#1


http://www.kieselguitars.com/catalog/guitars/jb200c

I just remembered that it has a Tung Oiled neck and I heard from a member on here that they can be a bit of a pain in the ass(they get really dirty) and don't protect the neck very well compared too Satin or Gloss finishes.

This is my dream guitar though, wanted it for a few years now and from what I've heard Carvin are willing too slightly customize the guitar for buyers(like making it with a 10', 12' or 14' radius fretboard) but can you request another finish like Satin?

What's your opinion of the guitar?
Last edited by jordandeir at Nov 12, 2016,
#2
Given the choice between gloss, satin and oiled necks, oiled would be my first choice. I've got all three, and between them it just feels the nicest to play on. I wouldn't think it would get too dirty so long as you take care of it - I've had my Jackson DK2MHT for nearly a year now, and while I admit I've not played it as much as some might, I can't see any sign of the back of the neck getting dirty. It looks just as clean as the day I bought it.

I suppose to an extent it might depend on the environment and the particular qualities of your very own brand of sweat, but it's not something I would overly worry about. Just wipe it down when you're done and enjoy.

I can remember looking at that particular Carvin before, it looks pretty sweet to me - but then I do have a weakness for a maple fretboard! You can always try asking them if they'll change a spec besides the ones that their guitar builder page allows. The worst they can do is say no.
#3
Quote by Confuse-a-Cat
Given the choice between gloss, satin and oiled necks, oiled would be my first choice. I've got all three, and between them it just feels the nicest to play on. I wouldn't think it would get too dirty so long as you take care of it - I've had my Jackson DK2MHT for nearly a year now, and while I admit I've not played it as much as some might, I can't see any sign of the back of the neck getting dirty. It looks just as clean as the day I bought it.

I suppose to an extent it might depend on the environment and the particular qualities of your very own brand of sweat, but it's not something I would overly worry about. Just wipe it down when you're done and enjoy.

I can remember looking at that particular Carvin before, it looks pretty sweet to me - but then I do have a weakness for a maple fretboard! You can always try asking them if they'll change a spec besides the ones that their guitar builder page allows. The worst they can do is say no.


Interesting, so you prefer oiled necks? I just want a neck that will feel good(no sticky/muddy feeling) and that has durability/will last me.

Everything else about the guitar is amazing, it's got a beautiful flame maple fretboard, flame maple deep blue burst finish, tons of tonal options, thin neck profile, an OFR, Black hardware...

I just wish I could have a couple of years with the guitar before I buy it haha, make sure it's for me. But, unfortuntely, Carvin guitars require you to buy them straight from them, you can't go into(or atleast, not where I live) a guitar shop and just try out their guitars. You just have to research the specs and guess or assume they'd feel good too you.

It is a truly beautiful guitar, very affordable for a signature guitar.
Last edited by jordandeir at Nov 12, 2016,
#4
A couple of comments on my experiences with this kind of Carvin (I have seven at last count).

1. You can get a satin-finished neck and I'd absolutely suggest that over the tung-oil finished neck. If you use the guitar much at all (I think you'll want to make the evaluation at something beyond a year or two), it's a bad choice for dirt and moisture resistance. Go with the satin finish instead.

2. Black chrome hardware wears a bit faster than standard chrome -- more on a pace with nickel finishes.

3. I believe he guitar comes with a straight pull standard, rather than the tilted pointy shown, but you'll want to ask to confirm. Tilted pointy headstocks are the second most broken headstock (after Les Pauls), and they usually break between the first and second tuner. The straight pull headstock can withstand some brutal handling. That said, I do have one tilted pointy from Carvin (though I treat it like glass).

4, It's a 25" scale guitar rather than a 25.5" scale. It has 24 frets rather than 22. All of this is good as far as I'm concerned, but you want to be aware of what you're getting. For a single year (1991) Carvin made a 25.5" scale neck-through guitar (tons of bolt necks, though) and it was so bady received that until recently they wouldn't even consider building another. I have one of the few ever to escape (it's a solid Koa guitar with the tilted pointy headstock, btw). Worth noting that Jason's original guitar was a 24.75" scale guitar, if that quarter inch makes a difference to you. It's a tribute, not a duplicate.

5. You can get 10, 12, 14" radius fretboards, stainless frets, jumbo frets, gold frets, etc. etc. as optional choices on all Carvins, You can probably get a 20" radius if you like, and if you don't care for the blue, you can get a couple of dozen other finish choices (if you're not a Jason Becker fanboi).

6. The M22SD that comes standard in the bridge is a properly raucous rock pickup, and I have it in at least three guitars (including the V220 and one of my DC150s), but I think you may be disappointed in the M22V in the neck. I recommend the C22N (a newer pickup) or something else there. Might be a five-buck upcharge.

My Carvins cover a pretty wide era from about 1988 (the V220, Marty Friedman's favorite) through the early 90's, and the most recent a 2006 DC-145 (HSH three-pickup configuration otherwise similar to your choice).
Last edited by dspellman at Nov 12, 2016,
#5
Quote by dspellman
For a single year (1991) Carvin made a 25.5" scale neck-through guitar (tons of bolt necks, though) and it was so bady received that until recently they wouldn't even consider building another.


haha wow why was that?
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

#6
Quote by Dave_Mc
haha wow why was that?


Carvin was well known for producing some fire-breathing 24-fret 24.75" scale superstrat guitars. For some reason, they decided that they could do a neck-through strat, with a real strat-style body (more rounded horns instead of pointed) and a real strat scale (25.5"). They even designed the guitar with three single coils.



Carvin customers *hated* it. It was SO emphatically rejected that it was produced for only the one year and there are *very* few of them on the ground. Carvin was so embarrassed by the reception it got that the Kiesel family (it's a family-owned business) roundly refused to build another for at least 25 years after that (I know, I asked). Some of the unused necks were still around for six months to a year afterward, and since the guitar body shape was actually determined by the body "wings" that were added on, there are some interesting variants out there, including some V220 guitars with the longer scale. Mine is a solid koa (neck and body) with a pointier superstrat body, HSH pickup configuration, hard tail bridge, five-way, coil taps and a bridge add-in switch. It's got a ebony fretboard, dot inlays, gold hardware. I'm not the original owner, and it came with an oil finish. That would have been very pretty when new, but over time it's become very dirty, and it will take a sand-down to get to a level where the dirt hasn't penetrated (never get an oil finish on a body unless the guitar will live under your bed). So when I bought it, I was getting a dirty guitar with pickups that didn't work (the owner had swapped out the pickups and then swapped them back in when he sold the guitar and he was an idiot, and the pickups were shorted, badly soldered, etc., etc) and one that had a poor interest level among Carvin players. But the price was right.

I ripped out all of the electronics, replaced them with current C22 pickups, new pots and switching, etc., and the guitar now sounds and plays great. At some point I'll refinish it correctly, but for now it's extremely rare because it was such a black sheep.
#7
Quote by dspellman
A couple of comments on my experiences with this kind of Carvin (I have seven at last count).

1. You can get a satin-finished neck and I'd absolutely suggest that over the tung-oil finished neck. If you use the guitar much at all (I think you'll want to make the evaluation at something beyond a year or two), it's a bad choice for dirt and moisture resistance. Go with the satin finish instead.

2. Black chrome hardware wears a bit faster than standard chrome -- more on a pace with nickel finishes.

3. I believe he guitar comes with a straight pull standard, rather than the tilted pointy shown, but you'll want to ask to confirm. Tilted pointy headstocks are the second most broken headstock (after Les Pauls), and they usually break between the first and second tuner. The straight pull headstock can withstand some brutal handling. That said, I do have one tilted pointy from Carvin (though I treat it like glass).

4, It's a 25" scale guitar rather than a 25.5" scale. It has 24 frets rather than 22. All of this is good as far as I'm concerned, but you want to be aware of what you're getting. For a single year (1991) Carvin made a 25.5" scale neck-through guitar (tons of bolt necks, though) and it was so bady received that until recently they wouldn't even consider building another. I have one of the few ever to escape (it's a solid Koa guitar with the tilted pointy headstock, btw). Worth noting that Jason's original guitar was a 24.75" scale guitar, if that quarter inch makes a difference to you. It's a tribute, not a duplicate.

5. You can get 10, 12, 14" radius fretboards, stainless frets, jumbo frets, gold frets, etc. etc. as optional choices on all Carvins, You can probably get a 20" radius if you like, and if you don't care for the blue, you can get a couple of dozen other finish choices (if you're not a Jason Becker fanboi).

6. The M22SD that comes standard in the bridge is a properly raucous rock pickup, and I have it in at least three guitars (including the V220 and one of my DC150s), but I think you may be disappointed in the M22V in the neck. I recommend the C22N (a newer pickup) or something else there. Might be a five-buck upcharge.

My Carvins cover a pretty wide era from about 1988 (the V220, Marty Friedman's favorite) through the early 90's, and the most recent a 2006 DC-145 (HSH three-pickup configuration otherwise similar to your choice).


dspellman! Glad you commented.

What you said in my other thread asking about the difference between tung and satin necks was really informative and you definitely didn't disappoint here. Thanks for clearing up my question about the Satin finish option, definitely puts me at ease knowing I can get one if I ask for it.

So, the headstock needs to be straight pull. Does that mean I'd have to go with an entirely different headstock than the one featured? I mean in shape, I rather like the shape of the headstock that's featured on this guitar, part of the reason I think it's so beautiful.

That's good to know that I can get a flatter radius. 16" would be perfect for me, but I thought 14 was the flattest that was offered.

I'll look into the different neck pup as well.

Thanks again for the very informative and experienced advice.
#8
^ haha wow. just going by the cosmetics, that doesn't really look quite right- i always think SSS with a floyd just doesn't quite look right (and no pickguard exacerbates that). i'm guessing what you did to it was an improvement
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

#9
Quote by Dave_Mc
^ haha wow. just going by the cosmetics, that doesn't really look quite right- i always think SSS with a floyd just doesn't quite look right (and no pickguard exacerbates that). i'm guessing what you did to it was an improvement


Honestly, the shape of their early super strat bodies always felt a bit off to me, but they changed it at some point (I'm to lazy to do the research) and now it feels much better balanced, visually. Unfortunately, my 1991 is one of the old ones, but it's grown on me. Interestingly, it's a 15" radius. Carvin has changed its standard radius now and again over the years, starting with a 12", then moving to a 15", and at one point in the early 2000's went to a 12-16" compound radius, then back to a 12 and I think the stock radius might currently be a 14". I don't know if you can get a 16", but you can certainly get a 20". Not *that* much difference between a 14" and a 16" in practice.
#10
Quote by jordandeir
dspellman!

So, the headstock needs to be straight pull. Does that mean I'd have to go with an entirely different headstock than the one featured? I mean in shape, I rather like the shape of the headstock that's featured on this guitar, part of the reason I think it's so beautiful. .


The bad news is that the straight pull headstock has a sort of blunted end and isn't as pretty as the tilted pointy version. Just be aware of where you point that thing if you go with the tilted one.




There WAS a straight pull version with the same look as the tilted version, and I've got one of those, too. Mine's a '93, and that's another feature that wasn't around for more than about three years. I don't remember what occasioned the blunted version, but there was a lot of outcry about that as well. I think the straight pull with the pointy end was one of the best looking headstocks they ever had.

Last edited by dspellman at Nov 13, 2016,
#11
Quote by dspellman
The bad news is that the straight pull headstock has a sort of blunted end and isn't as pretty as the tilted pointy version. Just be aware of where you point that thing if you go with the tilted one.




There WAS a straight pull version with the same look as the tilted version, and I've got one of those, too. Mine's a '93, and that's another feature that wasn't around for more than about three years. I don't remember what occasioned the blunted version, but there was a lot of outcry about that as well. I think the straight pull with the pointy end was one of the best looking headstocks they ever had.



That's actually very disappointing... almost, if not completely dealbreaking tbh. That headstock just makes the guitar looks amazing, besides all of the other obviously beautiful features. That rounded option you posted looks like complete crap haha.

I definitely don't want to pay 1800(without taxes, the exchange rate, SnH etc included) just to have the headstock be lacking in durability.

A question about another guitar brand with a similar headstock.

Jackson guitars, do they often end up with broken headstocks?
#12
Quote by jordandeir

A question about another guitar brand with a similar headstock.

Jackson guitars, do they often end up with broken headstocks?


I've seen a few around the net, but not that many. I've seen far more that have had a chips taken out of the end of the from where it's been smacked against something, but the headstock as a whole is still intact. RRs and King Vs usually have matching chips on the ends of the wings.

I expect they might break if you dropped them onto a hard floor, but if you're just knocking them against stuff when you're playing you'll probably just get cosmetic damage.

For what it's worth my 3 Jackson pointies are all pristine, but then I am quite careful with them.
#15
dspellman

Just to clear something up really quick, when you say the tilted pointy headstocks are the second most broken headstock, we're talking about if you hit them off of anything right?

They won't break just due to string tension or something else will they?
#16
Quote by Fumble fingers
that head stock is a available option for quite a few models now ..... Jeff Kiesel is live talking and answering questions a few times a week on facebook .....
Thanks, just liked him FB. Can't wait to start getting notifications and videos.
#17
Quote by jordandeir
dspellman

Just to clear something up really quick, when you say the tilted pointy headstocks are the second most broken headstock, we're talking about if you hit them off of anything right?

They won't break just due to string tension or something else will they?


Not that I know of. I've never confirmed one that's done that.
#19
also join Kiesel Guitars Carvin Guitars FB page , he comes on there along with his right hand man Manny
#20
Quote by dspellman
Honestly, the shape of their early super strat bodies always felt a bit off to me, but they changed it at some point (I'm to lazy to do the research) and now it feels much better balanced, visually. Unfortunately, my 1991 is one of the old ones, but it's grown on me. Interestingly, it's a 15" radius. Carvin has changed its standard radius now and again over the years, starting with a 12", then moving to a 15", and at one point in the early 2000's went to a 12-16" compound radius, then back to a 12 and I think the stock radius might currently be a 14". I don't know if you can get a 16", but you can certainly get a 20". Not *that* much difference between a 14" and a 16" in practice.


yeah the one you posted looked a bit off, as you said. they look a bit better now (again, as you said ).

And yeah i don't notice a massive difference between 14 and 16" either. there's a big difference between 7.25" and 9.5", then a bit of a difference between that and 12", not a massive amount of difference up to 14 or 16" or so (though 16" probably does feel a bit flatter than 12"), and then totally flat feels a good bit flatter i think.
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

#21
Was fooling around with the custom options today, I think I'm better off just taking the body shape of the JB200C and recreating it, because you get more options that way.

Pretty much nothing from I could see was customizable on the JB200C... including a Satin Neck
#22
Quote by Confuse-a-Cat
I've seen a few around the net, but not that many. I've seen far more that have had a chips taken out of the end of the from where it's been smacked against something, but the headstock as a whole is still intact. RRs and King Vs usually have matching chips on the ends of the wings.

I expect they might break if you dropped them onto a hard floor, but if you're just knocking them against stuff when you're playing you'll probably just get cosmetic damage.

For what it's worth my 3 Jackson pointies are all pristine, but then I am quite careful with them.


+1 I have 5 Jacksons with pointy headstocks plus a 89 Charvel Fusion Custom also pointy all are pristine and everyone was purchased used in fact I have only had the Charvel for aboyr 8 months now so it survived for 27 at the hand of someone else possible more than one FWIW I have a 1987 Kramer with an angled pointy also pristine also purchased used from a pawn shop about two years ago neither the Charvel or the Kramer came with a case.

I guess it depends on how much you abuse your guitar or what kind of a stage show you put on if you gig.
"A well-wound coil is a well-wound coil regardless if it's wound with professional equipment, or if somebody's great-grandmother winds it to an old French recipe with Napoleon's modified coffee grinder and chops off the wire after a mile with an antique guillotine!"
- Bill Lawrence

Come and be with me
Live my twisted dream
Pro devoted pledge
Time for primal concrete sledge

#23
Quote by jordandeir
Was fooling around with the custom options today, I think I'm better off just taking the body shape of the JB200C and recreating it, because you get more options that way.

Pretty much nothing from I could see was customizable on the JB200C... including a Satin Neck

That's because it was a sig guitar. You can find the same body shape elsewhere in the Carvin pantheon and customize to your heart's content.
#24
Quote by Evilnine
+1 I have 5 Jacksons with pointy headstocks plus a 89 Charvel Fusion Custom also pointy all are pristine and everyone was purchased used in fact I have only had the Charvel for aboyr 8 months now so it survived for 27 at the hand of someone else possible more than one FWIW I have a 1987 Kramer with an angled pointy also pristine also purchased used from a pawn shop about two years ago neither the Charvel or the Kramer came with a case.

I guess it depends on how much you abuse your guitar or what kind of a stage show you put on if you gig.


If your point was that not all pointies are broken, you're correct. Nonetheless, a tilted pointy headstock is the most broken after the Les Paul's. It really doesn't have all that much to do with abuse or stage shows, either. A lot of them are broken in the case during ordinary handling.
#25
Quote by dspellman
That's because it was a sig guitar. You can find the same body shape elsewhere in the Carvin pantheon and customize to your heart's content.


Right, that's what I was saying. Just find the same body shape, the ST300 with the same hardware confirguartions as an option and had a bunch of things you could do to it.
Last edited by jordandeir at Nov 16, 2016,
#26
Quote by dspellman
If your point was that not all pointies are broken, you're correct. Nonetheless, a tilted pointy headstock is the most broken after the Les Paul's. It really doesn't have all that much to do with abuse or stage shows, either. A lot of them are broken in the case during ordinary handling.


IDK if your headstock is getting broke while the guitar is in its case then that does not seem like ordinary handling or a case of an inferior case (pun intended) but I see your point especially during shipping. I like my cases to be custom molded inside to the specific guitar shape if at all possible.

The point I was trying to make is that IMO the possiblity of a pointy angle headstock breaking isn't so great that I would let it discourage me from buying one.
"A well-wound coil is a well-wound coil regardless if it's wound with professional equipment, or if somebody's great-grandmother winds it to an old French recipe with Napoleon's modified coffee grinder and chops off the wire after a mile with an antique guillotine!"
- Bill Lawrence

Come and be with me
Live my twisted dream
Pro devoted pledge
Time for primal concrete sledge

#27
I've played that model Carvin and it was a fantastic guitar. even though I no longer use super strats or Floyd Roses if I had had the money I would have bought that guitar. super fast neck an it sounded great.