#1
Hey guys-

I haven't used a wide array of studio monitors, but I have used several low level non-professional speakers and headphones in the past. I've found that I have always been able to get my mixes to translate pretty well across multiple platforms (relatively speaking, the whole balance is good), although I definitely wouldnt say my mixes sounded fully professional (which I'm okay with). Typically, when I showed them to anybody though, they would give me a good thumbs up on it.

I got the JBL 308s about 8 months ago. Sonically- the speakers sound amazing. When I listen to professional stuff, you can hear incredible detail and I finally could hear that professional polished sound that isnt as noticeable with more inferior sound systems. The listening experience is really enjoyable.

But I've found that I haven't been able to get a decent quality well balanced mix ever since Ive started using them. My mix will sound pretty good in my room, better than my old mixes seemed to sound; but they don't translate for shit. They will sound horrible in casual headphone earbuds and very poor in the car. The mix will usually sound okay at really low volumes, but when I start turning it up it totally falls apart. It is usually the kick or snare will be wayy too loud (even though it sounds good and balanced in my room), and/or the overall mix will be terribly harsh and painful; there is almost always a balance issue and it is shocking to me because it is so obvious anywhere else that I go. I will notice the faults in like 2 seconds when I listen in my car; but in my space it will sound fine.

I understand that part of the challenge is room treatment (although, my room is better treated now than it was when I used other speakers). I have bass traps in 3/4 corners in my room and I have some 4" thick owens corning panels that I can work with.

Anybody use them, or have any tips? It seems after 8 months, I still dont have them figured out and cant really get a mix to resemble anything like I used to be able to do
Quote by suckmahnuts
Watterboy, I love you.

Quote by davrossss
You are now my favourite person on UG.....You write cool shit.

Quote by wannabestoner69


#2
I'd like to know what level you mix at in the room... the snare/bass creep is a common issue when mixing at lower volumes as smaller monitors have trouble translating the transient response properly, and the 305s are known to have a fairly forward upper-mid range (all JBLs do, to be fair). Hopefully you mix at a level where, when talking, your voice is just slightly lost in the mix. Loko at renting an SPL meter from your local music store and setting yourself to the 75-85dB range, this ensures that your cones are moving the perfect amount of air, but still maintain a crisp response on transients.

It would also be good to see how the speakers are positioned from both the mixing position and in the room in general. Overall, the 305s are fantastic nearfields for the cost, but with all nearfields, positioning is vital to them translating mixes well to other systems.

This could also by a symptom of OVER-processing drums. I do it ALL the time, but I've learned how to adjust my levels to compensate.
Quote by Watterboy
Do you have any dilithium crystals or fresh warm dumps for sale
#3
Quote by the chemist
I'd like to know what level you mix at in the room... the snare/bass creep is a common issue when mixing at lower volumes as smaller monitors have trouble translating the transient response properly, and the 305s are known to have a fairly forward upper-mid range (all JBLs do, to be fair). Hopefully you mix at a level where, when talking, your voice is just slightly lost in the mix. Loko at renting an SPL meter from your local music store and setting yourself to the 75-85dB range, this ensures that your cones are moving the perfect amount of air, but still maintain a crisp response on transients.

It would also be good to see how the speakers are positioned from both the mixing position and in the room in general. Overall, the 305s are fantastic nearfields for the cost, but with all nearfields, positioning is vital to them translating mixes well to other systems.

This could also by a symptom of OVER-processing drums. I do it ALL the time, but I've learned how to adjust my levels to compensate.


I'm thinking it could be because I am mixing at too low of a volume maybe. The volume that Ive been mixing at, my voice is slightly louder than the mix; I'll have to check with a meter. I also notice that I can't really "feel" anything. Like in my car, I can feel the kick and it is a dead give away. In my room, there is no feeling whatsoever and it makes things seem harsher and harder to judge their volume level. Could it be because my speaker stands are on carpet?
Quote by suckmahnuts
Watterboy, I love you.

Quote by davrossss
You are now my favourite person on UG.....You write cool shit.

Quote by wannabestoner69


#4
Quote by Watterboy
I'm thinking it could be because I am mixing at too low of a volume maybe. The volume that Ive been mixing at, my voice is slightly louder than the mix; I'll have to check with a meter. I also notice that I can't really "feel" anything. Like in my car, I can feel the kick and it is a dead give away. In my room, there is no feeling whatsoever and it makes things seem harsher and harder to judge their volume level. Could it be because my speaker stands are on carpet?


Nah. Your stands wouldn't matter on carpet or hard floor as much as the layout of the room. Are the stands a hollow tube though?
Quote by Watterboy
Do you have any dilithium crystals or fresh warm dumps for sale
#5
Quote by the chemist
Nah. Your stands wouldn't matter on carpet or hard floor as much as the layout of the room. Are the stands a hollow tube though?

Why yes- yes they are. I think they are sort of cheap stands to be honest. They've held up okay, but they are probably $50 stands (they came free with a set of krk rokit 5s that I got).

Thanks for the help by the way man
Quote by suckmahnuts
Watterboy, I love you.

Quote by davrossss
You are now my favourite person on UG.....You write cool shit.

Quote by wannabestoner69


#6
No problem.

Are you able to fill those stands with sand or something to remove their inherent air column and add weight?
Quote by Watterboy
Do you have any dilithium crystals or fresh warm dumps for sale
#7
Quote by the chemist
No problem.

Are you able to fill those stands with sand or something to remove their inherent air column and add weight?

Yes, I could do that. I have read that recommendation online in several places too actually - I just didn't think it would make a big difference in the low end. But there is a huge difference in how bass sounds in my room vs how it sounds in a car or with speakers outdoors in a big space or something
Quote by suckmahnuts
Watterboy, I love you.

Quote by davrossss
You are now my favourite person on UG.....You write cool shit.

Quote by wannabestoner69


#8
Quote by Watterboy
Yes, I could do that. I have read that recommendation online in several places too actually - I just didn't think it would make a big difference in the low end. But there is a huge difference in how bass sounds in my room vs how it sounds in a car or with speakers outdoors in a big space or something


Sounds like nodal interference, meaning the room isn't set up properly.
Quote by Watterboy
Do you have any dilithium crystals or fresh warm dumps for sale
#9
Quote by the chemist
Sounds like nodal interference, meaning the room isn't set up properly.

Not sure where else to turn - I have made many minor adjustments to my listening and speaker locations, moved bass traps around, opened and closed doors (3 of the 4 corners of the room have doors), and I have made MAJOR layout changes, such as trying 3 out of the 4 different walls, re-arranging furniture (I have two 412 stacks in here as well as some other stuff).

My room is about 11' wide, 7' tall, and 15' long. Im in a finished basement, so the walls are sheet rock, floor is carpeted. I dont have a mixing desk really; my speakers are on stands and Im sitting at an equilateral triangle and I have little barstools for my mouse, keyboard and rme babyface
Quote by suckmahnuts
Watterboy, I love you.

Quote by davrossss
You are now my favourite person on UG.....You write cool shit.

Quote by wannabestoner69


#10
How far from the wall behind the speakers are you?

Where in the room are you, the middle or a corner?

What treatment do you have?

If you sweep a sine wave up and down through the frequencies, do any really stand out as louder?

Some tips:

- Position monitors against the longest wall

- Ensure that the height of your monitors is either slightly above, or slightly below the mid-way point between the floor and ceiling.

- create the maximum separation between the wall and the monitors that the room-size will allow, between 1-2 feet.

- Head positioning:

*Center your chair between the side walls to maintain symmetrical stereo image.
*Set the chair height so your head is NOT halfway between the ceiling and floor.
*Set the chair/desk position so that it is NOT halfway between the front and back walls.
*Measure and compare the distances on all 3 dimensions to ensure they’re neither the same, nor exact multiples of each other.

- The MAJORITY of that speaker energy is focused directly at you and the wall behind your head. Diffuse the hell out of that back wall. Egg cartons are great, get the big ones from cafeterias. Other options are bookselves with big bulky knick knacks.

Can you get pictures of the space how it's set up?
Quote by Watterboy
Do you have any dilithium crystals or fresh warm dumps for sale
#11
Also, look at "LF Trim" on the back, sound like you have to shave off some on your current setup. I remember spending quite a lot of time playing around with the LF and HF trims when I used higher end JBL's in the studio to get them properly calibrated. Do that using mixes that you know, in my case it was AC/DC "Back In Black" and Scorpions "Humanity".
#12
Quote by the chemist
How far from the wall behind the speakers are you?

Where in the room are you, the middle or a corner?

What treatment do you have?

If you sweep a sine wave up and down through the frequencies, do any really stand out as louder?

Some tips:

- Position monitors against the longest wall

- Ensure that the height of your monitors is either slightly above, or slightly below the mid-way point between the floor and ceiling.

- create the maximum separation between the wall and the monitors that the room-size will allow, between 1-2 feet.

- Head positioning:

*Center your chair between the side walls to maintain symmetrical stereo image.
*Set the chair height so your head is NOT halfway between the ceiling and floor.
*Set the chair/desk position so that it is NOT halfway between the front and back walls.
*Measure and compare the distances on all 3 dimensions to ensure they’re neither the same, nor exact multiples of each other.

- The MAJORITY of that speaker energy is focused directly at you and the wall behind your head. Diffuse the hell out of that back wall. Egg cartons are great, get the big ones from cafeterias. Other options are bookselves with big bulky knick knacks.

Can you get pictures of the space how it's set up?


Here is a panorama of my room:
https://postimg.org/image/rn1ta6kvj/
As I said, the room is about 15' long, 11' wide, and 7' tall

I've tried changing the heights of my speakers all crazy with all different dimensions, but there is never a dramatic change that resembles the amount of bass that I feel in other listening environments, and I've tried all sorts of arrangements in my room. Currently, the speakers are shooting down the long length of my room.

Quote by diabolical
Also, look at "LF Trim" on the back, sound like you have to shave off some on your current setup. I remember spending quite a lot of time playing around with the LF and HF trims when I used higher end JBL's in the studio to get them properly calibrated. Do that using mixes that you know, in my case it was AC/DC "Back In Black" and Scorpions "Humanity".


The JBL 308s have a HF and LF 2db boost or cut. Doesnt seem to make a big difference though.

When I sweep a sine wave, it sounds like there is a bit of a null around 100hz; also, frequencies above about 3500hz seem like they are really loud and harsh sounding.
Quote by suckmahnuts
Watterboy, I love you.

Quote by davrossss
You are now my favourite person on UG.....You write cool shit.

Quote by wannabestoner69


#13
You could possibly push away from the back wall some and using acoustic treatment panels on both sides of your listening position at ear level or actually try setting up where you have your amps. Seems to me like you're in a long narrow tube as to where you are now.
#14
Quote by diabolical
You could possibly push away from the back wall some and using acoustic treatment panels on both sides of your listening position at ear level or actually try setting up where you have your amps. Seems to me like you're in a long narrow tube as to where you are now.


I agree with this.

Some thoughts:

Set yourself up on the longest wall.

Raise the monitors up a foot or so.

Sit back further, and angler the speakers a bit flatter (not quite as sharp into the listening position)

Bring them a few feet from the wall behind them.

What I like to do is sir in my mixing position and hold my arms out straight in front of me with my fingers straight vertically, then open them up about 6 inches and angled slightly up. They should be pointing into the middle line of your monitors (vertically) and then position the monitors about a foot and a half past your finger tips.
Quote by Watterboy
Do you have any dilithium crystals or fresh warm dumps for sale
#15
the chemisti feel like i need a diagram or a photo of your setup; I got a little lost in you and diabolical's description.

I did notice last night that if i bring my monitors closer together, like 1.5' to 2' apart, and have them much lower to the ground (like 2 feet off the ground), then it seems to sound more realistic in the low end, like other places. But it is like impossible for me to sit and have my ear level between the woofers and tweeters and see my computer screen, unless im lying down lol
Quote by suckmahnuts
Watterboy, I love you.

Quote by davrossss
You are now my favourite person on UG.....You write cool shit.

Quote by wannabestoner69


#16
One of the problems (after a few weeks of reviewing the picture and trying to see what can be done, is that you're using an unorthodox (TV, no desk setup) in lieu of a desk with monitor(s). While tricky it can be done.



Note this isn't in exact scale but it gets the point across.

First, never put a sub in the middle of the monitoring. Put of off to the side. I personally lever mix music with a sub anyways, especially rock or metal.

The whole set up is based in the middle (7.5') of the long wall facing AWAY from the doors. Note the monitors are sideways tweeters out. I prefer this to vertical monitors. Get a stand for your TV, it will also give you some storage room.

For how to put the monitors with height, use this as a guide (no dimensions however):

Quote by Watterboy
Do you have any dilithium crystals or fresh warm dumps for sale
#17
Quote by the chemist
One of the problems (after a few weeks of reviewing the picture and trying to see what can be done, is that you're using an unorthodox (TV, no desk setup) in lieu of a desk with monitor(s). While tricky it can be done.



Note this isn't in exact scale but it gets the point across.

First, never put a sub in the middle of the monitoring. Put of off to the side. I personally lever mix music with a sub anyways, especially rock or metal.

The whole set up is based in the middle (7.5') of the long wall facing AWAY from the doors. Note the monitors are sideways tweeters out. I prefer this to vertical monitors. Get a stand for your TV, it will also give you some storage room.

For how to put the monitors with height, use this as a guide (no dimensions however):



Thanks!
Quote by suckmahnuts
Watterboy, I love you.

Quote by davrossss
You are now my favourite person on UG.....You write cool shit.

Quote by wannabestoner69


#18
the chemist. Can i ask why you like putting your monitors on their side?
Quote by suckmahnuts
Watterboy, I love you.

Quote by davrossss
You are now my favourite person on UG.....You write cool shit.

Quote by wannabestoner69


#19
Quote by Watterboy
the chemist. Can i ask why you like putting your monitors on their side?


Just a preference. I find for me it makes the stereo spectrum a bit cleaner, and ensures that the tweeters and cone are pointed at the same location. Sometimes the snare and other mid heavy info that has localization data can get lost in the normal way. This is all my preferences and notices, mind you, and your mileage may vary.
Quote by Watterboy
Do you have any dilithium crystals or fresh warm dumps for sale