some cheap knockoff pedals, or some Marshall/Ibanez branded pedals on the used market. I want something with a marshall tone for the distortion, is the Joyo crunch the best bet for that aside from Marshall pedals?
I think i'll also grab the Behringer to800 tubescreamer clone, but I could grab the Joyo vintage overdrive instead (is that their Tubescreamer clone?). The behringer pedals are about 7$ cheaper for me in Canada, is there anything from Behringer that offers a good Marshall sound?

I'm not one to pick something and be happy with it without seeing what's on the other side. So I might as well go with both solutions considering the combined cost is way under budget. Given the analog nature of distortion pedals, it would seem that the more expensive known brands aren't so much "better" as they are "famous". Since I'm trying to do my own tone and not precisely copy anyone elses, knockoff pedals sound like a good plan.
Last edited by Mkjms at Oct 17, 2016,
#28
hard to say about the joyo crunch distortion- there's a ton of options these days of cheaper pedals which are clones, and I haven't tried close to all of them. it should do the job (as long as you don't get a faulty one), that's about all i can say. even in the joyo range they have several marshall in a box pedals (the hot plexi too, though it's a lot lower gain, and also a couple of those mini pedals with the flip lids, but i haven't tried them, and that's before you consider other manufacturers like donner, mooer, caline, etc. etc. )

and yeah the joyo vintage overdrive (the green one) is a tubescreamer clone.
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

Last edited by Dave_Mc at Oct 17, 2016,
#29
Quote by Mkjms
Alright, I'm going to buy the Vox Stomplab, because it is crazy versatile and digital seems to have come a long way.
I'm also going to pickup some cheap knockoff pedals, or some Marshall/Ibanez branded pedals on the used market. I want something with a marshall tone for the distortion, is the Joyo crunch the best bet for that aside from Marshall pedals?
I think i'll also grab the Behringer to800 tubescreamer clone, but I could grab the Joyo vintage overdrive instead (is that their Tubescreamer clone?). The behringer pedals are about 7$ cheaper for me in Canada, is there anything from Behringer that offers a good Marshall sound?

I'm not one to pick something and be happy with it without seeing what's on the other side. So I might as well go with both solutions considering the combined cost is way under budget. Given the analog nature of distortion pedals, it would seem that the more expensive known brands aren't so much "better" as they are "famous". Since I'm trying to do my own tone and not precisely copy anyone elses, knockoff pedals sound like a good plan.


Not at all, at least on the ones I suggested, the cheapo is a cheapo. YJM pedal is probably exception as he somehow fell through the cracks with the 308 DOD pedal.

The Carl Martin is worth every penny, once hear the nuances of that circuitry you'll know.

Behringer pedals are awful, don't ever go there.

I'd rather look at 2nd hand market mid to high grade pedals, Marshall, Boss, MXR, EH, Voodoolabs, BBE, TC, Tech21, etc., cheap is cheap.
#30
Quote by diabolical
Not at all, at least on the ones I suggested, the cheapo is a cheapo. YJM pedal is probably exception as he somehow fell through the cracks with the 308 DOD pedal.

The Carl Martin is worth every penny, once hear the nuances of that circuitry you'll know.

Behringer pedals are awful, don't ever go there.

I'd rather look at 2nd hand market mid to high grade pedals, Marshall, Boss, MXR, EH, Voodoolabs, BBE, TC, Tech21, etc., cheap is cheap.


I don't know what exactly you're replying to here? You quoted my entire wall of text.
As far as Behringer being crap, I would say you are generalizing. In my experience Behringer is extremely hit or miss with their various products. Sometimes they make a set of studio monitors with incredible accuracy, or a tube screamer pedal that sounds as good as a tube screamer. However I wouldn't doubt that 90% of their products might be mediocre at best and garbage at worst...

One thing you will find with me is that I'm not a fan of generalizations, because they don't always apply. If you have experience with a particular pedal from Behringer that you would prefer had never seen the light of day, by all means drop me a warning.

To be fair though, I was probably generalizing to some extent as well. I'm sure there is some degree of "you get what you pay for" in pedals, particularly in the build quality, but everyone has different ears and different tonal preferences, so there is very little that could sound objectively "bad".

Also due to the analog nature of these pedals, it seems as though it would be very difficult to completely nerf a knockoff. All they need to do is open the original pedal, note the components, and use the same readily available parts/circuits/diodes/etc. Some will undoubtedly still manage to screw it up though...
Last edited by Mkjms at Oct 17, 2016,
#31
Of course there is also the psychological phenomenon wherein many people perceive something to be better when it is more expensive. I don't think I'm in that group though, I'm just too darn skeptical. I recently purchased a set of used Sennheiser Hd 600's for example, and I think I will be reselling them, they just aren't much if any better sounding than my Philips Shp9500's, and the hd 600's are also seriously uncomfortable due to the clamping force.

That doesn't mean that the majority of cheap products are good, that just isn't the case, but there are plenty of hidden gems out there on the cheap market, to be appreciated by those lacking certain psychological dispositions
Last edited by Mkjms at Oct 17, 2016,
#32
Mkjms sounds to me like you're not really looking for advice, more like you want to argue our expensive gear obsession while we should all just happily plug along with Behringer?
From personal experience and watching bunch of kiddie bands bring in these pieces of c*&p (Behringer pedals) - you kick them around on stage for a bit and they'll fall apart. The quality is so bad, the knobs feel like they're about to fall off when you start moving them right out of the box. On the other hand you can buy some 10+ years old MXR, Tech21, Boss, etc. pedals that have been gigged with and have no issues. It's all about build quality.

You had a $300 budget (supposedly), so why ruin your day with these toys?
#33
That's not at all what I wrote above, I said I don't like generalizations without any specifics. You have just provided specifics in regards to the build quality, which is much appreciated. As well there are others here offering their own advice, I hope you won't take offence if I sometimes consider the opinions of others as well.

Unfortunately I already bought the to800, as I'm not really up for used market shopping right now. Reviews were pretty high across the board, and I didn't see much mention of build quality issues...
Last edited by Mkjms at Oct 18, 2016,
#34
Quote by Mkjms

Also due to the analog nature of these pedals, it seems as though it would be very difficult to completely nerf a knockoff. All they need to do is open the original pedal, note the components, and use the same readily available parts/circuits/diodes/etc. Some will undoubtedly still manage to screw it up though...


yeah with something which is really well-known like a tubescreamer, it's hard to muck that up. it's really the reliability which is the concern with these cheaper pedals.

i haven't tried behringer pedals, though.
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

#35
Quote by Mkjms
That's not at all what I wrote above, I said I don't like generalizations without any specifics. You have just provided specifics in regards to the build quality, which is much appreciated. As well there are others here offering their own advice, I hope you won't take offence if I sometimes consider the opinions of others as well.

Unfortunately I already bought the to800, as I'm not really up for used market shopping right now. Reviews were pretty high across the board, and I didn't see much mention of build quality issues...


Diabolical is correct about Behringer pedals. while some do fine sound wise they just plain don't hold up due to using cheap housing and footswitches. this is also from personal experience with them. there are other makers like Biyang or Joyo that produce inexpensive pedals that al least have a metal housing and the footswitches are better. you are coorect in that some cheapies can be great pedals and honestly no one here is disputing that.

ok now I think you'll find the biggest reason that many of the regulars here may suggest more pricey items is that we've all been there done that and found that you often get what you pay for. we'd rather steer you toward something that will sound good and last then just be the cheapest thing out there.
#36
i would point out that i had a few biyangs and they did sound good, but reliability was poor. and that was only with home use.
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

#37
Quote by Dave_Mc
i would point out that i had a few biyangs and they did sound good, but reliability was poor. and that was only with home use.


well this comes under the heading of you get what you pay for. some have had good luck with Biyang and other Chinese knock off brands others haven't. Behringer though seems to have a higher grumble rate if you like than some of the others. I guess I'd rather plug brands that at least have a metal housing and a better footswitch with the understanding that cheap pedals have a higher fail rate than the "name brands"
#38
^ yeah, absolutely agreed. a lot of it is the luck of the draw. I'd point out that the biyangs do have metal housings (though as you said, you're flagging up the possible lesser build quality, so that's fair enough), but i've had better luck with joyo and mooer etc. Though it may well just be luck of the draw. but out of the biyangs i did have, IIRC, 2 of the 3 died within the first week IIRC, one of the replacements was dodgy out of the new box, and the one that didn't die within the first week died after about a year. and the one i have that's still working crackles a little if you touch the toggle switch so it's not like i'd trust it either.
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

#39
I have an Eno Music OD-9 which I use for practice and since it's a mini a throw in the case for travel overdrive. no issues and it sounds pretty close to the TS-9 I had for years. also have a Joyo 6 band EQ which I haven't used much but so far so good. the behringer stuff I had developed footswitch issues fairly early on and a case cracked when the pedal got dropped (granted dropping pedals is a bad plan anyways).

always a tough balancing act when it comes to recommending pedals. many just want something cheap so you have to try to recommend the least crappy option. the Chinese knock off stuff does a good job (for the most part) of duplicating much more expensive pedals at a cheap price. I dunno
#40
yeah definitely. and if you're only playing at home or trying to figure out what you like, they can be just fine. and it's also worth pointing out that there are a lot of chancers at the other end of the market, too- paying tons is no guarantee of getting quality or something unique either.
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

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