#1
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/oct/17/mosul-battle-iraq-isis-islamic-state-peshmerga-latest

The Iraqi army and Kurdish peshmerga fighters are converging on Iraq’s second-largest city, which has been in the hands of Islamic State since 2014

Could be a big blow for ISIS. Interesting to follow!

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#3
The Kurds have been demeaned and abused for so long, I'm glad to see they're finally getting their shake at something, even if they are using what is probably 98% US military equipment.

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#4
Theres a livestream of the operations. Probably won't be able to see much though.


EDIT: Currently theres a press conference with I believe the President of Iraqi Kurdistan, Masoud Barzani

And a live map with updates.
http://isis.liveuamap.com/

Don't really know what to make of it all.
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Last edited by Gatecrasher53 at Oct 17, 2016,
#5
Go Kurds go ?
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#7
Is anyone else uncomfortable with the idea of livestreaming a war? Not for operational confidentiality or stuff like that, I'm sure they have sufficient controls for that, Donald. But the idea of spectatorship kinda undermines the gravity of what's happening.

We've had broadcasts in active combat zones since the first Gulf war, but that felt like reporting. There was a sense of authorship and urgency to information being shared, whereas a livestream sounds totally about you getting to "feel like you're there!".

To be fair, I haven't checked out the stream yet.

Anyway, this reclamation is overdue, and the Iraqi army better have its shit together.
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#8
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
Is anyone else uncomfortable with the idea of livestreaming a war? Not for operational confidentiality or stuff like that, I'm sure they have sufficient controls for that, Donald. But the idea of spectatorship kinda undermines the gravity of what's happening.

We've had broadcasts in active combat zones since the first Gulf war, but that felt like reporting. There was a sense of authorship and urgency to information being shared, whereas a livestream sounds totally about you getting to "feel like you're there!".

I think it makes it that much more real. It's happening, right now, here it is. The results of years of turmoil, and political and military posturing around the world. I'm generally in favour of more transparency in reporting, not less. And you're still receiving an authored point of view. I'm sure the telecommunications infrastructure required to stream live footage from a combat zone requires significant organisation and cost. They're cutting between press conferences, and live footage; it's not just some poor soul stuck in the middle of a warzone with a smartphone.

I agree though that it does seem weird. The scrolling cancerous chat is... bizarre. but hasn't news always had a sort of voyeuristic element to it? Dunno.
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#9
Quote by JustRooster
The Kurds have been demeaned and abused for so long, I'm glad to see they're finally getting their shake at something, even if they are using what is probably 98% US military equipment.


Yeah this. Apparently they've got some training assist from some sf and team guys too, they should be pretty squared away.

Hopefully the initial push goes smoothly, once you get in urban environments things can get weird quickly. With 2 years to dig, IEDs will be a bitch. Hopefully casevac points are clear, the fireteams get their overwatch and corners.

Hoping it goes well for them
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#10
<<<<< in the interest of continuing this thread, unabated from it's natural intent, I'll refrain from making my mildly racist comment about Kurds that emigrated to Mexico ("bean kurds").

You are welcome.
#12
Quote by TobusRex
<<<<< in the interest of continuing this thread, unabated from it's natural intent, I'll refrain from making my mildly racist comment about Kurds that emigrated to Mexico ("bean kurds").

You are welcome.
Thank you for intentionally not being racist.
#17
So ISIS has been routing civilians to areas likely to be targeted by airstrikes, have begun burning oil wells, and have ramped up suicide attacks.
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#18
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
So ISIS has been routing civilians to areas likely to be targeted by airstrikes, have begun burning oil wells, and have ramped up suicide attacks.


Reminds me of the Germans strafing civilians in World War 2. They weren't doing it to be pricks (although...as Germans, they WERE pricks), they were doing it to force the refugees onto roads and highways to impede Allied vehicles from reaching the front. Fairly brilliant, if brutal.

ISIS is toast. They'll be nothing but a bad memory in a few years.
#19
Plus it aids their narrative of righteousness. You get a media organization broadcasting civilians killed by coalition airstrikes and ISIS can use that for future recruitment. They already know they're going to be forced out of Mosul so they're thinking past it.


There have been civilians escaping Mosul, but I don't think they'd force them onto roads yet, plus there are probably too little to cover all ways into Mosul. Right now they're a currency to ISIS.

EDIT: Oh, that reminds me: the Kurds are taking this opportunity of international cooperation to call for a referendum of independence. Things might finally go their way and they've sure earned it.
She was born in 1898 in a barn. She died on the thirty-seventh floor of a skyscraper. She's an astronaut.
Last edited by ali.guitarkid7 at Oct 19, 2016,
#20
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
Is anyone else uncomfortable with the idea of livestreaming a war? Not for operational confidentiality or stuff like that, I'm sure they have sufficient controls for that, Donald. But the idea of spectatorship kinda undermines the gravity of what's happening.

We've had broadcasts in active combat zones since the first Gulf war, but that felt like reporting. There was a sense of authorship and urgency to information being shared, whereas a livestream sounds totally about you getting to "feel like you're there!".

To be fair, I haven't checked out the stream yet.

Anyway, this reclamation is overdue, and the Iraqi army better have its shit together.


There are a couple of series' here in the U.S. "My Fighting Season" on the Audience network where U.S. soldiers in Afghanistan submit body/helmet cam footage from their deployment if their footage is chosen for the show some interview footage is filmed as well, there is also "Taking Fire" on the Discovery Channel that follows a group of soldiers during a one year deployment in Afghanistan again using body/helmet cam footage as well as some interviews.

Fascinating to watch although it is not live is is real footage from these soldiers personal body/helmet cams and is sometime brutal AF.

Live streaming is a bit disturbing IMO but seems an inevitable evolutionary step for media.

FWIW watching the two aforementioned T.V. series' looks eerily similar to playing Call of Duty but of course the injured soldiers do not respawn.

I wish the Kurds success it is indeed long overdue.
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Last edited by Evilnine at Oct 19, 2016,
#21
Yeah there is an aspect of military fetishization to it. Like someone else said, voyeurism is kind of a fundamental aspect of cinema, but still: this isn't even reality TV, it's not even turning the offensive into an event, but the idea that you can check in/out on battles feels a little offputting.


Anyway, I'm not sure this is appropriate for the thread. Is anyone in here closely familiar with current Iraqi politics?
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#22
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
EDIT: Oh, that reminds me: the Kurds are taking this opportunity of international cooperation to call for a referendum of independence. Things might finally go their way and they've sure earned it.


It'd be nice to have an ally in that neighborhood not named Israel.
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I swear this guy in particular writes for the telegraph or some shit.

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My name can actually be traced back to as early as the 1990s, it means "fuck off data miner"
#23
Funny you mention Israel cuz I think their plight is similar to Kurdistan's. Also there is Jordan, whatever they're worth.


I dunno, I'm kinda divided on that. The Iraqi gov't has an opportunity here to deploy multiple forces composed of different sects in refutation of ISIS's sectarian bent. But, again, the Kurds seriously deserve after everything Iraq, Syria, and Turkey put 'em through.


Btw I laughed at Erdogan basically whining his ass off about being included in the battle. Bitch please. He didn't even say Turkey should be included, he kept using first person pronouns. Let's put him in camo and a helmet and send him off.
She was born in 1898 in a barn. She died on the thirty-seventh floor of a skyscraper. She's an astronaut.
#24
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
Plus it aids their narrative of righteousness. You get a media organization broadcasting civilians killed by coalition airstrikes and ISIS can use that for future recruitment. They already know they're going to be forced out of Mosul so they're thinking past it.


There have been civilians escaping Mosul, but I don't think they'd force them onto roads yet, plus there are probably too little to cover all ways into Mosul. Right now they're a currency to ISIS.

EDIT: Oh, that reminds me: the Kurds are taking this opportunity of international cooperation to call for a referendum of independence. Things might finally go their way and they've sure earned it.
TBH, I think anyone of any consequence in the ISIS leadership has been out of Mosul for weeks by now. At best, they'll have drawn straws for one sort of important but ultimately replaceable guy to leave behind and get mortared martyred for the cause.
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#25
Yeah I doubt Al Baghdadi's still sticking around there, but the point is that the coalition, Iraqi government, and Peshmerga should be thinking on those same terms: retaking Mosul is an inevitability, but what then?
She was born in 1898 in a barn. She died on the thirty-seventh floor of a skyscraper. She's an astronaut.
#26
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
Yeah I doubt Al Baghdadi's still sticking around there, but the point is that the coalition, Iraqi government, and Peshmerga should be thinking on those same terms: retaking Mosul is an inevitability, but what then?


You put a mission accomplished banner on a boat. Jeez, that's Winning 101.

Quote by EyeNon15
Thats too bad, I was under the impression I was arguing something profound


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