#1

A friend of mine sent me this link. It's pretty mind-blowing.

#2

I've heard it has healing powers, and that the Illuminati moved it up to 440 for our misery.

#3

I've heard that it makes you cool and better than all of those ordinary boring musicians.

#4

This video is pseudoscience 101.

#5

**MaggaraMarine**Did you watch all of it, MM? There's an awful lot of coincidences coming together here.

#6

Specialist: Give her six quavers, then pause.

Technician: She sent us four quavers, a group of five quavers, a group of four semi-quavers

Technician: She sent us four quavers, a group of five quavers, a group of four semi-quavers

#7

More like amusing:A friend of mine sent me this link. It's pretty mind-blowing.

"We seem to be encountering a lot of 12s and 60s. Are they related? And if so how? To answer that piece of the puzzle, we must travel 5,000 years back in time..."

#8

I tune using A4 = 442.5

#9

Is that so you can be irritatingly sharp of everyone else?I tune using A4 = 442.5

#10

Where are the 420 jokes? I thought this was the internet.

#11

**jerrykramskoy**

Yes, I watched the whole video. I'm not sure if you seriously buy into it, but there were inaccuracies in the video (432 Hz has never been a "standard tuning", and the video also pretty much completely ignores tuning systems as a whole - it does mention Pythagorean tuning, but that tuning system is not perfect and only works well for fifths and makes the major third sound even more out of tune than in equal temperament. It did work well for old music that was more based on fifths and thirds weren't used that often, but applying it to more modern music makes little sense. Also, the whole thing about "432^2 = light speed (measured in

**miles per second**)" was just stupid - we are talking about two completely different units that just aren't related to each other. And also, it wasn't exactly the speed of light, it was just an approximation). Also, some of the "coincidences" were pretty far fetched (the stuff about Free Masons and "dividing a number by another number = 432"). Also, the overall vibe I got from the video was the same I get from conspiracy stuff. It's like "here is all of the stuff that could be interpreted as supporting my claim" without presenting any counter arguments or evaluating the evidence critically.

Also, the thing about the different shapes making up an F# major triad... Well, that's basic stuff and has to do with the overtone series. The sum of the angles of a triangle is 180 degrees. When you add a side to a polygon, it increases the sum of the angles by 180 degrees. So the sum of the angles of any polygon is always a multiple of 180. It's the same thing with the overtone series - all of the overtones are multiples of the fundamental. In this case 180 would be the fundamental frequency. It's not a coincidence - that's just how the overtone series works.

If you think about it rationally, why would it matter which frequency we tune our A to? Even if we used 432 Hz for A, it wouldn't change anything because we use 12 tone equal temperament (whose whole point is to make all keys sound the same). Also, when it comes to tuning systems, many cultures don't even use a 12 tone system. So all these "magical" numbers that the video talked about don't necessarily even fit the music of different cultures (and really not even western music because of our tuning systems - western music is many times too complex to work in "natural tuning", and this is why we need a compromise like equal temperament).

But I doubt anybody here is taking the video seriously so whatever.

*Last edited by MaggaraMarine at Nov 14, 2016,*

#12

it's honestly just a gimmick. if you listened to 432 Hz music without knowing it was 432 Hz, you would never be able to tell the difference unless you have perfect pitch

#13

It was the guy who said he'd been given the secret formula by extra-terrestrials that nailed it for me...

F = 1/t

That makes me think the whole video is a spoof. It's tantamount to saying the secret formula for speed is... miles per hour!

Wow, how come nobody knows that! It's obviously been kept from us by a mysterious conspiracy....

F = 1/t

That makes me think the whole video is a spoof. It's tantamount to saying the secret formula for speed is... miles per hour!

Wow, how come nobody knows that! It's obviously been kept from us by a mysterious conspiracy....

*Last edited by jongtr at Nov 14, 2016,*

#14

12 is the lowest common factor of 2, 3, and 4

60 is the lowest common factor of 2, 3, 4, and 5

That's why those numbers are so commonly used as a base. But human beings decided to divide the day into 12 hours. They could just have easily divided it into 20 hours with each hour containing 50 minutes each divided into 50 seconds. A second then would be a different length.

There is no natural reason for the length of a second. The actual length of time we call a second is a completely arbitrary determination by human beings that we have all agreed upon for the purpose of convenience.

Similarly the number of degrees in a circle is an arbitrary distinction. We used a base 12 multiplied by 60. We could have used a decimal base and divided the circle into 100 degrees. (or any other division)

The frequency 432Hz is a discreet measurement. It is a measurement of 423 vibrations per second. But the length of a second is arbitrary. If we divided the day in some other random way that resulted in the length of a second being slightly longer or shorter then that exact same frequency would have resulted in a different numerical representation and NOT 432. The same frequency could just as easily have been 440Hz if the second was a different length. (which it could easily have been)

So the entire theory falls apart because it all relies on the number 432 and not the actual pitch itself.

A good example of this is the "evidence" put forward by the fact that the moon is 2160 miles in diameter which divided by ten is 216 and doubled is 432. Yet if you used kilometres the moon is 3474 kilometres. Also, the moon is 2159 miles in diameter but it must have annoyed the producer of the video that it was just one mile short of fitting into his crackpot theory.

But all you really need to do is listen to this video point by point to realize that it's complete nonsense.

60 is the lowest common factor of 2, 3, 4, and 5

That's why those numbers are so commonly used as a base. But human beings decided to divide the day into 12 hours. They could just have easily divided it into 20 hours with each hour containing 50 minutes each divided into 50 seconds. A second then would be a different length.

There is no natural reason for the length of a second. The actual length of time we call a second is a completely arbitrary determination by human beings that we have all agreed upon for the purpose of convenience.

Similarly the number of degrees in a circle is an arbitrary distinction. We used a base 12 multiplied by 60. We could have used a decimal base and divided the circle into 100 degrees. (or any other division)

The frequency 432Hz is a discreet measurement. It is a measurement of 423 vibrations per second. But the length of a second is arbitrary. If we divided the day in some other random way that resulted in the length of a second being slightly longer or shorter then that exact same frequency would have resulted in a different numerical representation and NOT 432. The same frequency could just as easily have been 440Hz if the second was a different length. (which it could easily have been)

So the entire theory falls apart because it all relies on the number 432 and not the actual pitch itself.

A good example of this is the "evidence" put forward by the fact that the moon is 2160 miles in diameter which divided by ten is 216 and doubled is 432. Yet if you used kilometres the moon is 3474 kilometres. Also, the moon is 2159 miles in diameter but it must have annoyed the producer of the video that it was just one mile short of fitting into his crackpot theory.

But all you really need to do is listen to this video point by point to realize that it's complete nonsense.

#15

You'll be telling me the Annunaki don't exist next! Still, got you chatting. No, I don't buy into the video, but it's fun.,

However, how did the guys back then knwo about precession?

However, how did the guys back then knwo about precession?

#16

**theogonia777**Alienate yourself? :-)

#17

However, how did the guys back then knwo about precession?

Because the spinning top is pretty much the oldeset toy ever?

#18

Precisely.12 is the lowest common factor of 2, 3, and 4

60 is the lowest common factor of 2, 3, 4, and 5

That's why those numbers are so commonly used as a base.

#19

Also, the sum of the interior angles of a circle is infinity, or ERROR.

Argument for infinity:

Sum of interior angles of a polygon

-> (n-2)*180 where n= number of sides

-> the area of a polygon that has sides of equal length gets closer to the area of a circle the more sides it has

-> You can always add more sides to the polygon and it still won't quite be a circle but it will keep getting closer and closer

-> for our purposes then we could view the circle as an equilateral polygon with an infinite number of sides

-> (infinity-2)*180 = infinity

Of course the circle isn't actually a polygon because it doesn't have sides. Therefore the 'n' in the equation doesn't exist.

-> (n-2)*180 = n does not exist. It's not 0, it simply doesn't apply. It's nonsense. The result is a logical Error.

And to say that 432 is in the same "numerical neighbourhood" as 180 270 360 and 540?? WTF does that even mean? The same numerical neighbourhood!! Hahaha.

For people looking for a secret mathematical key to the universe they don't know much about mathematics haha!!!

However, there are arguments for the primacy of 432Hz tuning that don't rely on the significance of the number 432. Videos of vibration patterns comparing 432 and 440 that purport to show that the patterns created by 432 as opposed to 440 are clearer and more symmetrical. And then there are arguments that claim some kind of relationship to the frequency of brain waves, or the frequency of the earth's magnetic field or some other nonsense. In such instances though it's comparing frequency with frequency so at least the arbitrary length of the second is irrelevant since they both use the same arbitrary unit of measurement so they are actually comparable.

Argument for infinity:

Sum of interior angles of a polygon

-> (n-2)*180 where n= number of sides

-> the area of a polygon that has sides of equal length gets closer to the area of a circle the more sides it has

-> You can always add more sides to the polygon and it still won't quite be a circle but it will keep getting closer and closer

-> for our purposes then we could view the circle as an equilateral polygon with an infinite number of sides

-> (infinity-2)*180 = infinity

Of course the circle isn't actually a polygon because it doesn't have sides. Therefore the 'n' in the equation doesn't exist.

-> (n-2)*180 = n does not exist. It's not 0, it simply doesn't apply. It's nonsense. The result is a logical Error.

And to say that 432 is in the same "numerical neighbourhood" as 180 270 360 and 540?? WTF does that even mean? The same numerical neighbourhood!! Hahaha.

For people looking for a secret mathematical key to the universe they don't know much about mathematics haha!!!

However, there are arguments for the primacy of 432Hz tuning that don't rely on the significance of the number 432. Videos of vibration patterns comparing 432 and 440 that purport to show that the patterns created by 432 as opposed to 440 are clearer and more symmetrical. And then there are arguments that claim some kind of relationship to the frequency of brain waves, or the frequency of the earth's magnetic field or some other nonsense. In such instances though it's comparing frequency with frequency so at least the arbitrary length of the second is irrelevant since they both use the same arbitrary unit of measurement so they are actually comparable.

#20

**gorkyporky**:-)

#21

MM, 20Tigers ... well thought out responses. Thought you were studying musid, not maths!

#22

Is that so you can be irritatingly sharp of everyone else?

Interestingly enough, only the E notes are tuned to 442.5. 5he other notes vary, with the A notes themselves tuned to 441 and many of the other notes being tuned below 440, including F notes being tuned to 435.5. Better harmonies.

#23

Because the spinning top is pretty much the oldeset toy ever?

Also, ancient cultures tracked celestial movements meticulously for generations. Pretty much every continent has some random giant piece of carved stone that lines up perfectly with the sun on the solstices or equinoxes (or, did line up thousands of years ago).

#24

**cdgraves**Which is one of the points in the above video.

#25

**jongtr**my guess would be to play along with the CD player. If you notice, most finished studio tracks are ever so slightly above 440. My guess is because the speeding up of the track in post production.

#26

There is no natural reason for the length of a second. The actual length of time we call a second is a completely arbitrary determination by human beings that we have all agreed upon for the purpose of convenience.

Well, it's not

*completely*arbitrary - put a finger to your neck artery. ;-)

(I assume the 60 seconds and 60 minutes came from the base they worked with. And well, 60 hour cycles don't make sense to work with so they decided the day was 24h.)

#27

**copperwreck**

It wasn't that long ago when there wasn't an agreed datum for measuring time ... each neighbourhood did their own measurements of the sun's progress. In the UK, it was the railways that standadised time to actually make sensible time tables.

Mind you, they still haven't figured out how to adhere to them!

#28

Well, it's notcompletelyarbitrary - put a finger to your neck artery. ;-)

(I assume the 60 seconds and 60 minutes came from the base they worked with. And well, 60 hour cycles don't make sense to work with so they decided the day was 24h.)

Actually I'd imagine it derives from geometry. Circles are 360º around, and in navigation distances are actually referred to as minutes and seconds.

#29

Actually I'd imagine it derives from geometry. Circles are 360º around, and in navigation distances are actually referred to as minutes and seconds.

I'd assume the other way round - or no relation other than base. The need for measuring time was probably earlier than the need for angles. And I think the nautical stuff is based on the size of the earth and other stuff not known to ancient sumerians (or whoever decided on our minutes/seconds).

#30

Fahrenheit 432 is the temperature new age panpipes burn.

#31

**Declan87**Probably also true of harmonica too ... just apply flame thrower while said equipment is in the player's mouth :-) Actually, do so if there's even a hint of it approaching the mouth.

#32

MM, 20Tigers ... well thought out responses. Thought you were studying musid, not maths!

It's all patterns bro

Did that. It's not a second. 71bpm.Well, it's notcompletelyarbitrary - put a finger to your neck artery. ;-)

(I assume the 60 seconds and 60 minutes came from the base they worked with. And well, 60 hour cycles don't make sense to work with so they decided the day was 24h.)

Even if they used a heart beat to determine the length of a second, which is quite likely, it's still a completely arbitrary span of time from the point of view of a sound wave which is unrelated to the human pulse (and to geometry in the way described in this video).

#33

**20Tigers**Yes ... but you need to differentiate between them sometimes. Even partially :-)

#34

**jerrykramskoy**

Cruel .Declan87Probably also true of harmonica too ... just apply flame thrower while said equipment is in the player's mouth :-) Actually, do so if there's even a hint of it approaching the mouth.

I happen to like harmonica (gob iron, tin sandwich, mississippi saxophone). But then I also like banjo and accordion, so I guess there's no hope for me.

Mind you, there is a limit. And that's the chromatic harmonica... burn baby burn! (Heat distortion could improve it...)

*Last edited by jongtr at Nov 20, 2016,*

#35

But only in one key - or very few.Interestingly enough, only the E notes are tuned to 442.5. 5he other notes vary, with the A notes themselves tuned to 441 and many of the other notes being tuned below 440, including F notes being tuned to 435.5. Better harmonies.

That was the whole point of equal temperament, after all. It puts every key very slightly out of tune, but makes them all equal and saves having to retune every time you change key.

(If your F is tuned low and your A high, you have a rather sharp major 3rd, even further from the "natural" 5:4 than the ET one is. I guess you don't play in F major very much...)

*Last edited by jongtr at Nov 20, 2016,*

#36

But only in one key - or very few.

That was the whole point of equal temperament, after all. It puts every key very slightly out of tune, but makes them all equal and saves having to retune every time you change key.

Nope. I got perfect just intonation (with extra non 12 tone intervals if I want) in all 12 keys and everywhere in between.

#37

Your pulse is a regular 60 bpm all the time? Maybe you should see a doctor... Or maybe you're just lying in bed all the timeWell, it's notcompletelyarbitrary - put a finger to your neck artery. ;-)

Resting pulse rate varies from 60-100, and increases with activity.

#38

Explain?Nope. I got perfect just intonation (with extra non 12 tone intervals if I want) in all 12 keys and everywhere in between.

#39

Ancient Hawaiian secret.

#40

dammit I should have known...Ancient Hawaiian secret.

*Last edited by jongtr at Nov 20, 2016,*

benediktlange.lange

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