#1
So I'm confused with something, doesn't a dominant chord normally correlate to the fifth of the key that you are in? (So if you have a I, IV, V in C the V is the G)

So why do I keep seeing chord charts with things like C7, G7 and F7 say we're in C. Surely you could only use a G7 in that key? Or am I over thinking this or am I not understanding something major?
#2
There are things called secondary dominants y'know. A dominant chord in a tonal context simply frames the key, but it can also be used to temporarily move you into other keys (tonicization). Due to how much a dominant chords wants to pull to a I chord. Hence why jazz is full of ii - V's.

Off course, there are pleanty of other ways to resolve a domiant chord such as deceptive cadences etc.
Also, in minor keys there are a total of 3 dominant chords diatonic to that key.
#3
Quote by GoldenGuitar
There are things called secondary dominants y'know. A dominant chord in a tonal context simply frames the key, but it can also be used to temporarily move you into other keys (tonicization). Due to how much a dominant chords wants to pull to a I chord. Hence why jazz is full of ii - V's.

Off course, there are pleanty of other ways to resolve a domiant chord such as deceptive cadences etc.
Also, in minor keys there are a total of 3 dominant chords diatonic to that key.


I had no idea about a secondary dominant. I've never heard of them!
#4
Quote by Fisheth24
So why do I keep seeing chord charts with things like C7, G7 and F7 say we're in C. Surely you could only use a G7 in that key? Or am I over thinking this or am I not understanding something major?


Be wary of thoughts like that. While your train of thought is not wrong, you are walking close to a musical pitfall that will limit your playing badly if you fall for it. Theory explains, it does not rule. That would indeed be a blues in C, and we'd still enjoy playing a minor blues scale over it. The further you get with theory, the more it will enable you to explain what is happening. But it never, ever, sets rules on what can and cannot be used. It's in the straightest of terms, a formula used to provide an analytical explanation of what is going on. A description, but never a 'this goes', or 'that cannot'.

It is also very important that you learn how to make a personal, musical connection to certain theoretical concepts, instead of just accepting what you are told as truth. The only truth is in the music you hear. And the only thing that tells you, is 'someone thought this sounded good'. Your responsibility, if you want to learn, is to try and understand 'why' they thought it sounded good, and how you can incorporate it into your own playing. So, instead of writing out exactly what is going on in that particular progression. I'd encourage you to dig into the following subjects, and see how you can fit them into that bit of music.

- the blue note and where you may find it on the following scales
- the pentatonic blues scale
- the myxolidian scale
- the Dom7b10 (or Dom7#9, there's some discussion here depending on context) chord
Wise Man Says: The guitar is obviously female, she's got hips, breasts... and a hole.
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Last edited by FretboardToAsh at Oct 18, 2016,
#5
In blues all of the chords are technically dominant 7th chords, but not all of them function as dominants. How do you know whether a chord is functioning as a dominant or not? It has to do with the chord that follows it. A dominant chord is most of the time followed by a chord a fifth lower, for example G7-C or G7-Cm. Moving a half step down (when the dominant chord is a tritone substitution, for example Db7-C or Db7-Cm) or a half or a whole step up (deceptive cadence, for example G7-Am or G7-Ab) is also possible.

Non-functional dominant chords are chords like F7 in the key of C. Calling it a "dominant 7th" is a bit misleading because the chord doesn't function as a dominant. It's just a major chord with an added minor 7th.

The main point is, dominant 7th chords don't always have an actual dominant function. They are just called that because 99% of the time they function as dominants.

Let's take a look at a blues progression in C.

C7 | F7 | C7 | C7 |
F7 | F7 | C7 | C7 |
G7 | F7 | C7 | G7 |

When C7 is followed by F7, it functions as a dominant for F (this means it's a secondary dominant - we use a dominant chord that resolves "properly" but is not the dominant of the key we are in). But when it's followed by G7, it no longer has a dominant function.

F7 is non-functional. It's never followed by Bb where it would naturally resolve. (Also, there are no deceptive cadences either and it is not a tritone substitution for anything.)

G7 is the dominant chord of the key, though there's one "unconventional" chord change - from G7 to F7 - where one could argue that it doesn't really have a dominant function because it doesn't resolve "properly". But I would still call it an actual dominant chord (because that's what it sounds like and it also does resolve to C in the end - I see the F7 more as some kind of a "passing chord").

Surely you could only use a G7 in that key?

You can use any chord in any key. G7 is the only diatonic dominant 7th chord in the key of C, but that doesn't mean you can't use chords outside of the key signature.

Don't treat anything you learn about theory as a rule that you need to follow. That's just not what theory is about. Simply put, theory just gives names to different sounds. As Debussy said, "Works of art make rules; rules do not make works of art". Music came first, after that people tried to figure out what was happening in it. Theory is all about finding patterns in music. Theory doesn't dictate what you can or can't do, it just tells you what's common. Also, if you find something that you think "breaks the rules", it most likely doesn't, and it most likely already has a theoretical explanation that you just aren't aware of.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
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Yamaha P115
Last edited by MaggaraMarine at Oct 18, 2016,
#6
Strictly speaking, dominant is a function, not a chord quality. The two get mixed up because way way back when, composers would only use the dominant when they wanted the audience to expect resolution by 5th.

Music that descends from the Blues will use dominant quality chords that don't resolve back to the tonic, but that's to create tension by NOT resolving.
#7
Quote by Fisheth24
So I'm confused with something, doesn't a dominant chord normally correlate to the fifth of the key that you are in? (So if you have a I, IV, V in C the V is the G)

So why do I keep seeing chord charts with things like C7, G7 and F7 say we're in C. Surely you could only use a G7 in that key? Or am I over thinking this or am I not understanding something major?


You're not overthinking it, you're asking questions which is great

Yeah you're missing something. The C major scale is not the same thing as "the key of C". They are often used to mean the same thing and that's fine - language is a fluid thing- but it can sometimes lead to confusion.

The "key of C" tells you that C is the keynote and all other notes form a hierarchical relationship around that keynote. All notes form some kind of relationship with that keynote. Quite often people will say that a note is "not in key" but technically what they are saying is one of two things, either that it sounds bad or that it is not diatonic to the scale.

If I am in the key of C and then have a short passage that goes through a cycle of fifths E7 A7 D7 G7 C I am always in the key of C the whole time. I play all those chords and never leave the key of C even though many of the notes in those chords are not diatonic to the C major scale.

However, the way that the term "key" is often used that could be explained as follows: I play all those chords and never leave the key of C even though many of the notes in those chords are not in the key of C. It's just the way people talk and we usually know what they mean.

The key learning here though is that you don't have to stick to the notes of the diatonic scale to stay "in key". As long as your notes establish C as the key centre then you're in C.

Hopefully that makes some sense and doesn't confuse you more.
Si
#8
Quote by cdgraves
Strictly speaking, dominant is a function, not a chord quality. The two get mixed up because way way back when, composers would only use the dominant when they wanted the audience to expect resolution by 5th.

Music that descends from the Blues will use dominant quality chords that don't resolve back to the tonic, but that's to create tension by NOT resolving.
Strictly speaking dominant is a scale degree after which a function and chord quality are named.
Si
#9
Quote by MaggaraMarine
In blues all of the chords are technically dominant 7th chords, but not all of them function as dominants.


+1
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

#10
Another way of describing blues' usage of dominant 7ths:

Form, not function.

20T's E7 A7 D7 G7 C cycle is a good example of secondary dominant chords, chords that function as the dominant of the following chord but not as a dominant of the overall harmony.
#11
Quote by Fisheth24
I had no idea about a secondary dominant. I've never heard of them!
Damn, now the secret is out, we will have to kill you....

(Quick, guys, before he discovers secondary supertonics and tritone substitutes.... Damn, did I just write that in a public post??)
Last edited by jongtr at Oct 20, 2016,
#13
Quote by cdgraves
Strictly speaking, dominant is a function, not a chord quality. The two get mixed up because way way back when, composers would only use the dominant when they wanted the audience to expect resolution by 5th.

Music that descends from the Blues will use dominant quality chords that don't resolve back to the tonic, but that's to create tension by NOT resolving.


?? depends if you're using the word "dominant" as short hand for "dominant 7" ... in which case this is a chord quality.
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#14
^Agreed.

I think what CD is referring to is dominant "quality" chords (1 3 5 b7) that do not have dominant function (resolving up a 4th, down a 1/2 step, or up a whole step)

As Mags may have pointed out:

These chords are often (read: almost always) found on diatonic roots and move to other diatonic chords. The blues is an obvious example. My other favorite is this gem:

I - II7 - IV - I = C D7 F C

aka Eight Days a Week, that Cee-lo tune, and a bunch of other awesome stuff.

So in that example, that D7 is a dominant CHORD (because it's a major triad with a b7) but it has no dominant FUNCTION.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#15
Quote by Jet Penguin
^Agreed.

I think what CD is referring to is dominant "quality" chords (1 3 5 b7) that do not have dominant function (resolving up a 4th, down a 1/2 step, or up a whole step)

As Mags may have pointed out:

These chords are often (read: almost always) found on diatonic roots and move to other diatonic chords. The blues is an obvious example. My other favorite is this gem:

I - II7 - IV - I = C D7 F C

aka Eight Days a Week, that Cee-lo tune, and a bunch of other awesome stuff.

So in that example, that D7 is a dominant CHORD (because it's a major triad with a b7) but it has no dominant FUNCTION.



And what is a dominant function?

Just so I'm clear here!
#16
Quote by Fisheth24
And what is a dominant function?

Just so I'm clear here!

From Jet Penguin's post:

dominant function (resolving up a 4th, down a 1/2 step, or up a whole step)


G7-C
G7-F# (Tritone substitution - the G7 is substituting the actual dominant of F#, i.e. C#7. It's a common thing in jazz music.)
G7-Am or G7-Ab (Deceptive cadence - the V chord resolves to the VI instead of the I.)

In those examples G7 has a dominant function. This is how dominant chords are used most of the time.

But if you for example have a chord progression like G7-D or G7-Bb, then it doesn't have a dominant function.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

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Yamaha P115
#17
^This.

Also don't forget the backdoor dominant: G7 - Amaj7 = bVII7 - Imaj7

Also be careful, because assuming we are in C:

G7 - Bbmaj7 = V7 - bVIImaj7 = A common deceptive resolution.

^In that case, the G7 is still a functioning dominant, but we have substituted the tonic chord out for something more colorful. That's a little beyond the scope of OP's question, but I like to be thorough.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#19
Yeah. I mean i understood the basic gist of why you can use a dominant 7 chord (i.e. I could answer your initial question) and I've been lost for a good 2/3 of this thread as well. Just because you know a load more doesn't mean you have to prove it every time. Or at least if you're gonna say all that extra info at least actually explain it properly. I dare say when you guys come into the gear forums we (well, not me, but the other guys who could write out a plexi schematic from memory) could make your heads spin too, but we don't.
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

#20
Quote by Fisheth24
I'm still confused, would you mind breaking it down to something really basic so I can grasp this?


One thing that I think I forgot to explain was the leading tone. Dominant function has to do with the leading tone resolving to the tonic. So in C major to have a dominant function, you need the B to resolve to C. Let's forget about chords for a while. Play the C major scale up from C to B. Now stop. Doesn't it feel very unstable? We have arrived at the leading tone that wants to resolve up to the tonic. Now play C and all the tension releases. We have arrived back home. This is what dominant function is all about and this is where it originally comes from.

Now, let's talk about chords. If we want to harmonize the leading tone - tonic melody, we use V and I chords most of the time. In the key of C major this is G-C. Let's take a look at the chord tones and how they move (this is some basic voice leading).

G -> G
B -> C
D -> E

As you can see, if we use the smallest possible movements, the B goes up to C and releases the tension.

So why does the G major function as the dominant in the key of C major? It's because one of the chord tones is the leading tone - B. The leading tone has a strong tendency to resolve up by a half step to the tonic (B-C). Why do we use G major instead of E minor or B diminished? Well, B diminished actually does have a dominant function too in the key of C major. It's just not used that commonly in pop/rock music. But G major sounds so strong because the root note (G) is a fifth above (or a fourth below) the C, and fifth is a strong interval. When the bass goes from G to C, it just sounds strong. (Em resolving to C on the other hand is pretty weak, even though the Em technically has the leading tone in it. Maybe this is because the chords have so many common notes - the only difference between them is that C major has a C whereas E minor has a B.)

Now, we can even strengthen the resolution by adding a minor 7th (F) to the G major chord that already functions as a dominant (this is also where the name "dominant 7th chord" comes from). If we now look at the chord tones, we have G B D F. There is a tritone between B and F and this tritone is very unstable and wants to resolve to a major third. Again, let's look at voice leading.

G -> G
B -> C
D -> C
F -> E

As you can see, B goes up to C and F goes down to E. You could pretty much ignore the other voices because they aren't that important. You can play dominant-tonic simply by playing a tritone that you resolve to a major third - one of the voices (the leading tone) moves up by a half step and the other (the 7th of the chord) moves down by a half step. In a minor key it is the same thing but the F resolves to Eb instead of E - so the leading tone moves up by a half step (B-C) and the 7th of the chord moves down by a whole step (F-Eb).

G7-Cm

G -> G
B -> C
D -> C
F -> Eb

This is how the dominant chord is used most of the time. Make sure you have properly understood what I just said (and you have also tried it on your instrument so that you also know how it sounds like) before you continue reading.


I also mentioned some other possible resolutions. What these have in common is the leading tone still going up to the tonic. It really all comes down to voice leading. Let's look at the second most common way of using the dominant chord - deceptive cadence. Deceptive cadence is when the dominant chord doesn't resolve to the tonic, but to another chord, most of the time the VI (in C major this means G7-Am and in C minor this means G7-Ab). Let's look at the voice leading.

G7-Am

G -> A
B -> C
D -> C
F -> E

G7-Ab

G -> Ab
B -> C
D -> C
F -> Eb

Now, if you compare the G7 going to Am to G7 going to C major, you notice that the only difference between them is one note. Am has an A instead of a G. And when you compare Ab to Cm, again, it's just one note different - Ab has an Ab and Cm has a G. What is important is that all of those chords (C, Cm, Am and Ab) have the tonic (C) and the major or minor third (E or Eb) in them as a chord tone, so you still have the B going to C and the F going to either E or Eb.


Then there is the tritone substitution that is pretty common in jazz music, but not that common in other genres. In the key of C, Db7 may also function as the dominant chord (the Db7 is actually kind of mislabeled, which will become obvious when we look at the voice leading, but jazz music doesn't really care about that - the chord symbols are just made as easy to read as possible). Why is this? Let's look at the voice leading.

Db -> C
F -> E
Ab -> G
Cb -> C

Cb going to C looks a bit awkward and this is because the Cb is actually a mislabeled B natural.

Db -> C
F -> E
Ab -> G
B -> C

Now it makes sense. As you may notice, Db7-C also has F resolving to E and B resolving to C. This is why it has a dominant function. Why is this called tritone substitution? Because Db7 is a tritone away from G7. Actually, you could see the Db7 as a G7b9 with Db in the bass. It becomes even more obvious if we lower the fifth of both of the chords (tritone substitutions many times have a lowered fifth - it results in a bit smoother voice leading because this gives the Db7 and C major a common chord tone). If we lower the fifth of Db7, it becomes Db F G B and if we lower the fifth of G7, it becomes G B Db F, and voila, we have exactly the same chord with just a different bass note.

All of this becomes a lot more clear if you actually try it on your instrument. It doesn't make that much sense on paper, but when you hear the sound, it should make perfect sense. Hope this helps.

And Dave_Mc, I don't think we are trying to brag about our knowledge. Most of the people who have replied to this thread have no reason for that. Sometimes you just think that "simple" means "as brief as possible" and kind of just take the basics for granted. In the future I will pay more attention to this.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
Last edited by MaggaraMarine at Oct 24, 2016,
#21
Attached an example of V7 to I, basic version without any of the extra sevenths. This is the dominant function, the basic version that people think about when they say dominant function. Very very common in classical and romantic era music.

V-vi


0:53
Db-Db-Eb-Fm(-Ab)
Eb usually would resolve to Ab... and it does, eventually, but it makes a pit stop at Fm first. That's an evaded, or deceptive cadence. Could be argued as V7-vi by virtue of vocal line singing Db over the Eb major chord.


Tritone subs
No examples of tritones that come to mind atm, but can explain basics of how it works:

V-I in C major is G-C. With the dominant 7th (the minor seventh placed over the dominant major chord - scale degree V is dominant), it becomes G7-C.

G7 has notes G-B-D-F. Within it, there's a tritone: B-F. In terms of voice leading from G7 to C (how do notes go from one group of notes to the next smoothly?), B usually leads up to C and F resolves the opposite way, down to E. This conserves movement, which is good - too much movement makes for less singable lines.

There is one other major-minor 7th chord that has this exact tritone:

Db-F-Ab-Cb, or Db7. (B and Cb sound the same. Also, Db and G are a tritone away. Ha!)

This chord normally resolves to Gb major; however, because of the tritone resolution possibilities, music in jazz (predominantly) sometimes changes a simple V7-I to bII7-I.


edit: lol MM got to it too
Attachments:
ode to joy.gp5
#22
Quote by MaggaraMarine

And Dave_Mc, I don't think we are trying to brag about our knowledge. Most of the people who have replied to this thread have no reason for that. Sometimes you just think that "simple" means "as brief as possible" and kind of just take the basics for granted. In the future I will pay more attention to this.


Thanks. I mean, I wasn't really talking about you, your descriptions are normally great. Just it's a bit weird when I thought I understood his question and by the time I'd read (well, ok, skimmed ) most of the responses I didn't know if I was coming or going.

And fwiw I guess we sometimes do it in the gear forums too, someone wants a simple answer and I'm sure by the time we've finished with them they don't know if they're coming or going either. I try not to, though. I think.
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

#23
Sorry Dave, I'm in the same boat as Mags. I dunno what people already know, and I tend to be excessive in my "default" mode.

To summarize this thread as succintly as possible:

-Usually in a key, the V chord is a dominant 7th chord and resolves to 1. This is a dominant chord, and it functions as a dominant chord.

-"Functioning as a dominant chord" is defined as resolving up a 4th/down a 5th to tonic (G7 - C) or down a half step to tonic (Db7 - C). This works because these chords share a tritone.

-We have a thing called "secondary dominants" where we have dominant 7th chords that are NOT built on scale degree V, but still behave this way. Some examples, all in Cmajor:

C - E7 - Am = I - V7/VI - VI
C - D7 - G = I V7/V V
C - C7 - F = I V7/IV IV

Notice how all these chords function as V7 "of" another scale degree. C7 in the key of C is the V7 chord OF the IV chord, F and resolves appropriately (they share the same relationship). These chords also have dominant function. Also notice (IMPORTANT) all the secondary dominants here have DIATONIC ROOTS. We are not moving to harmonies out of the key (yet) just arriving at them with stronger resolutions thanks to the Dom7 resolution.

-Now what if these chords resolve differently? The other case here is where we have diatonic root Dom7 chords (like D7 E7 and F7 in the key of C) but they resolve in a different way than the aforementioned "dominant function". Examples:

C D7 F
C Ab7 F
Any blues song

As Mags points out, C E7 F (I V7/III IV) does not count here. See my next post for more.

These chords are still dominant 7 chords (because they are built 1 3 5 b7) but they do NOT have dominant function, because they are NOT resolving up a 4th (C7 - F) or down a half step (E7 - Ebmaj7). Notice again, diatonic roots on the Dom7 and resolution chords.

That's 99% of the conversation in this thread. The other 1%: (BEWARE BONUS MATERIAL)

-A "backdoor" dominant is bVII7 - Imaj7 (1 being whatever we are tonicizing). Like so:

Bb7 - Cmaj7

^That counts as having dominant function, for slightly complex reasons that are beyond the scope of OP's question.

-"Deceptive resolutions" like these:

G7 - Abmaj7
G7 - Dbmaj7
G7 - Am
G7 - F#m7b5 (this one is super cool)
(there are many more)

In all these cases, even though the G7 is not resolving as expected (again, up a 4th or down a 1/2 step), the V7 chord (G7) STILL has dominant function. This is also for slightly more complex reasons.

Maybe I should do a thread on dominant chords, if people have any interest.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#24
Quote by Jet Penguin

C E7 F

Isn't this just a deceptive cadence? The E7 would normally resolve to Am but it resolves to F, the VI of Am instead.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#25
^Yes! My bad. Fixed my post; good work. (MORE BONUS MATERIAL INCOMING)

Even though we are in C major, the V7/III -> IV relationship is functionally the same at V7->VI in the relative minor. Good call, this one DOES have Dominant function.

Dominant 7th chords without dominant function are usually (usually meaning pretty much no exceptions here):

I7
IV7
II7
bVII7
bVI7
VII7

^That's an approximate order of most to least common. You don't see VII7 a lot because it's most likely V7/III, but it exists, especially if it isn't "set up" like a V7/III and given its own space.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#26
Quote by Jet Penguin
Sorry Dave, I'm in the same boat as Mags. I dunno what people already know, and I tend to be excessive in my "default" mode.

To summarize this thread as succintly as possible:

-Usually in a key, the V chord is a dominant 7th chord and resolves to 1. This is a dominant chord, and it functions as a dominant chord.

-"Functioning as a dominant chord" is defined as resolving up a 4th/down a 5th to tonic (G7 - C) or down a half step to tonic (Db7 - C). This works because these chords share a tritone.

-We have a thing called "secondary dominants" where we have dominant 7th chords that are NOT built on scale degree V, but still behave this way. Some examples, all in Cmajor:

C - E7 - Am = I - V7/VI - VI
C - D7 - G = I V7/V V
C - C7 - F = I V7/IV IV

Notice how all these chords function as V7 "of" another scale degree. C7 in the key of C is the V7 chord OF the IV chord, F and resolves appropriately (they share the same relationship). These chords also have dominant function. Also notice (IMPORTANT) all the secondary dominants here have DIATONIC ROOTS. We are not moving to harmonies out of the key (yet) just arriving at them with stronger resolutions thanks to the Dom7 resolution.

-Now what if these chords resolve differently? The other case here is where we have diatonic root Dom7 chords (like D7 E7 and F7 in the key of C) but they resolve in a different way than the aforementioned "dominant function". Examples:

C D7 F
C Ab7 F
Any blues song

As Mags points out, C E7 F (I V7/III IV) does not count here. See my next post for more.

These chords are still dominant 7 chords (because they are built 1 3 5 b7) but they do NOT have dominant function, because they are NOT resolving up a 4th (C7 - F) or down a half step (E7 - Ebmaj7). Notice again, diatonic roots on the Dom7 and resolution chords.

That's 99% of the conversation in this thread. The other 1%: (BEWARE BONUS MATERIAL)

-A "backdoor" dominant is bVII7 - Imaj7 (1 being whatever we are tonicizing). Like so:

Bb7 - Cmaj7

^That counts as having dominant function, for slightly complex reasons that are beyond the scope of OP's question.

-"Deceptive resolutions" like these:

G7 - Abmaj7
G7 - Dbmaj7
G7 - Am
G7 - F#m7b5 (this one is super cool)
(there are many more)

In all these cases, even though the G7 is not resolving as expected (again, up a 4th or down a 1/2 step), the V7 chord (G7) STILL has dominant function. This is also for slightly more complex reasons.

Maybe I should do a thread on dominant chords, if people have any interest.



Thanks very much, I think I get most of that. The only bit I'm not sure about is when you say (in the secondary dominants bit):

"C - E7 - Am = I - V7/VI - VI
C - D7 - G = I V7/V V
C - C7 - F = I V7/IV IV"

In the bit where the slash is, does the "V7" refer to the fact it's functioning as a dominant in relation to the chord which comes after it, and then the roman numeral after the slash refers to the chord which comes afterwards (i.e. its scale degree relative to the root)?

For example in the first one there,

C - E7 - Am = I - V7/VI - VI

I is C, E7 is V7 because it's the V degree relative to the Am which comes after it, and the VI after the slash is because Am is the VI in the original key (C)?

Actually after typing all that out I think that probably is what's happening (famous last words ) and if so, then that makes sense, so thanks again.
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

#27
^ Yes.

And Jet, a thread on dominant chords would be interesting.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

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#28
Dave_Mc

I agree with the first two analyses, but the third one is kind of lost without more context. C7 and C are just elaborations of the same chord, so it kind of looks just like C-F, which depending on the song could also argue for F major as key.

If you add a bit more context

C-C7-F-G7-C

I-V7/IV-IV-V-I is fair game

And yeah, secondary chords are chord functions relative to a small area, so V of the next chord. Kinda functions as a dominant in its little area, but not in the whole picture.
#29
^ Thanks.

Quote by MaggaraMarine
^ Yes.

And Jet, a thread on dominant chords would be interesting.


Thanks

And yeah agreed.
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

#30
^Good call on the elaboration.

Dave has it. The slash is read as "of".

V7/VI = V7 OF VI, because the E7 in that example is behaving as the V7 of the VI chord, Am in this case.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#31
Thanks, got it.
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?